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Quote Originally Posted by pandora View Post
You are right about the Jews reasons to wish death upon Jesus, They did see Him as a threat. Yet do you see all Jews thought this way? What of the followers of Jesus... They too were Jews.. They followed Jesus because they believed what He taught. They did not wish their Lord to die, yet knew it was Gods will.
I am concerned now with those who made the action itself, the Jews who disbelieved in Jesus, they were not looking for an atonement, they were actually sinning, so you are treating sin by a sin not by an atonement, which is a flaw in the salvation theory. Those who followed Jesus are not the point now whatever their action is, and of course everything is by God's will, and we are discussing whether this was really God's will or not, because in this case God of Christians who treats sin by another sin is not consistent with God of the Jews who treats sin by an atonement.

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Judas was looked upon as a traitor at the time.. But it is naive to believe that this did not happen unless God willed it so. On that basis we do believe Judas was instrumental in Gods plan if not him then it would have been another. It was a necessity.. someone had to act the betrayer.
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Well, God needn't make a plan, as plans are more concerned with human beings since they may need to think and make tactics, God orders be it becomes.
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Blood atonement was ordained by God in the Old Testament, Jesus was the last blood atonement. You don't accept that, it makes no difference to those who believe it so. The crucifixion was prophesied centuries before Christ came into the world, it happened the way God ordained it to happen.

~ Phil 2:6-8
Of course it wasn't prophesied by Paul :)

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God is the force behind all, nothing happens that is not according to His divine will.. So as Jesus was ever the obedient servant, likewise Judas, the Jews and the Romans who carried out the execution all did the will of God.. Difference being the only one who was conscious of the fact was Christ Jesus Himself.
Which is not consistent with the action of atonement itself, the action is made by the sinner not by the lamb, the sinner is the one who is accounted on his sacrifice, not the lamb is accounted on being sacrificed. God has the will to do everything, but God is consistent with His deeds, and as you said, Jesus is the obedient servant of God, you even make him like Judas, the Jews and the Romans, and at the same time, he is God?!

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I am am sure your article is very good and you have worked hard on it. It does not change the fact that Jesus did die for your sins.. You disbelieving that fact does not make it untrue. Without Jesus you are dead in your sins.
This is what you are believing, and you disbelieving that does not make it true :)