Is Christianity the religion of peace and love or the religion of revenge and terror?

[عثمان أحمد الشيخ]

--- If they ( the father,the word and the Holy Ghost ) were deleted from the Bible because they were not found in the oldest manuscript.That means that someones added them to the Bible purposely to market for' trinity" or to show the legitimacy of trinity .I think there is no other justification for that according to my minor thought.Perhaps your point of view is smarter than mine.
--- The current versions says :
New international reader's version7 There are three that give witness about Jesus. 8 They are the Holy Spirit, the baptism of Jesus and his death. And the three of them agree

New international version
7 For there are three that testify: 8 the[a] Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

New revised Standard version
7 There are three that testify:[b] 8 the Spirit and the water and the blood, and these three agree.

New American Standard Version
7 For there are three that testify: 8 [j]the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are [k]in agreement

2- You always say " God placed us where God wants us to be, " . This saying is not true .It is called in language " The justification with fate and destiny". The theif can say that phrase to justify the theft "God placed me where he wants me to be" " If he wanted me to be honest he would do that"Then he is a theif accoding to the will of God ( God forbid) Also the atheist and the polytheist or the infidel can say that " God placed me where he wants me to be".This is the will of Allah (God fobid ) . Allah does not satisfy infidelity or evil for his slaves. In the past some polytheist said that Justification and Allah did not accept their justification and considered them liars.
148. Those who give partners (to Allah. will say: "If Allah had wished, we should not have given partners to Him nor would Our fathers; nor should we have had any taboos." so did their ancestors argue falsely, until They tasted of Our Wrath. say: "Have ye any (certain) knowledge? if so, produce it before us. ye follow nothing but conjecture: ye do nothing but lie."(6/148)
-- Allah also says "7. If ye reject ((Allah)), truly Allah hath no need of you; but He liketh not blasphemy from His servants: if ye are grateful, He is pleased with you. no bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another. In the end, to your Lord is your return, when He will Tell you the truth of all that ye did (in This life). for He knoweth well all that is In (men's) hearts.(39/7) Thank you dear Pandora.

to be continued

[pandora]

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--- If they ( the father,the word and the Holy Ghost ) were deleted from the Bible because they were not found in the oldest manuscript.That means that someones added them to the Bible purposely to market for' trinity" or to show the legitimacy of trinity .I think there is no other justification for that according to my minor thought.Perhaps your point of view is smarter than mine.
--- The current versions says :
New international reader's version7 There are three that give witness about Jesus. 8 They are the Holy Spirit, the baptism of Jesus and his death. And the three of them agree

New international version
7 For there are three that testify: 8 the[a] Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

New revised Standard version
7 There are three that testify:[b] 8 the Spirit and the water and the blood, and these three agree.

New American Standard Version
7 For there are three that testify: 8 [j]the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are [k]in agreement

Its not about deletion it's about interpretation. The Spirit and the water and the blood refers to the concept of the trinity. At least this is from my understanding. I am not a theologian so my view is from a lay person. I expect you will find my answer on this unsatisfactory but I'm afraid it is all I have as far as my knowledge goes.

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2- You always say " God placed us where God wants us to be, " . This saying is not true .It is called in language " The justification with fate and destiny". The theif can say that phrase to justify the theft "God placed me where he wants me to be" " If he wanted me to be honest he would do that"Then he is a theif accoding to the will of God ( God forbid) Also the atheist and the polytheist or the infidel can say that " God placed me where he wants me to be".This is the will of Allah (God fobid ) . Allah does not satisfy infidelity or evil for his slaves. In the past some polytheist said that Justification and Allah did not accept their justification and considered them liars.

I see what you mean, and of course anyone can make this claim... Like they also say "the devil made me do it" well, of course it is easy to "blame" another rather than take responsibility for ones actions. But I did not mean it like that. God places people where He wishes them to be when it comes to knowledge and understanding of Him and how we fit within His family. God gives us free will to choose how best to achieve that. An atheist, polytheist or infidel !!! Can say such but as they lack faith in God then their words are empty and mean nothing. God abhors evil this is obvious. God does not act against His nature and therefore will not guide people astray. Christians are not slaves, we are children of God, humble servants but never slaves. How do you know what Allah accepts as justification or who he considers liars?

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148. Those who give partners (to Allah. will say: "If Allah had wished, we should not have given partners to Him nor would Our fathers; nor should we have had any taboos." so did their ancestors argue falsely, until They tasted of Our Wrath. say: "Have ye any (certain) knowledge? if so, produce it before us. ye follow nothing but conjecture: ye do nothing but lie."(6/148)
-- Allah also says "7. If ye reject ((Allah)), truly Allah hath no need of you; but He liketh not blasphemy from His servants: if ye are grateful, He is pleased with you. no bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another. In the end, to your Lord is your return, when He will Tell you the truth of all that ye did (in This life). for He knoweth well all that is In (men's) hearts.(39/7) Thank you dear Pandora.

to be continued

Yes, I will concur and agree that God knows well what is in our hearts, there is no hiding. I am not afraid.
May God bless you and continue to guide you.

[عثمان أحمد الشيخ]

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Here you misunderstand. When Exodus states God "rested" it does not mean God had exhausted His energy, that is a ridiculous notion. The day of rest, as the verse states refers to the Sabbath.

Dear Pandora,
-- The text is clear but I will leave that with the explanation of St. Augustine who said :" the rest is the rest of those who rest in Allah". But who changed the word of God "Saturday" by "Sunday" (Human or God)

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No, the image of the prophets is accurate and true. There is nothing shameful in an accurate portrayal of a man if it shows his strengths and weaknesses. For that's what they were, the prophets.... Men and women, human

-- This interpretation is comman between all Christians.If you want to choose a teacher to teach your children boys and girls , will you choose any one ? or there must be certain qualities? such as respect , good manners,patience , science and good dressing.He will be a model to your Children. Do you as a human (who has limited knowledge) use your mind , wisdom and intelligence to choose a teacher and The Almighty Allah who is full of wisdom and knowledge ,who is well acpuainted with all things choose fornicated prophets to guide people to Allah and be models to all people.Is that logical ?. Are not there humans who are righteous,pure and pious in that world.? Yes , humans commit sins but messengers and prophets never commit high sins as killing, theft or adultery .So we deny all thses dirty things on prophets and messengers. In fact you give infallibility to priests and and deny it for prophets and messengers.!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will complete in another message.

to be contiued

[pandora]

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Dear Pandora,
-- The text is clear but I will leave that with the explanation of St. Augustine who said :" the rest is the rest of those who rest in Allah". But who changed the word of God "Saturday" by "Sunday" (Human or God)

I should maybe wait for your next post, however I will respond thus far.

Where did God state which day was to be the sabbath? God says six days we work on the seventh it is reserved for God. Most Christians equate "Lord's Day" ( Sunday) with "Sabbath", this is kept in commemoration of the resurrection of Christ, it is often celebrated with the Eucharist. For many it is the day of rest, and of communal worship in remembrance of Resurrection Day. The sabbath for Jews begins on Friday and ends on Saturday, generally thought of as the last day of the week. Sunday being considered both the first day and the last. Do muslims observe a sabbath? If so what day? Friday? In a period of seven days one of those days is to be observed as the sabbath.. Which is totally reserved for God. As to who decided which day it is to be is immaterial the main issue is that we reserve one day out of seven as a sabbath.

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-- This

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interpretation is comman between all Christians.If you want to choose a teacher to teach your children boys and girls , will you choose any one ? or there must be certain qualities? such as respect , good manners,patience , science and good dressing.He will be a model to your Children. Do you as a human (who has limited knowledge) use your mind , wisdom and intelligence to choose a teacher and The Almighty Allah who is full of wisdom and knowledge ,who is well acpuainted with all things choose fornicated prophets to guide people to Allah and be models to all people.Is that logical ?. Are not there humans who are righteous,pure and pious in that world.? Yes , humans commit sins but messengers and prophets never commit high sins as killing, theft or adultery .So we deny all thses dirty things on prophets and messengers. In fact you give infallibility to priests and and deny it for prophets and messengers.!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will complete in another message.

to be contiued

Dirty things!!!! What do you mean by this? Human nature...? Are prophets considered to be more than human then? What do you mean by high sins please? A sin is a sin before a Holy God, there are no big sin or small sin .. Only sin.. And all sin is an affront to God.

Outward appearance of good manners, patience, nice clothes and kind demeanour are not evidence of a pious person. Do not forget satan is the master of deception and lies... Satan can easily masquerade as a paragon of virtue to achieve his aim. You are of course free to see the prophets as somehow super human and above all temptation, but that view can not be real, as if they are human then they are prone to sin and you ignore that to your own peril.

Priests are men, as such they are sinners. Where on earth do you get the idea that they are infallible? They are not, they are human so cannot be infallible. They have never been viewed as such. The only sinless person to ever walk the earth Christians will recognise is Jesus. The Quran agrees that Jesus was without sin does it not? Every other being from Adam onwards with the exception of Jesus is a sinner and in need of Gods redemption.

Maybe we view sin differently.

peace to you.

[عثمان أحمد الشيخ]

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Its not about deletion it's about interpretation. The Spirit and the water and the blood refers to the concept of the trinity.

what is the relationship between (the spirit –the water –the blood) and (the father-the son-the holy spirit).Who do you worship the father or the son or the Holy spirit ?

[عثمان أحمد الشيخ]

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We use the term children of God because those saved through Jesus and accept the in dwelling of the Holy Spirit thus becoming part of the living Gospel of Christ Jesus become children of God.

--- You are the child of God .Of course it is not a physical union it is a metaphorically union . Is there any third union? of course no. Then all people are sons of God metaphorically.Why do you make Jesus (pbuh) God although he never claim that. You said Adam was created but Jesus was born .What about those who was called "son of God" or "sons of God " and were born from a woman as Jesus . Why do not you call them Gods ?.What about those who called "sons of God " and was born from God ?
*And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.(Luk 1/35)
*Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.(John 1 3/9)
*Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.(Joh 5/1)
-- What is the relationship between Jesus and Allah. Is he God equals the father? Is the Holy Spirit God also.Is Jesus the Holy Sprit or he is the father.Are they a family as one of the priests said? .What is task of every God? Please teach me if you can.Who do you worship the father or the son or the holy spirit ?

[pandora]

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--- You are the child of God .Of course it is not a physical union it is a metaphorically union . Is there any third union? of course no. Then all people are sons of God metaphorically.Why do you make Jesus (pbuh) God although he never claim that. You said Adam was created but Jesus was born .What about those who was called "son of God" or "sons of God " and were born from a woman as Jesus . Why do not you call them Gods ?.What about those who called "sons of God " and was born from God ?
*And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.(Luk 1/35)
*Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.(John 1 3/9)
*Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.(Joh 5/1)

My friend, I already explained what the unique son ship of Jesus means to Christians, I also gave you a link for further elaboration. I humbly request you read the parable from Jesus taught and tell me what you infer from it...

'A man planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a pit for the winepress and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and went away on a journey. At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenants to collect from them some of the fruit of the vineyard. But they seized him, beat him and sent him away empty-handed. Then he sent another servant to them; they struck this man on the head and treated him shamefully. He sent still another, and that one they killed. He sent many others; some of them they beat, others they killed. He had one left to send, a son, whom he loved. He sent him last of all, saying, 'They will respect my son.' But the tenants said to one another, 'This is the heir. Come, let's kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.' So they took him and killed him, and threw him out of the vineyard. What then will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others. Haven't you read this scripture: 'The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes?' Then they looked for a way to arrest him because they knew he had spoken the parable against them. But they were afraid of the crowd; so they left him and went away.' (Mark 12:1-12)

Maybe this link will explain Christianity better than I am obviously doing..

http://christianityexplained.net/exp...uslims/12.html

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-- What is the relationship between Jesus and Allah. Is he God equals the father? Is the Holy Spirit God also.Is Jesus the Holy Sprit or he is the father.Are they a family as one of the priests said? .What is task of every God? Please teach me if you can.Who do you worship the father or the son or the holy spirit ?

I feel you already know my answer here, which would necessitate a discussion on the triune concept of God and as muslims are unable to grasp this concept I see very little point in entering such dialogue as it will lead no where. You know God has no equal.. So why would you say such? Christians believe that God, His Word and His Spirit exist in loving community. There is no task for every god... As there is only ONE GOD.. God the father is the creator and divine power, His word and His Spirit both of which He uses to commune with mankind are of God and as such do not act independently of Gods divine will. I really can't make it any clearer and really have no wish to teach you anything you are not wanting or needing to know, as a Muslim it should not impact upon your person at all how a Christian knows God. You just need to understand that it is how God has chosen to reveal Himself to us. You have chosen not to believe what Jesus said about Himself and have refused His gift, that is a choice you make and the consequences of which you will reap upon yourself. It will not impact upon my person. Yet I do wish for you to achieve redemption and pray your soul will also find peace.

A Christians first prayer of the day starts thus....

Our Father, which art in heaven, hallowed be your name....

Who do you think we pray to????

Im tired and frustrated that my posts take so long to appear on the forum, whereas the posts of other members don't seem to take so long to "vet". I have been here long enough for people to realise I do not wish to cause dissent, I would never knowingly cause offence and if I did offend anyone I would sincerely apologise. It is not in my nature to use foul language and I always strive to be polite and respectful.
I guess I may be just getting tired..

Peace and blessings to you.

[عثمان أحمد الشيخ]

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Where did God state which day was to be the sabbath? God says six days we work on the seventh it is reserved for God. Most Christians equate "Lord's Day" ( Sunday) with "Sabbath", this is kept in commemoration of the resurrection of Christ, it is often celebrated with the Eucharist. For many it is the day of rest, and of communal worship in remembrance of Resurrection Day.

-- God imposed Saturday as a day of rest and forbidden to work in it. God sanctified that day. The word "Saturday " is repeated in the Old Testament and in the Old Testament 94 times . But it was written "Sabbath" in the English version . It was known that it means "Saturday" till now . God said in the Bible :
See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.(Exo 16/29)
Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.(Exo31/14)
12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
13 Six days thou shalt labor, and do all thy work:
14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son,(Deu 5/12-14)
-- The Christ adopted that day also because he said :" Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.(Mat 5/17) and that is found in the New Testament.

[عثمان أحمد الشيخ]

Dear Pandora,

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Please do not imply that we see "son" as actual. This is blasphemy... And I am not happy with that. I do not understand why the Quran seemingly misrepresents Jesus as son of God, and implies a physical union. Which is abhorrent to Christians.

--- I did not say that it is a physical union. Please tell me .How do you understand the phrase " son of God".What does that mean?.I said that any one that is righteous, devout and pious is called that he was born in Allah and is called " the son of God" . You do not accept that .What you accept? Why do Christians consider him a God although the Book says that no one had seen God and no one has heard his voice?.What about all people that were called " sons of God" Are they all Gods ? . Turst me I do not want to make you angry. Only I want to understand. Religions based on logic and mind. I do not accept something that contradict with mind and logic.Thank you and may Allah guide me and you to the straight way.

[pandora]

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Dear Pandora,

--- I did not say that it is a physical union. Please tell me .How do you understand the phrase " son of God".What does that mean?.I said that any one that is righteous, devout and pious is called that he was born in Allah and is called " the son of God" . You do not accept that .What you accept? Why do Christians consider him a God although the Book says that no one had seen God and no one has heard his voice?.What about all people that were called " sons of God" Are they all Gods ? . Turst me I do not want to make you angry. Only I want to understand. Religions based on logic and mind. I do not accept something that contradict with mind and logic.Thank you and may Allah guide me and you to the straight way.

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Why do Christians consider him a God

Dear friend, please stop this nonsense and don't say such things. Jesus was never viewed as A god by any Christian ever. The fact that you continue with this fallacy despite being told time and time again that Christians believe in ONE God, that is YHWH, God of the Bible and all the prophets, means I am failing here to explain things clearly enough, may hap the fault is mine and my linguistic skills are not up to the task, or maybe you cannot allow yourself to understand this fact.

What are you talking about? ... I don't accept that we are all sons of God and indeed nations were also sons of God.. Where did I say I do not accept this? I stated there are many instances of the term son of God used in the Bible referring to many if not all believers in the One God. I also stated that we see a case for the UNIQUE son ship of Jesus in the Bible. I also attached some links which I thought would explain better than I could.. As obviously I was not clear enough. I will attach some more in the hope that you may read them and it will clarify things better than I am able to do.

http://www.icr.org/home/resources/re...lybegottenson/

http://www.arabicbible.com/for-musli...r-muslims.html

http://christianityexplained.net/exp...uslims/12.html

And friend, you do never make me angry. Do not think that. You stick with your logic, if you believe God can be found within the bounds of human logic, then I am happy for you. Personally I believe God is far greater than we can ever know apart from how He chooses to reveal Himself to us in ways we can understand.

Peace upon you.