نسف التلموديات فى القرآن : يعقوب عليه السلام

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نسف التلموديات فى القرآن : يعقوب عليه السلام

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الموضوع: نسف التلموديات فى القرآن : يعقوب عليه السلام

العرض المتطور

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    افتراضي

    و كالمعتاد يقوم الملاحدة و النصارى بالنقل من كتاب أساطير اليهود دون أن يكلفوا أنفسهم بالبحث عن مصدر كتاب أساطير اليهود و دون أن يتأكدوا هل مصادره قبل أم بعد الإسلام ؟

    عموما بالفعل ما نقله الملحد موجود فى كتاب أساطير اليهود على الرابط التالى
    http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/loj/loj203.htm

    و ها هو النص بالفعل

    The accident made Jacob apprehensive that his sons were not pious enough to be considered worthy of the revelation concerning the Messianic era, and he said to them, "Ishmael and the sons of Keturah were the blemished among the issue of my grandfather Abraham; my father Isaac begot a blemished issue in Esau, and I fear now that among you, too, there is one that harbors the intention to serve idols." The twelve men spake, and said: "Hear, O Israel, our father, the Eternal our God is the One Only God. As thy heart is one and united in avouching the Holy One, blessed be He, to be thy God, so also are our hearts one and united in avouching Him." Whereto Jacob responded, "Praised be the Name of the glory of His majesty forever and ever!" And although the whole mystery of the Messianic time was not communicated to the sons of Jacob, yet the blessing of each contained some reference to the events of the future

    و ترجمتهم له ترجمة أمينة بالفعل
    لكن لمعرفة من أين نقل لويس جنزبرج تلك القصة فى كتابه نعود للموسوعة اليهودية

    نقلا عن الرابط التالى :
    http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/ar...jacob#anchor12

    و هو رابط للموسوعة اليهودية يتحدث عن يعقوب عليه السلام
    و يعنينا الجزء الخاص بوفاته عليه السلام

    His Death.
    Jacob gave three commandments to his children before his death: (1) that they should not worship idols; (2) that they should not blaspheme the name of God; and (3) that they should not permit a pagan to touch his hearse. Three of his sons were to be stationed on each side of the coffin even as the tribes were later stationed in the wilderness. The Rabbis looked with disfavor upon Joseph's order to have his father embalmed; for to them it manifested a lack of faith in the providence of God.
    When Jacob's sons reached the cave of Machpelah, they found Esau there prepared to prevent them from interring their father's body in the ancestral cave, and claiming that the place belonged to him. Jacob, however, had foreseen such a complication, and had previously bought the place from Esau; but the deed of sale was in Egypt, and there was nothing to do but to send some one back to Egypt to procure the document. Naphtali, the swift, volunteered to go, but Hushim, the son of Dan, who was hard of hearing, meanwhile inquired about the delay. When told the reason he said angrily, "Shall my grandfather's body lie and wait until the deed is obtained from Egypt?" and threw a missile at Esau so that his eyes fell out on the knees of Jacob, who opened his eyes and smiled. Then it was that Rebekah's words, "Why should I be bereft of both of you in one day?" (Gen. xxvii. 45) were fulfilled (Yalḳ., Gen. 162; "Sefer ha-Yashar," section "Wayeḥi"; comp. Soṭah 13a). Another opinion is that Jacob had not died, although the embalmers and the mourners thought that he was dead (Ta'an. 5b; Rashi and MahrShA, ad loc.; comp. B. B. 17a, 121b). See Esau; Joseph; Patriarchs.

    و كما نرى فالموسوعة اليهودية تؤكد على أن يعقوب عليه السلام أوصى عند وفاته أبناءه ألا يعبدوا إلا الله سبحانه و تعالى ثم تروى أمور أخرى متعلقة بوفاته يرويها أهل الكتاب و موقفنا منها واضح هو أننا لا نجزم بصحتها و لا نجزم بخطئها

    المهم الموسوعة اليهودية تحدد ثلاث مصادر هجادية لقصة وفاة يعقوب عليه السلام هى :

    (Yalḳ., Gen. 162; "Sefer ha-Yashar," section "Wayeḥi"; comp. Soṭah 13a).
    أولا :
    التلمود : سوتاه 13 -أ
    Sotah 13a

    ثانيا : سفر ياشر
    ثالثا : مدراش يالكوت
    ( يا أيها الناس اتقوا ربكم الذي خلقكم من نفس واحدة )
    ثم وصف تعالى ذكره نفسه بأنه المتوحد بخلق جميع الأنام من شخص واحد ، معرفا عباده كيف كان مبتدأ إنشائه ذلك من النفس الواحدة ، ومنبههم بذلك على أن جميعهم بنو رجل واحد وأم واحدة وأن بعضهم من بعض ، وأن حق بعضهم على بعض واجب وجوب حق الأخ على أخيه ، لاجتماعهم في النسب إلى أب واحد وأم واحدة وأن الذي يلزمهم من رعاية بعضهم حق بعض ، وإن بعد التلاقي في النسب إلى الأب الجامع بينهم ، مثل الذي يلزمهم من ذلك في النسب الأدنى وعاطفا بذلك بعضهم على بعض ، ليتناصفوا ولا يتظالموا ، وليبذل القوي من نفسه للضعيف حقه بالمعروف على ما ألزمه الله له (تفسير الطبرى)

  2. #2
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    افتراضي

    و بالرجوع إلى التلمود Sotah 13-a
    على الرابط التالى
    http://www.come-and-hear.com/sotah/sotah_13.html

    تبين أنه يقص قصة دفن يعقوب عليه السلام و لا يتطرق إلى وصيته

    و ننقل الفصل التلمودى لأهميته بالنسبة للرد و ليتأكد الجميع من خلوه من الوصية :

    اقتباس
    Babylonian Talmud: Tractate Sotah


    Folio 13a

    and said: 'My mother will bear a son who will be the saviour of Israel'. When Moses was born, the whole house was filled with light; and her father arose and kissed her upon her head, saying 'My daughter, thy prophecy has been fulfilled'; but when they cast him into the river, her father arose and smacked her upon her head, saying: 'Where, now, is thy prophecy!' That is what is written: And his sister stood afar off to know what would be done to him1 — what would be the fate of her prophecy.

    JOSEPH EARNED MERIT etc. Why the difference that first it is written: And Joseph went up to bury his father, and with him went up all the servants of Pharaoh etc.,2 followed by, And all the house of Joseph, and his brethren, and his father's house,3 and in the sequel it is written: And Joseph returned into Egypt, he and his brethren,4 followed by, And all that went up with him to bury his father? — R. Johanan said: At first, before [the servants of Pharaoh] beheld the glory of the Israelites, they did not treat them with respect;5 but in the sequel, when they beheld their glory, they treated them with respect. For it is written: And they came to the threshing-floor of Atad;6 but is there a threshing-floor for brambles? — R. Abbahu said: It teaches that they surrounded Jacob's coffin with crowns like a threshing-floor which is surrounded with a hedge of brambles, because the sons of Esau, of Ishmael and of Keturah also came. A Tanna taught: They all came to wage war [against the Israelites]; but when they saw Joseph's crown hanging upon Jacob's coffin, they all took their crowns and hung them upon his coffin. A Tanna taught: Sixty-three crowns were hung upon Jacob's coffin.
    And there they lamented with a very great and sore lamentation.7 It has been taught: Even the horses and asses [joined in the lamentation]. When [the cortege] arrived at the Cave of Machpelah, Esau came and wished to prevent [the interment there], saying to them, Mamre, Kiriath-arba, the same is Hebron8 — now R. Isaac has said: Kiriath-arba [is so called] because four couples [were buried there], viz. Adam and Eve, Abraham and Sarah, Isaac and Rebekah, and Jacob and Leah — [Jacob] had buried Leah in his portion and what remains belongs to me'. They replied to him, 'Thou didst sell it'. He said to them, 'Granted that I sold my birth-right, but did I sell my plain heir's right!' They replied: 'Yes, for it is written: In my grave which I [Jacob] have digged for me',9 and R. Johanan has said in the name of R. Simeon b. Jehozadak: The word kirah [dig] means nothing else than 'sale' [mekirah], and thus in the coast-towns they use kirah as a term for 'sale'. — He said to them, 'Produce a document [of sale] for me'. They replied to him, 'The document is in the land of Egypt. Who will go for it? Let Naphtali go, because he is swift as a hind'; for it is written: Naphtali is a hind let loose, he giveth goodly words10 — R. Abbahu said: Read not 'goodly words' [imre shefer] but imre sefer [words of a document]. Among those present was Hushim, a son of Dan, who was hard of hearing; so he asked them, 'What is happening?' They said to him, '[Esau] is preventing [the burial] until Naphtali returns from the land of Egypt'. He retorted: 'Is my grandfather to lie there in contempt until Naphtali returns from the land of Egypt!' He took a club and struck [Esau] on the head so that his eyes fell out and rolled to the feet of Jacob. Jacob opened his eyes and laughed; and that is what is written: The righteous shall rejoice when he seeth the vengeance; he shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked.11 At that time was the prophecy of Rebekah fulfilled, as it is written: Why should I be bereaved of you both in one day?12 Although the death of the two of them did not occur on the one day, still their burial took place on the same day. — But if Joseph had not occupied himself with [Jacob's burial], would not his brethren have occupied themselves with it? Behold it is written: For his sons carried him into the land of Canaan!13 — They said [among themselves], 'Leave him [to conduct the interment]; for the honour [of our father] will be greater [when it is conducted] by kings than by commoners'.
    WHOM HAVE WE GREATER THAN JOSEPH etc.? Our Rabbis have taught: Come and see how beloved were the commandments by Moses our teacher; for whereas all the Israelites occupied themselves with the spoil, he occupied himself with the commandments, as it is said: The wise in heart will receive commandments etc.14 But whence did Moses know the place where Joseph was buried? — It is related that Serah, daughter of Asher, was a survivor of that generation. Moses went to her and asked: 'Dost thou know where Joseph was buried?' She answered him, 'The Egyptians made a metal coffin for him which they fixed in the river Nile so that its waters should be blessed'. Moses went and stood on the bank of the Nile and exclaimed: 'Joseph, Joseph! the time has arrived which the Holy One, blessed be He, swore, "I will deliver you", and the oath which thou didst impose upon the Israelites15 has reached [the time of fulfilment]; if thou wilt shew thyself, well and good; otherwise, behold, we are free of thine oath'. Immediately Joseph's coffin floated [on the surface of the water]. Be not astonished that iron should float; for, behold, it is written: As one was felling a beam, the axe-head fell into the water etc. Alas, my master, for it was borrowed. And the man of God said: Where fell it? And he shewed him the place. And he cut down a stick and cast it in thither, and made the iron to swim.16 Now cannot the matter be argued by a fortiori reasoning — if iron floated on account of Elisha who was the disciple of Elijah who was the disciple of Moses, how much more so on account of Moses our teacher! R. Nathan says: He was buried in the sepulchre of the kings; and Moses went and stood by the sepulchre of the kings and exclaimed. 'Joseph! the time has arrived which the Holy One, blessed be He, swore "I will deliver you", and the oath which thou didst impose upon the Israelites has reached [the time of fulfilment]; if thou wilt shew thyself, well and good; otherwise, behold, we are free of thine oath'. At that moment, Joseph's coffin shook, and Moses took it and carried it with him. All those years that the Israelites were in the wilderness, those two chests, one of the dead and the other of the Shechinah,17 proceeded side by side, and passersby used to ask: 'What is the nature of those two chests?' They received the reply: 'One is of the dead and the other of the Shechinah'. 'But is it, then, the way of the dead to proceed with the Shechinah?' They were told,
    Original footnotes renumbered. See Structure of the Talmud FilesIbid. II, 4.
    Gen. L, 7.
    Gen. L, 8.
    Ibid. 14. The order of the procession is now reversed.
    And proceeded in front of them.
    Ibid. 10. As a common noun 'atad' means 'brambles'.
    Gen. L, 10.
    Ibid. XXXV, 27. Kiriath — 'arba is literally 'the burial of four'. He claimed that only four couples were to be buried there, and demanded the one remaining sepulchre for himself. The explanatory remark of R. Isaac is interpolated into Esau's words.
    Ibid. L, 5.
    Gen. XLIX, 21.
    Ps. LVIII, 11.
    Gen. XXVII, 45.
    Ibid. L, 13. It is not stated that Joseph did this.
    Prov. X, 8.
    To carry Joseph's bones out of Egypt (Exod. XIII, 19).
    II Kings VI, 5f.
    Aron means in Hebrew both an ark and a coffin. It here refers to the Ark of the Covenant.
    ( يا أيها الناس اتقوا ربكم الذي خلقكم من نفس واحدة )
    ثم وصف تعالى ذكره نفسه بأنه المتوحد بخلق جميع الأنام من شخص واحد ، معرفا عباده كيف كان مبتدأ إنشائه ذلك من النفس الواحدة ، ومنبههم بذلك على أن جميعهم بنو رجل واحد وأم واحدة وأن بعضهم من بعض ، وأن حق بعضهم على بعض واجب وجوب حق الأخ على أخيه ، لاجتماعهم في النسب إلى أب واحد وأم واحدة وأن الذي يلزمهم من رعاية بعضهم حق بعض ، وإن بعد التلاقي في النسب إلى الأب الجامع بينهم ، مثل الذي يلزمهم من ذلك في النسب الأدنى وعاطفا بذلك بعضهم على بعض ، ليتناصفوا ولا يتظالموا ، وليبذل القوي من نفسه للضعيف حقه بالمعروف على ما ألزمه الله له (تفسير الطبرى)

  3. #3
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    افتراضي

    بالرجوع إلى المصدر الثانى : سفر ياشر

    تبين أن فيه بالفعل وصية يعقوب عليه السلام فى الفصل 56
    على الرابط التالى :

    http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/apo/jasher/56.htm


    4 And Jacob made his sons swear to bury him in Machpelah, in Hebron, and his sons swore unto him concerning this thing.
    5 And he commanded them, saying, Serve the Lord your God, for he who delivered your fathers will also deliver you from all trouble.

    الترجمة :

    و جعل يعقوب أبناءه يقسمون أنهم سيدفنونه فى ماخبيلا فى حبرون , و أقسم أبناؤه أنهم سيفعلون
    و أمرهم قائلا اعبدوا الرب إلهكم فهو من خلص آباءكم و هو من سيخلصكم من كل البلايا

    و عموما لو أردنا معرفة تاريخ كتابة سفر ياشر فعلينا الرجوع إلى الويكبيديا
    على الرابط التالى :
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sefer_haYashar_(midrash)

    و هو رابط يتحدث عن سفر ياشر
    و بخصوص تاريخ كتابته :

    This work is not to be confused with an ethical text by the same name, which, according to the Encyclopaedia Judaica, Volume 14, p. 1099, was "probably written in the 13th century." Scholars have proposed various dates between the 9th century and 16th century.

    الترجمة :

    لا ينبغى الخلط بين هذا العمل و نص آخر يحمل نفس الاسم , و قد تمت كتابته طبقا للموسوعة اليهودية المجلد 14 ص 1099 على الراجح فى القرن الثالث عشر . الباحثون اقترحوا تواريخ مختلفة من القرن التاسع و حتى السادس عشر .

    أى أن سفر ياشر كتب بعد الإسلام
    ( يا أيها الناس اتقوا ربكم الذي خلقكم من نفس واحدة )
    ثم وصف تعالى ذكره نفسه بأنه المتوحد بخلق جميع الأنام من شخص واحد ، معرفا عباده كيف كان مبتدأ إنشائه ذلك من النفس الواحدة ، ومنبههم بذلك على أن جميعهم بنو رجل واحد وأم واحدة وأن بعضهم من بعض ، وأن حق بعضهم على بعض واجب وجوب حق الأخ على أخيه ، لاجتماعهم في النسب إلى أب واحد وأم واحدة وأن الذي يلزمهم من رعاية بعضهم حق بعض ، وإن بعد التلاقي في النسب إلى الأب الجامع بينهم ، مثل الذي يلزمهم من ذلك في النسب الأدنى وعاطفا بذلك بعضهم على بعض ، ليتناصفوا ولا يتظالموا ، وليبذل القوي من نفسه للضعيف حقه بالمعروف على ما ألزمه الله له (تفسير الطبرى)

  4. #4
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    افتراضي

    بالنسبة للمصدر الثالث فهو مدراش يالكوت
    و سواء وردت فيه وصية يعقوب عليه السلام أو لم ترد
    هو كتب بعد الإسلام

    بالرجوع إلى الموسوعة اليهودية
    http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/ar...yalkut#anchor4

    و الرابط يتحدث عن مدراش يالكوت
    نجد التالى :

    Author and Date.
    The author of the Yalḳuṭ can not be determined with certainty. The title-page of the Venice edition ascribes the composition of the work to R. Simeon of Frankfort, "the chief of exegetes" ("rosh ha-darshanim"), and this was accepted by Conforte and Azulai, who called him Simeon Ashkenazi of Frankfort. Rapoport (in "Kerem Ḥemed," vii. 7 et seq.), on the other hand, maintained that R. Simeon (the father of R. Joseph Ḳara), who flourished in the eleventh century, was its author; but this assertion is untenable since the compiler of the Yalḳuṭ used midrashim of a later date. If the Yalḳuṭ was so old, moreover, it would be difficult to explain why no mention of it is made by R. Nathan b. Jehiel, the author of the "'Aruk," or by Rashi. All the proofs advanced by Rapoport have been refuted by Epstein, who inclines to agree with Zunz that the author of the Yalḳuṭ flourished in the early part of the thirteenth century. According to Zunz, the work was written by R. Simeon Ḳara, who lived in southern Germany at that period, and the title "ha-Darshan" was bestowed upon him probably at a later date. It is certain that a manuscript of the Yalḳuṭ, mentioned by Azariah dei Rossi, existed in 1310 (comp. Zunz, "G. V." pp. 295-303); but despite this, there is scarcely any allusion to the work during the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries. This may be ascribed, however, to the unhappy position of the German Jews and to the repeated persecutions of the period; for peace and prosperity were necessary for the copying of so extensive a work, and the Jews of Germany had neither. After the beginning of the fifteenth century, on the other hand, the work must have been disseminated in foreign countries, for it was used by Spanish scholars of the latter half of that century, Isaac Abravanel being the first to mention it (comp. Epstein, l.c. p. 134).
    و مما سبق يتضح أن مؤلف مدراش يالكوت غير معروف بالتحديد و البعض يرجع تأليفه لأشخاص فى القرن الحادى عشر
    و البعض يرى أنه كتب فى القرن الثالث عشر
    و أقدم مخطوطاته تعود إلى 1310 م
    و لا نجد له آثار فى القرن الرابع عشر
    و يبدو أنه انتشر فى القرن الخامس عشر

    ما يهمنا هو أنه كتب بعد الإسلام بقرون
    ( يا أيها الناس اتقوا ربكم الذي خلقكم من نفس واحدة )
    ثم وصف تعالى ذكره نفسه بأنه المتوحد بخلق جميع الأنام من شخص واحد ، معرفا عباده كيف كان مبتدأ إنشائه ذلك من النفس الواحدة ، ومنبههم بذلك على أن جميعهم بنو رجل واحد وأم واحدة وأن بعضهم من بعض ، وأن حق بعضهم على بعض واجب وجوب حق الأخ على أخيه ، لاجتماعهم في النسب إلى أب واحد وأم واحدة وأن الذي يلزمهم من رعاية بعضهم حق بعض ، وإن بعد التلاقي في النسب إلى الأب الجامع بينهم ، مثل الذي يلزمهم من ذلك في النسب الأدنى وعاطفا بذلك بعضهم على بعض ، ليتناصفوا ولا يتظالموا ، وليبذل القوي من نفسه للضعيف حقه بالمعروف على ما ألزمه الله له (تفسير الطبرى)

نسف التلموديات فى القرآن : يعقوب عليه السلام

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  3. نسف التلموديات فى القرآن : داود عليه السلام
    بواسطة 3abd Arahman في المنتدى الرد على الأباطيل
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  4. نسف التلموديات فى القرآن: نوح عليه السلام
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  5. نسف التلموديات فى القرآن: إبراهيم عليه السلام
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ضوابط المشاركة

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نسف التلموديات فى القرآن : يعقوب عليه السلام

نسف التلموديات فى القرآن : يعقوب عليه السلام