السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته


اقتباس

Thank you brother and I especially want to talk to you about the Trinity concept in Christianity. If you want you can contact me here anytime: ############@hotmail.com.


For sure I'd love to discuss it and all topics u like on its time, but here in this forum , as when we finish the issue of crucifixion - inshaallah - it will be your time to ask about whatever you like in Islam or Christianity. So, there is no need to exchange e-mails . – No, there is a need to exchange e-mails. Hahahaha. By the way have you read my letter in your yahoo account?



اقتباس

John the Baptist's was speaking about the One who is to come, the Messiah/Isa Al Massih. He recognized that Jesus is this Messiah and he called Him "The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world".
-The Scripture explains that Jesus Christ died for our sins: “Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures” (1 Corinthians 15:3b-4).






Dear decent guest, was Jesus a lamb?!!!
I can't accept this description, again I said He was Holy in the Holy Quran and we as Muslims can't accept such description !!! – Brother, the other day I was talking to Muslims and I mentioned you. So, let me tell you why do we call Jesus the Lamb of God. But it will be a long description….I will try to make it brief:
Brothers,
Our respected brother Mohammad Madian said the other day:
God Jesus is our Lamb slain for every one of us!
Any one who believes in these words is a deaf and blind fool,
What a poor god is that who is a lamb that gets slain for the sins of his creatures!!!!!!!! Where is your brains? Where is your common sense?
This is too ridiculous, any one who have some dignity wouldn’t accept these words to be said about his father rather than to be said about his god.
You are completely lost.

Brothers, yes it is funny in some sense that we cannot call our father as the lamb. But we call our God Jesus the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world. And we are proud of that fact. We are proud because the All-knowing God made a decision from the foundation of the world to give His Son to die on the cross instead of the humankind.
Let’s consider today why Jesus was called the Lamb of God.
And why we are proud that He is the Lamb who was slain for everyone of us?
Why our fathers could not be called by this perfect name the Lamb of God?
The title Lamb of God appears the first time in the Gospel of John, with the exclamation of John the Baptist: "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world" in John 1:29, the title reaffirmed the next day in John 1:36.
John 3:16 teaches: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
John the Baptist's was speaking about the One who is to come, the Messiah/Isa Al Massih. He recognized that Jesus is this Messiah and he called Him "The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world".
The Scripture explains that Jesus Christ died for our sins: “Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures” (1 Corinthians 15:3b-4).
But what does it mean that Jesus is the Lamb of God?
The word Lamb in Hebrew is kebhes, "a young ram"; compare Arabic kebsh, "ram".
God said in Isaih 53:4 that a Man/Isa Al Massih "he has borne our griefs,". It means that according to the HOLY words of God, Isa Al Massih took away our sins like before through offerings Israelites were able to be free of their sins according to God’s command.
Hebrews kebhes, a male lamb from the first to the third year were offered God daily at the morning and the evening sacrifice (Exodus 29:38-42), on the Sabbath day (Numbers 28:9), at the feast of the New Moon (28:11), of Trumpets (29:2), of Tabernacles (13-40), of Pentecost (Leviticus 23:18-20), and of the Passover (Exodus 12:5), and on many other occasions (1 Chronicles 29:21; 2 Chronicles 29:21; Leviticus 9:3; 14:10-25).
Thus, the word Lamb/ram is the symbolical language of the Holy Scripture describing that the lamb is the type of meekness and innocence and it was the term used to describe God Jesus.
. God said that without the shedding the blood there is no forgiveness. That’s why Jews should offer to God animal sacrifices to get His forgiveness. The soul that sins should die- God said. But Jesus took away all sin of the world. Jesus knew that He should die. He spoke about it many times. Is it cruel and senseless but God was not the Master of the ceremonies. He did NOT kill His Son Jesus! Unbelievers did it! He just did not protect His Son! Even Jesus was able to protect Himself because He is the Creator of our planet! It was His will and choice to be crushed instead of us. His Father did not spare His Son but gave Him. It pleased the Father to bruise Him (Isaiah 53). How could He be pleased? The Father was pleased by seeing the outcome, redemption, eternal Plan of Salvation in action and millions of the saved Arabs entering the Kingdom of Heaven because of the LOVE of Jesus and His sufferings instead us. According to Isaiah 53, Jesus was the Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. He came to taste the death for every one. He died to show us LOVE of God for you. Remember that He died to absorb the wrath of God. Justice and LOVE have met together and Justice and Mercy have kissed each other. Jesus met the righteous demands of God.
Mercy and truth have met together;
Righteousness and peace have kissed.
Psalm 85:10
He became sin who knew no sin. That’s why we can enter free to the Kingdom of God. Is not about our deserving. You will never be good enough. God is simply loving you and justifying and forgiving. He is taking residence in our heart. That’s why we call Him Ar-Rahman wa ar-Rahim!
So, when we call Jesus the Lamb of God, we refer to Him as the perfect and ultimate sacrifice for sin. In fact, the whole sacrificial system established by God in the Old Testament set the stage for the coming of Jesus Christ, who is the perfect sacrifice God would provide as atonement for the sins of His people. Jesus was “like a lamb led to the slaughter” (Jeremiah 11:19; Isaiah 53:7). That’s why He provided us redemption for the Small Remnant. You can be one of us through your FAITH in Him, REPENTANCE and confession of all your sins. Believe in God Jesus and abandon your sins and your name will be written in the Book of Life.
Brothers, in Revelation 4-5 we can see the scene: the heavenly throne room. After receiving the command to write message of God to the seven churches, John, the disciple of Jesus, is “caught up in the spirit” to the throne room in heaven where he is to receive a series of visions that culminate in the ultimate victory of God Jesus at the end of the age. Revelation 4 shows us the endless praise that God receives from the angels and the 24 elders. Chapter 5 begins with John noticing that there is a scroll in the “right hand of Him/Jesus who was seated on the throne.” The scroll has writing on the inside and is sealed with seven seals. After giving us a description of the scroll, an angel proclaims with a loud voice “Who is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals?” John begins to despair when no one comes forth to answer the angel’s challenge. One of the 24 elders points out that the Lion of the tribe of Judah has come to take and open the scroll. The Lion of the tribe of Judah is obviously a reference to Christ. The image of the lion is meant to convey kingship. Thus, Jesus is not only the slain Lamb but He is worthy to receive and open the scroll because He is the King of kings and hosts.
The Holy Scripture reveals the justice of God in all its glory during the end times. We all will see
God’s righteous judgment upon the inhabitants of the earth for their ultimate sin of rejecting Jesus. And we are promised that someday, when God Jesus will physically reigns on earth, God’s righteous justice will finally be on full display. Read it:
Job 5:23 For you will have a covenant with the stones of the field, and the wild animals will be at peace with you.

Isaiah 2:4 He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore.
Isaiah 65:25 The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, but dust will be the serpent's food. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain," says the LORD.
Ezekiel 34:25 "'I will make a covenant of peace with them and rid the land of wild beasts so that they may live in the desert and sleep in the forests in safety.
Hosea 2:18 In that day I will make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field and the birds of the air and the creatures that move along the ground. Bow and sword and battle I will abolish from the land, so that all may lie down in safety.
What does it mean? The prophet describes the effect of Jesus’ reign in producing peace and tranquility on the earth. The two leading ideas are those of "peace" and "security." The figure is taken from the condition of animals of all descriptions living in a state of harmony, where those which are by nature defenseless, and which are usually made the prey of the strong, are suffered to live in security. By nature the wolf preys upon the lamb, and the leopard upon the kid, and the adder is venomous, and the bear, and the cow, and the lion, and the ox, cannot live together. But if a state of things should arise, where all this hostility would cease and a little child would be safe. The Holy Scripture describes the righteous reign of the Messiah on earth.
God said: "And the wolf dwells with the lamb, and the leopard lies down with the kid; and calf and lion and stalled ox together: a little boy drives them. And cow and bear go to the pasture; their young ones lie down together: and the lion eats shopped straw like the ox. And the suckling plays by the hole of the adder, and the weaned child stretches its hand to the pupil of the basilisk-viper. They will not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the land is filled with knowledge of Jehovah, like the waters covering the sea." Isaiah 11:6
But how long will be the hostility ceased on earth? For 1,000 years.
What happens then? Let me remind you what I said before:
Soon people will witness the perfect reign of God Jesus for 1,000 years on our earth. But however some of them will refuse to believe in Him. He will stop wars and production of arms but they will still desire to destroy His Kingdom. He will not kill them but they will desire to kill Him like before. He will not attack them, but they will gather together again for a war against Him. There will be no weapon in Jerusalem to protect Jesus, His angels and saints. How He is going to defend Himself? He is God. The Almighty, Omnipresent and Omniscient God who created people and all visible and invisible worlds. Will He dwell among us if people do not want to see His presence? He will show them who He is and how righteously He reigns. He was described by the prophets in the Holy Bible and by reading His Holy words said there, we are able to look into His eyes even today. But even by looking at God, people would like to live without God!
How He is going to exist with those who do not want to exist with Him?
He is going to take those, who want to dwell with Him, to a NEW WORLD created by Him….So, it will be a final and great escape to another WORLD soon….Will you be among us? Or do you prefer to be left on our planet which will be destroyed?
Summary: Brothers, when Jesus is referred to as the Lamb, you should remember that He is also the Lion. He is not only the Man. But Almighty God dwelling in the body. He is not only the sacrificial Lamb who took away the reproach of sin from His people but He is the conquering King who will slay the enemies of God by the WORDS of God at His return during the Judgment Day. He is against the war and He is God of Peace and Justice. But His Justice is going to devour His enemies who will be gathered together for the two coming Wars in Jerusalem raping Jewish women according to the prophecies. Will you share in His ultimate victory? Or are you going to see the flames of fire around you?


It was mentioned "the sin" with the definite article "the" and the singular form "sin" which refered to the original sin, but you explained it as "our sins" as you seem that you yourself don't accept the idea of the original sin and you believe that there was no inherited sin, and that is a great beginning ....- Brother, we do not believe in the Original sin which could be inherited by all people. This concept was invented by the Catholic Church and not all Christians belong to this Church. Thus, we disagree with this concept too. Yes, we all are sinners because, according to the first crimes/sin of our father Adam and his wife, the sin entered the world and through sin DEATH. That’s why we all became commit sins. But we do not inherit sins. It is a madness. Even Jesus was holy according to the Scripture and He did not inherit any sins of His mother.

Let's spotlight on "he was buried, that he was raised on the third day"

Let's see if that happened according to the Bible:

M't 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
M't 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Which meant Jesus would stay 3 days & 3 nights in the heart of the earth as Jonas did in the whale!

Jews didn't consider a day is 24 hours as we do, but at them a day starts from the sun rise to the sun set, while the night of the following day starts from the sun set to the sun rise , and for sure you know the night comes before the day. So the night of Sunday is Saturday at night at us.

Let's calculate it starting from the moment Jesus was buried:
He was buried at the night of ٍSaturday
Lu 23:53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
Lu 23:54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.

He Got out before the day of Sunday
M't 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Let's count how many days and nights

The night of Saturday + The Day of Saturday
The Night of Sunday + ????
The Day of Saturday is missing

2 nights & 1 day

2 days + 1 night are missing !!!
But
Let's be more generous and calculate Sunday as Luke's Gosble
M'r 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
So We can Sunday could be included , so it could be as the following:


The night of Saturday + The Day of Saturday
The Night of Sunday + The day of Sunday

2days & 2 nights

1 day + 1 night are missing !!!

Well, can be even more generous and think that jews used to count even a part or the Friday Day, so it could be like this:

The day of Friday + The night of Saturday
The Day of Saturday + The night of Sunday
The Day of Sunday + ????

The night of Monday is missing
1 night is missing !!!

So, the prophecy of Jesus didn't achieved!!!

- Brother, let me answer to this question so:

Wed night...Thursday day / night...Friday day / night...Saturday...day..." And the day and night where 1 day"...3 nights 3 days.. here is something I found that will explain for you what is taught in scriptures, if you have a Jewish Calender in the back of your Bible you will see it clearly.

The Feast of the Passover (a high Sabbath) and the Feast of the Unleavened Bread (another high Sabbath) were celebrated on April 14th and 15th respectively. Sunset initiated the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Nisan 15 was a "high day", a non Saturday Sabbath.

The first month of the Jewish year is the month of Nisan or "Aviv." The name "Aviv" comes from the Hebrew term "Chodesh Ha-Aviv" which means the "the month of Spring." Aviv was the name used for first month of the year before the Babylonian captivity. After the Babylonian captivity it was called "Nisan" or "Nisan".

The day Jesus died was the preparation day (Wednesday) of the Passover celebration on Thursday (John 19:14, 31: "And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the sixth hour: and he (meaning Pilate) saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!" This was the morning of the crucifixion day. Verse 31 states, "The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the Sabbath day, (for that Sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away."

Therefore, Passover (Nisan "Aviv" 14 ) was on Thursday, that year, the Feast of Unleavened Bread began on Friday (seven day feast last to Nisan "Aviv" 21), and the regular weekday Sabbath was on Saturday. Jesus was crucified in the morning on Wednesday and placed in the tomb before 6 P.M. He arose from the grave sometime after 6 P.M. on Saturday, which would be early Sunday morning, the first day of the week, according to Jewish time-keeping. Â This explanation fits Jesus' prophecy in Matthew 12:40 that He would be "three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

This is the only view that fits the biblical account is that Jesus was crucified on Wednesday and buried before 6:00 PM that day. The Jewish day began at 6:00 PM which was the Passover (Nisan "Aviv" 14).

Therefore the Passover began on Wednesday after 6:00 PM which would actually be Thursday in the Julian calendar.

The women brought the spices on Friday, rested on Saturday and went on Sunday morning after 6:00 AM and found the Lord was resurrected. This is the series of events and is accord with Jesus' states of Matthew 12:38-40.Jesus was in the grave three full days and three nights. Any other view violates the biblical account and the historical facts.


Moreover, Jesus wasn't buried in the Heart of the earth , he was buried in a stone of a mountain!!!- In the heart of the earth - The Jews used the word "heart" to denote the "interior" of a thing, or to speak of being in a thing. It means, here, to be in the grave or sepulchre. The expression "in the heart of the earth," suggested by the expression of Jonah with respect to the sea (2:3, in the Septuagint), means simply the grave, but this considered as the most emphatic expression of real and total entombment.
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Who were the witnesses of the story of crucifixion?

4 people who mentioned the story, Luke, Mark, Matthew, John

Mark & Luke did not attend this event , they weren't of his students. What even worse they had never seen him at all.

Matthew & John escaped during the event, as Mark said:
M'r 14:50 And they all forsook him, and fled.

So, Who were the witnesses of the story?!!!
No one !!

Such an issue if it offered to any civilized court, the testimony of these witnesses would be refused at once.!!!!- The Gospel descriptions of the crucifixion appear to be eyewitness accounts.
Gospel of Matthew. According to this gospel, the various witnesses included Roman soldiers, Jewish officials, passersby who mocked Jesus, and two men crucified at the same time. The only reference to followers of Jesus is found in Matthew 27:55-56, which says that many women were "watching from a distance", and specifically names "Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's sons."
Mark 15:40-41 also says that many women watched from a distance and specifically mentions "Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joses, and Salome."
In Luke 23:49, which says that some of them watched from a distance, but doesn't give any names.
Note: If we try to list all the specific individuals mentioned in the various accounts, we get the following result:
1. Mary Magdalene (mentioned by Matthew, Mark, and John)
2. Mary the mother of James and Joses (mentioned by Matthew and Mark)
3. The mother of Zebedee's sons (mentioned by Matthew)
4. Salome (mentioned by Mark) -- Many scholars think that this is the same person as (3), the mother of Zebedee's sons
5. Mary the mother of Jesus (mentioned by John)
6. Mary the wife of Clophas (who was probably Joseph's brother) (mentioned by John)
7. An un-named sister of Jesus' mother (mentioned by John) -- Many scholars think that this is the same person as (6), i.e., the wife of Clophas
8. The un-named Beloved Disciple (mentioned by John)
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Who was risen form the Tomb?
The answer is a Devil or a liar- A good question! But the Scripture which existed before foundation of Islam said that the Messiah should be killed instead of us and buried and accept our sins (read pls the Old Testament, Isaiah 53). Note: God said these words! Not a man! God said these words through a prophet called Isaiah and if we claim that God lied us in this chapter then we just boldly claim that our Allah is a Liar! So, if God clearly said that Isa Al Massih should be buried and killed then if we trust the words of another allah, then HOW we are going to get to the Kingdom of Heaven!!!?

2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.- Yes, let me remind you about convulsions of Muhammad from which he suffered always when angel gave him revelations (Muhammad felt suffering, prrssing on the breast, sound and convulsions…).

M't 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. M't 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
M't:24:25: Behold, I have told you before.
M't 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

No witnesses & Christ himself warned u to believe them& the prophecy was not fulfilled !!! So, do you still accept it?!!!
- Right. There will be many false Messiahs called the anti-christ. The word ‘ani’ could be translated as ‘instead of’. Jesus warned us that we should not believe in them or we will get to hell.

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Was Jesus suitable for redemption?

The answer is No !!!

Because any sacrifice must be physically complete, and if it's not complete or deformed or there is any tiny missing part, it can't be suitable for sacrifice, let's have some examples of such thing:

Le 1:3 If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish


Le 1:10 And if his offering be of the flocks, namely, of the sheep, or of the goats, for a burnt sacrifice; he shall bring it a male without blemish.

Was Jesus physically complete to be suitable for sacrifice?
The Answer is No !!!- Quran called Jesus HOLY. The Bible called Him HOLY. God Himself in Isaiah 53 (the Old Testament) said that He is RIGHTEOUS.

He was circumcised when he was 8 days, to the foreskin was missing !!! So he was not complete!!- Why Jews should be circumcised? Let’s consider it today: But why God said to do circumcision? How did circumcision start in the Bible? According to Genesis, God told Abraham to circumcise himself, his household and his slaves as an everlasting covenant in their flesh. Those who were not circumcised were to be ‘cut off’ from their people (Genesis 17:10-14). Who was to be circumcised?
Abraham, his descendants and those who were bought with their money (Genesis 17:12-13). Also, all the males of a household were to be circumcised if one of them wanted to join in the Passover celebrations (Exodus 12:43-49).
The Passover means Passover from death of sin /slavery of sins to life with God…from sinful life to holy life with God….from slavery of sins to the Kingdom of Heaven.
Thus, the circumcision is just a symbol used by God in the Bible to tell people that to be apart of God’s people/Israel/the saved Church-Ummah who will inherit the Holy Land/The Kingdom of Heaven we should GET RID of our sins which became part of our body though our SINS. So, Cut away your sins, get RID of them through BLOOD (symbol of Jesus’ blood shed on the cross) and YOU can be a part of the chosen people of God….Apart of the people chosen for salvation and FUTURE in the Promised Land/The kingdom of Heaven.
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To be continued