A debate between Authentic Man and our decent guest bahiraomar

[Authentic Man]

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He needed holy people and a cursed son?!!!- Yes, right. Jesus was cursed instead of us on the cross. Do you remember a story in the Taurat/Torah when angels came to Lot to save him and the wicked people wanted to rape Lot because of these angels? The biblical account of Sodom and Gomorrah is recorded in Genesis chapters 18-19. Genesis chapter 18 records the Lord and two angels coming to speak with Abraham/Ibrahim. The Lord informed Abraham that "the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous." Verses 22-33 record Abraham pleading with the Lord to have mercy on Sodom and Gomorrah because Abraham's nephew, Lot, and his family lived in Sodom. Lot wanted to protect these angels/ambassadors of God/ and he was ready to give his daughters to these sexual immoral people of Sodom and Gomorrah to rape them instead of angels. Can you give your daughter to rape instead of your friend?

I told you many times that Massih was glorified in the Holy Quran and by Muslims only !!!
I can't accept such a word to my father, so how can I accept it to a Prophet?!!!

There is fatal misunderstanding in the story you mentioned:

the verse:
11|78|And his people came unto him, running towards him and before then they used to commit abominations. He said: O my people! Here are my daughters! They are purer for you. Beware of Allah, and degrade me not in (the person of) my guests. Is there not among you any upright man?

You misunderstand the meaning of " my daughters" the meaning of it is all women who followed him in village, not his biological daughters. Moreover, he didn't offer them to be raped, but to get married to them!!
The verse said " purer " and rape can't be pure, can it?!!!
So, the example you mentioned has nothing to do with the crucifixion!!!
Sorry again !!
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So, the result is Holy people + Cursed God !!!- Right! His righteousness and holiness is imputed to us. By His wounds we are healed and forgiven. That’s why no cursed could harm us! If you would curse us and desire to kill us by the power of curses, you can be sure that no one of these curses will act against us! Jesus made us FREE of any curse.

I can't immagine it!!
You describe him now with "holly" and "cursed" !!!
you disown yourself?!!!

Something else: do curses kill?!!!
How can I harm or kill you by the power of curse?!!
And is there a kind of punishment to this crime if i do?!

What did he set you free from, if you don't worship, repent, and do good deeds, you will be in the hell?

Please my dear guest, be more honest with yourself!
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Brother, my friend killed two people and he cannt even go to masjid anymore because he knows that allah did not forgave these sins according to Islam

Sorry dear, a fatal misunderstanding,again

According to Islam all sins can be forgiven except assuming that He has a partener
4|48|Lo! Allah forgiveth not that a partner should be ascribed unto Him. He forgiveth (all) save that to whom He will. Whoso ascribeth partners to Allah, he hath indeed invented a tremendous sin.

25|68|And those who cry not unto any other god along with Allah, nor take the life which Allah hath forbidden save in (course of) justice, nor commit adultery and whoso doeth this shall pay the penalty; 25|69|The doom will be doubled for him on the Day of Resurrection, and he will abide therein disdained for ever; 25|70|Save him who repenteth and believeth and doth righteous work; as for such, Allah will change their evil deeds to good deeds. Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.

According to Islam, if a killer repents and does good deeds, Allah will exchange this sin to be a good deed.
However, he put very firm punishments to killers to save others' rights and lives.
And in Islam we have what is called blood money given to the victim's family and aslave must be set free, or fasting 60 days

4|92|It is not for a believer to kill a believer unless (it be) by mistake. He who hath killed a believer by mistake must set free a believing slave, and pay the blood money to the family of the slain, unless they remit it as a charity. If he (the victim) be of a people hostile unto you, and he is a believer, then (the penance is) to set free a believing slave. And if he cometh of a folk between whom and you there is a covenant, then the blood money must be paid unto his folk and (also) a believing slave must be set free. And whoso hath not the wherewithal must fast two consecutive months. A penance from Allah. Allah is Knower, Wise.

So, your example is useless, my dear guest !!!

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Because if you hate your brothers, it means you are a killer! The Scripture says it.

Howcome?!!
Love and Hate are the heart actions, we can't control!!
So, how can I be considered a killer for something, I am forced to?!!!
but what we control is our morals and deeds, so we are ordered to watch our temper and control our deeds !!!
Now it's fair, isn't it?!!!

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The rest of your post, I answered inclusively above


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I love talking to you. You’re one of the most intelligent people I have ever met. Blessings

Thank you, my dear guest for this nice compliment!
However I don't use my intelligence, I only use evidence and logic.

Waiting for your answer

Best regards

[bahiraomar]

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته


اقتباس

Thank you brother and I especially want to talk to you about the Trinity concept in Christianity. If you want you can contact me here anytime: ############@hotmail.com.


For sure I'd love to discuss it and all topics u like on its time, but here in this forum , as when we finish the issue of crucifixion - inshaallah - it will be your time to ask about whatever you like in Islam or Christianity. So, there is no need to exchange e-mails . – No, there is a need to exchange e-mails. Hahahaha. By the way have you read my letter in your yahoo account?



اقتباس

John the Baptist's was speaking about the One who is to come, the Messiah/Isa Al Massih. He recognized that Jesus is this Messiah and he called Him "The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world".
-The Scripture explains that Jesus Christ died for our sins: “Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures” (1 Corinthians 15:3b-4).






Dear decent guest, was Jesus a lamb?!!!
I can't accept this description, again I said He was Holy in the Holy Quran and we as Muslims can't accept such description !!! – Brother, the other day I was talking to Muslims and I mentioned you. So, let me tell you why do we call Jesus the Lamb of God. But it will be a long description….I will try to make it brief:
Brothers,
Our respected brother Mohammad Madian said the other day:
God Jesus is our Lamb slain for every one of us!
Any one who believes in these words is a deaf and blind fool,
What a poor god is that who is a lamb that gets slain for the sins of his creatures!!!!!!!! Where is your brains? Where is your common sense?
This is too ridiculous, any one who have some dignity wouldn’t accept these words to be said about his father rather than to be said about his god.
You are completely lost.

Brothers, yes it is funny in some sense that we cannot call our father as the lamb. But we call our God Jesus the Lamb of God slain from the foundation of the world. And we are proud of that fact. We are proud because the All-knowing God made a decision from the foundation of the world to give His Son to die on the cross instead of the humankind.
Let’s consider today why Jesus was called the Lamb of God.
And why we are proud that He is the Lamb who was slain for everyone of us?
Why our fathers could not be called by this perfect name the Lamb of God?
The title Lamb of God appears the first time in the Gospel of John, with the exclamation of John the Baptist: "Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world" in John 1:29, the title reaffirmed the next day in John 1:36.
John 3:16 teaches: "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have everlasting life."
John the Baptist's was speaking about the One who is to come, the Messiah/Isa Al Massih. He recognized that Jesus is this Messiah and he called Him "The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world".
The Scripture explains that Jesus Christ died for our sins: “Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures” (1 Corinthians 15:3b-4).
But what does it mean that Jesus is the Lamb of God?
The word Lamb in Hebrew is kebhes, "a young ram"; compare Arabic kebsh, "ram".
God said in Isaih 53:4 that a Man/Isa Al Massih "he has borne our griefs,". It means that according to the HOLY words of God, Isa Al Massih took away our sins like before through offerings Israelites were able to be free of their sins according to God’s command.
Hebrews kebhes, a male lamb from the first to the third year were offered God daily at the morning and the evening sacrifice (Exodus 29:38-42), on the Sabbath day (Numbers 28:9), at the feast of the New Moon (28:11), of Trumpets (29:2), of Tabernacles (13-40), of Pentecost (Leviticus 23:18-20), and of the Passover (Exodus 12:5), and on many other occasions (1 Chronicles 29:21; 2 Chronicles 29:21; Leviticus 9:3; 14:10-25).
Thus, the word Lamb/ram is the symbolical language of the Holy Scripture describing that the lamb is the type of meekness and innocence and it was the term used to describe God Jesus.
. God said that without the shedding the blood there is no forgiveness. That’s why Jews should offer to God animal sacrifices to get His forgiveness. The soul that sins should die- God said. But Jesus took away all sin of the world. Jesus knew that He should die. He spoke about it many times. Is it cruel and senseless but God was not the Master of the ceremonies. He did NOT kill His Son Jesus! Unbelievers did it! He just did not protect His Son! Even Jesus was able to protect Himself because He is the Creator of our planet! It was His will and choice to be crushed instead of us. His Father did not spare His Son but gave Him. It pleased the Father to bruise Him (Isaiah 53). How could He be pleased? The Father was pleased by seeing the outcome, redemption, eternal Plan of Salvation in action and millions of the saved Arabs entering the Kingdom of Heaven because of the LOVE of Jesus and His sufferings instead us. According to Isaiah 53, Jesus was the Man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. He came to taste the death for every one. He died to show us LOVE of God for you. Remember that He died to absorb the wrath of God. Justice and LOVE have met together and Justice and Mercy have kissed each other. Jesus met the righteous demands of God.
Mercy and truth have met together;
Righteousness and peace have kissed.
Psalm 85:10
He became sin who knew no sin. That’s why we can enter free to the Kingdom of God. Is not about our deserving. You will never be good enough. God is simply loving you and justifying and forgiving. He is taking residence in our heart. That’s why we call Him Ar-Rahman wa ar-Rahim!
So, when we call Jesus the Lamb of God, we refer to Him as the perfect and ultimate sacrifice for sin. In fact, the whole sacrificial system established by God in the Old Testament set the stage for the coming of Jesus Christ, who is the perfect sacrifice God would provide as atonement for the sins of His people. Jesus was “like a lamb led to the slaughter” (Jeremiah 11:19; Isaiah 53:7). That’s why He provided us redemption for the Small Remnant. You can be one of us through your FAITH in Him, REPENTANCE and confession of all your sins. Believe in God Jesus and abandon your sins and your name will be written in the Book of Life.
Brothers, in Revelation 4-5 we can see the scene: the heavenly throne room. After receiving the command to write message of God to the seven churches, John, the disciple of Jesus, is “caught up in the spirit” to the throne room in heaven where he is to receive a series of visions that culminate in the ultimate victory of God Jesus at the end of the age. Revelation 4 shows us the endless praise that God receives from the angels and the 24 elders. Chapter 5 begins with John noticing that there is a scroll in the “right hand of Him/Jesus who was seated on the throne.” The scroll has writing on the inside and is sealed with seven seals. After giving us a description of the scroll, an angel proclaims with a loud voice “Who is worthy to open the scroll and break its seals?” John begins to despair when no one comes forth to answer the angel’s challenge. One of the 24 elders points out that the Lion of the tribe of Judah has come to take and open the scroll. The Lion of the tribe of Judah is obviously a reference to Christ. The image of the lion is meant to convey kingship. Thus, Jesus is not only the slain Lamb but He is worthy to receive and open the scroll because He is the King of kings and hosts.
The Holy Scripture reveals the justice of God in all its glory during the end times. We all will see
God’s righteous judgment upon the inhabitants of the earth for their ultimate sin of rejecting Jesus. And we are promised that someday, when God Jesus will physically reigns on earth, God’s righteous justice will finally be on full display. Read it:
Job 5:23 For you will have a covenant with the stones of the field, and the wild animals will be at peace with you.

Isaiah 2:4 He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore.
Isaiah 65:25 The wolf and the lamb will feed together, and the lion will eat straw like the ox, but dust will be the serpent's food. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain," says the LORD.
Ezekiel 34:25 "'I will make a covenant of peace with them and rid the land of wild beasts so that they may live in the desert and sleep in the forests in safety.
Hosea 2:18 In that day I will make a covenant for them with the beasts of the field and the birds of the air and the creatures that move along the ground. Bow and sword and battle I will abolish from the land, so that all may lie down in safety.
What does it mean? The prophet describes the effect of Jesus’ reign in producing peace and tranquility on the earth. The two leading ideas are those of "peace" and "security." The figure is taken from the condition of animals of all descriptions living in a state of harmony, where those which are by nature defenseless, and which are usually made the prey of the strong, are suffered to live in security. By nature the wolf preys upon the lamb, and the leopard upon the kid, and the adder is venomous, and the bear, and the cow, and the lion, and the ox, cannot live together. But if a state of things should arise, where all this hostility would cease and a little child would be safe. The Holy Scripture describes the righteous reign of the Messiah on earth.
God said: "And the wolf dwells with the lamb, and the leopard lies down with the kid; and calf and lion and stalled ox together: a little boy drives them. And cow and bear go to the pasture; their young ones lie down together: and the lion eats shopped straw like the ox. And the suckling plays by the hole of the adder, and the weaned child stretches its hand to the pupil of the basilisk-viper. They will not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the land is filled with knowledge of Jehovah, like the waters covering the sea." Isaiah 11:6
But how long will be the hostility ceased on earth? For 1,000 years.
What happens then? Let me remind you what I said before:
Soon people will witness the perfect reign of God Jesus for 1,000 years on our earth. But however some of them will refuse to believe in Him. He will stop wars and production of arms but they will still desire to destroy His Kingdom. He will not kill them but they will desire to kill Him like before. He will not attack them, but they will gather together again for a war against Him. There will be no weapon in Jerusalem to protect Jesus, His angels and saints. How He is going to defend Himself? He is God. The Almighty, Omnipresent and Omniscient God who created people and all visible and invisible worlds. Will He dwell among us if people do not want to see His presence? He will show them who He is and how righteously He reigns. He was described by the prophets in the Holy Bible and by reading His Holy words said there, we are able to look into His eyes even today. But even by looking at God, people would like to live without God!
How He is going to exist with those who do not want to exist with Him?
He is going to take those, who want to dwell with Him, to a NEW WORLD created by Him….So, it will be a final and great escape to another WORLD soon….Will you be among us? Or do you prefer to be left on our planet which will be destroyed?
Summary: Brothers, when Jesus is referred to as the Lamb, you should remember that He is also the Lion. He is not only the Man. But Almighty God dwelling in the body. He is not only the sacrificial Lamb who took away the reproach of sin from His people but He is the conquering King who will slay the enemies of God by the WORDS of God at His return during the Judgment Day. He is against the war and He is God of Peace and Justice. But His Justice is going to devour His enemies who will be gathered together for the two coming Wars in Jerusalem raping Jewish women according to the prophecies. Will you share in His ultimate victory? Or are you going to see the flames of fire around you?


It was mentioned "the sin" with the definite article "the" and the singular form "sin" which refered to the original sin, but you explained it as "our sins" as you seem that you yourself don't accept the idea of the original sin and you believe that there was no inherited sin, and that is a great beginning ....- Brother, we do not believe in the Original sin which could be inherited by all people. This concept was invented by the Catholic Church and not all Christians belong to this Church. Thus, we disagree with this concept too. Yes, we all are sinners because, according to the first crimes/sin of our father Adam and his wife, the sin entered the world and through sin DEATH. That’s why we all became commit sins. But we do not inherit sins. It is a madness. Even Jesus was holy according to the Scripture and He did not inherit any sins of His mother.

Let's spotlight on "he was buried, that he was raised on the third day"

Let's see if that happened according to the Bible:

M't 12:39 But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:
M't 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Which meant Jesus would stay 3 days & 3 nights in the heart of the earth as Jonas did in the whale!

Jews didn't consider a day is 24 hours as we do, but at them a day starts from the sun rise to the sun set, while the night of the following day starts from the sun set to the sun rise , and for sure you know the night comes before the day. So the night of Sunday is Saturday at night at us.

Let's calculate it starting from the moment Jesus was buried:
He was buried at the night of ٍSaturday
Lu 23:53 And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid.
Lu 23:54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on.

He Got out before the day of Sunday
M't 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.

Let's count how many days and nights

The night of Saturday + The Day of Saturday
The Night of Sunday + ????
The Day of Saturday is missing

2 nights & 1 day

2 days + 1 night are missing !!!
But
Let's be more generous and calculate Sunday as Luke's Gosble
M'r 16:2 And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.
So We can Sunday could be included , so it could be as the following:


The night of Saturday + The Day of Saturday
The Night of Sunday + The day of Sunday

2days & 2 nights

1 day + 1 night are missing !!!

Well, can be even more generous and think that jews used to count even a part or the Friday Day, so it could be like this:

The day of Friday + The night of Saturday
The Day of Saturday + The night of Sunday
The Day of Sunday + ????

The night of Monday is missing
1 night is missing !!!

So, the prophecy of Jesus didn't achieved!!!

- Brother, let me answer to this question so:

Wed night...Thursday day / night...Friday day / night...Saturday...day..." And the day and night where 1 day"...3 nights 3 days.. here is something I found that will explain for you what is taught in scriptures, if you have a Jewish Calender in the back of your Bible you will see it clearly.

The Feast of the Passover (a high Sabbath) and the Feast of the Unleavened Bread (another high Sabbath) were celebrated on April 14th and 15th respectively. Sunset initiated the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Nisan 15 was a "high day", a non Saturday Sabbath.

The first month of the Jewish year is the month of Nisan or "Aviv." The name "Aviv" comes from the Hebrew term "Chodesh Ha-Aviv" which means the "the month of Spring." Aviv was the name used for first month of the year before the Babylonian captivity. After the Babylonian captivity it was called "Nisan" or "Nisan".

The day Jesus died was the preparation day (Wednesday) of the Passover celebration on Thursday (John 19:14, 31: "And it was the preparation of the Passover, and about the sixth hour: and he (meaning Pilate) saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!" This was the morning of the crucifixion day. Verse 31 states, "The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the Sabbath day, (for that Sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away."

Therefore, Passover (Nisan "Aviv" 14 ) was on Thursday, that year, the Feast of Unleavened Bread began on Friday (seven day feast last to Nisan "Aviv" 21), and the regular weekday Sabbath was on Saturday. Jesus was crucified in the morning on Wednesday and placed in the tomb before 6 P.M. He arose from the grave sometime after 6 P.M. on Saturday, which would be early Sunday morning, the first day of the week, according to Jewish time-keeping. Â This explanation fits Jesus' prophecy in Matthew 12:40 that He would be "three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

This is the only view that fits the biblical account is that Jesus was crucified on Wednesday and buried before 6:00 PM that day. The Jewish day began at 6:00 PM which was the Passover (Nisan "Aviv" 14).

Therefore the Passover began on Wednesday after 6:00 PM which would actually be Thursday in the Julian calendar.

The women brought the spices on Friday, rested on Saturday and went on Sunday morning after 6:00 AM and found the Lord was resurrected. This is the series of events and is accord with Jesus' states of Matthew 12:38-40.Jesus was in the grave three full days and three nights. Any other view violates the biblical account and the historical facts.


Moreover, Jesus wasn't buried in the Heart of the earth , he was buried in a stone of a mountain!!!- In the heart of the earth - The Jews used the word "heart" to denote the "interior" of a thing, or to speak of being in a thing. It means, here, to be in the grave or sepulchre. The expression "in the heart of the earth," suggested by the expression of Jonah with respect to the sea (2:3, in the Septuagint), means simply the grave, but this considered as the most emphatic expression of real and total entombment.
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Who were the witnesses of the story of crucifixion?

4 people who mentioned the story, Luke, Mark, Matthew, John

Mark & Luke did not attend this event , they weren't of his students. What even worse they had never seen him at all.

Matthew & John escaped during the event, as Mark said:
M'r 14:50 And they all forsook him, and fled.

So, Who were the witnesses of the story?!!!
No one !!

Such an issue if it offered to any civilized court, the testimony of these witnesses would be refused at once.!!!!- The Gospel descriptions of the crucifixion appear to be eyewitness accounts.
Gospel of Matthew. According to this gospel, the various witnesses included Roman soldiers, Jewish officials, passersby who mocked Jesus, and two men crucified at the same time. The only reference to followers of Jesus is found in Matthew 27:55-56, which says that many women were "watching from a distance", and specifically names "Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's sons."
Mark 15:40-41 also says that many women watched from a distance and specifically mentions "Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joses, and Salome."
In Luke 23:49, which says that some of them watched from a distance, but doesn't give any names.
Note: If we try to list all the specific individuals mentioned in the various accounts, we get the following result:
1. Mary Magdalene (mentioned by Matthew, Mark, and John)
2. Mary the mother of James and Joses (mentioned by Matthew and Mark)
3. The mother of Zebedee's sons (mentioned by Matthew)
4. Salome (mentioned by Mark) -- Many scholars think that this is the same person as (3), the mother of Zebedee's sons
5. Mary the mother of Jesus (mentioned by John)
6. Mary the wife of Clophas (who was probably Joseph's brother) (mentioned by John)
7. An un-named sister of Jesus' mother (mentioned by John) -- Many scholars think that this is the same person as (6), i.e., the wife of Clophas
8. The un-named Beloved Disciple (mentioned by John)
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Who was risen form the Tomb?
The answer is a Devil or a liar- A good question! But the Scripture which existed before foundation of Islam said that the Messiah should be killed instead of us and buried and accept our sins (read pls the Old Testament, Isaiah 53). Note: God said these words! Not a man! God said these words through a prophet called Isaiah and if we claim that God lied us in this chapter then we just boldly claim that our Allah is a Liar! So, if God clearly said that Isa Al Massih should be buried and killed then if we trust the words of another allah, then HOW we are going to get to the Kingdom of Heaven!!!?

2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.- Yes, let me remind you about convulsions of Muhammad from which he suffered always when angel gave him revelations (Muhammad felt suffering, prrssing on the breast, sound and convulsions…).

M't 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. M't 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
M't:24:25: Behold, I have told you before.
M't 24:26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

No witnesses & Christ himself warned u to believe them& the prophecy was not fulfilled !!! So, do you still accept it?!!!
- Right. There will be many false Messiahs called the anti-christ. The word ‘ani’ could be translated as ‘instead of’. Jesus warned us that we should not believe in them or we will get to hell.

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Was Jesus suitable for redemption?

The answer is No !!!

Because any sacrifice must be physically complete, and if it's not complete or deformed or there is any tiny missing part, it can't be suitable for sacrifice, let's have some examples of such thing:

Le 1:3 If his offering be a burnt sacrifice of the herd, let him offer a male without blemish


Le 1:10 And if his offering be of the flocks, namely, of the sheep, or of the goats, for a burnt sacrifice; he shall bring it a male without blemish.

Was Jesus physically complete to be suitable for sacrifice?
The Answer is No !!!- Quran called Jesus HOLY. The Bible called Him HOLY. God Himself in Isaiah 53 (the Old Testament) said that He is RIGHTEOUS.

He was circumcised when he was 8 days, to the foreskin was missing !!! So he was not complete!!- Why Jews should be circumcised? Let’s consider it today: But why God said to do circumcision? How did circumcision start in the Bible? According to Genesis, God told Abraham to circumcise himself, his household and his slaves as an everlasting covenant in their flesh. Those who were not circumcised were to be ‘cut off’ from their people (Genesis 17:10-14). Who was to be circumcised?
Abraham, his descendants and those who were bought with their money (Genesis 17:12-13). Also, all the males of a household were to be circumcised if one of them wanted to join in the Passover celebrations (Exodus 12:43-49).
The Passover means Passover from death of sin /slavery of sins to life with God…from sinful life to holy life with God….from slavery of sins to the Kingdom of Heaven.
Thus, the circumcision is just a symbol used by God in the Bible to tell people that to be apart of God’s people/Israel/the saved Church-Ummah who will inherit the Holy Land/The Kingdom of Heaven we should GET RID of our sins which became part of our body though our SINS. So, Cut away your sins, get RID of them through BLOOD (symbol of Jesus’ blood shed on the cross) and YOU can be a part of the chosen people of God….Apart of the people chosen for salvation and FUTURE in the Promised Land/The kingdom of Heaven.
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To be continued

[bahiraomar]

Did God Accept human sacrifice:
No !!!

De 18:10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,

Le 20:2 Again, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever he be of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth any of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.
Ro 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Human sacrifice is not accepted and capital punishment to whoever commit such a crime!!!- Right. I am happy that you know our Scripture. But AGAIN you should just memorize another Holy Scripture called Isaiah 53. God clearly said that Isa Al Massih will accept the sin of the world/of the Small Remnant. It means it was the will of God. It was a sacrifice not of a Man but of God Jesus. He was God. God accepted sufferings of God.

As Paul said:
1Co 15:14 And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

That is why i insist to finish this issue completely to realize it's vain!- Yes. I want to discuss with you all your questions which you have about our Christian Faith and I am afraid that when I will ask you questions about Islam then you could be disappointed. But to be fair and for your sake, you should allow me to attack your faith by questions. Then you will feel broken of course, but it will give you at least a chance to get a big picture why we say that Allah was NEVER in Islam and that He is Isa Allah.
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اقتباس

just an illustration: Jesus came to you to prison and paid money to get you out of there. He gave you also a huge amount of money which is put to your bank account. You can get this amount ONLY if you will prove that it is YOU whose name is written in the Book of Life (in the bank database system). If your name is written in the Book of Life then you can get your money. It means that Jesus died for all Arabs, Jews, Muslims and unbelievers. But only those whose names will be written in the Book of Life could get to the Kingdom of Heaven and be God’s Inheritance. It means only their sins were forgiven. Only they got salvation and forgiveness through their Faith in God Jesus who died on the cross for them. It is Christianity. So, God forgave the sin of the world (giving forgiveness to every one who wants it) but only a limited number of people came to ‘bank’ to claim their money. Thus, only they will use this huge amount.


Sorry dear, your example has nothing to do with our topic !!!

Jesus didn't pay money, he let himself to be insulted, hit and killed...
Paying money gives you honor
Paying your dignity gives you disgrace, which we can never accept to describe Christ with!

generous people pay money with no condition, but Jesus paid money under a condition !!!

We are not prisoners to be bailed out!!!- We all are prisoners of sins and God’s laws. According to these laws, we should be punished by death…we ALL…you and me. Because if we violated one oh His HOLY commandments it means we are guilty of the violation of all laws!!!

Jesus had to pay money to prisoners- no way to release a prisoners except this - So, it's a proof of his weakness!!!- But all TRUE believers in God Jesus- Christians- possess the righteousness of Jesus Christ! Do you remember that He was HOLY! Why? Because “God made him/Jesus who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God” (2 Corinthians 5:21). So, it means we all have righteousness/holiness of Jesus because He gave us His righteousness though FAITH in Him. It was an amazing transaction: He took our sins and gave us His righteousness! Alhamdu lillah!

In addition, Jesus was not for all humans, he was for the house of Israel – Right. He came to the people of Israel. Because this group of people our God chose among other nations and gave them revelations though prophet about His Nature LOVE. But the plan of God was to spread the faith in this God of Israel to other nations too to save them. There are verses in the Old Testament saying that during the reign of God Jesus during His Second Coming to Jerusalem many nations will come to Him to worship Him. Thus, salvation of Jesus was for all nations. But His first visit was for this ONE separated group of people called Israel. However Jesus healed a woman who didn’t belong to Israel! Look:
In Matthew 7:6 Jesus calls unbelievers dogs and swine, and in Matthew 15:26 Jesus likens both the Canaanite woman and Gentiles to dogs.

Jesus was using common Jewish metaphors to illustrate an unbeliever's or pagan's total depravity. The crowds would have understood that Jesus was obviously using metaphorical language, and was not literally calling someone a dog or swine. In regards to Jesus' statement in Matthew 15:26, Christ was trying to illustrate a key point to His disciples.

According to first century Jewish thought both Gentiles and women were held in low esteem. Jews regarded themselves as the children of God, whereas Gentiles were nothing more than house pets. The Greek word used in this verse for dogs is kynarion, which properly translated means house pet or puppy. Jesus' use of this term implies that just as a house pet has a place in the home of His master, so too do the Gentiles have a place prepared for them in God's Kingdom. Christ was trying to move His Jewish disciples, who had tried earlier to get rid of the Canaanite woman, to envy by the woman's persistence and display of great faith, a faith exemplified by someone who to them was nothing more than a house pet.

In similar fashion, Jesus had used a Roman Centurion's faith in contrast to the Israelites' lack of faith:

"Now when Jesus heard this, he marveled, and said to those who were following, `Truly I say to you, I have not found such great faith with anyone in Israel. And I say to you, that many shall come from East and West, and recline at the table with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven; but the sons of the Kingdom shall be cast out into the outer darkness; in that place there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' " Matthew 8:5-12.

The Jews considered Romans as enemies which God would destroy when Messiah would appear. And yet here was Israel's Messiah commending the faith of such a one.

Hence, Jesus was using Gentiles as examples for Israel to emulate, not look down upon.

M't 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
M't 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

Let's see another relevant example:
Some thieves stole a bank, the judge needed to set them free, so he sentence himself to death!!!

God needed to set humans free, so he killed himself!!!- Yes. Let me illustrate it to you:
Your son is ill and he is hospital. Only you can save him by giving him your kidney. If you will not give it to him then you know that there is no other man who could be donor. And after this operation you die. But your son is alive. It is the highest love when you sufferer everything…your life to save another person. It is the highest LOVE of a man to his child. If you will not push your child from approaching car and die instead of him in this accident then your LOVE to your child is NOTHING! Because it means that you love yourself more then anyone else. So, if you are able to suffer and die saving your child then LOOK HOW great and perfect is LOVE of your Father who gave His Son to die instead of you. This ‘car’ smashed Him to pieces and that’s why you will live forever and ever!

The question has not been answered till now, Why did he kill himself to forgive them however there are many ways for forgiveness? !!!!- God is OMNISCIENT. It means He knows the end from the beginning. He knew that to show His HIGHEST LOVE toward you, He should suffer and die instead of you. God revealed Himself/His nature and essence- LOVE and Justice- in the life of death of His Son Ibn Allah. It was God’s perfect Plan of Salvation/ there is nothing better than that! There is no other better plan to reveal Himself to you and save you. His Justice and Mercy have kissed each other.


اقتباس

Did Jesus accept to be crucified or not with proof, please?- Jesus said many times before His death that He should die soon (He should be killed and He even said that they will destroy this Temple-His Body and He was going to restore it in three days)


Where is the answer, dear?
The answer I expect was one of two (Yes, he accepted it.) or ( No, He was forced to do it) is there any other expected answers?!!!- LOVE of God made Him to die instead of you! His LOVE made Him to suffer instead of you. His mercy made Him to descend from His Kingdom down to earth to suffer instead of you. He was forced by His LOVE to suffer instead of you.

Let's discuss it:
What did it mean if he was forced to do?
1-He can't be a God at all, as there is someone forced him to do.- If LOVE force you to do some kind of things then how much GOD was moved and forced by His NATURE to suffer LONG to get you back to Him! The nature of our Jewish/christian God Jesus is LONGSUFFERING(according to the Scripture)!
2- The claim of love is useless as he didn't do that because he loved you, but because he had to.- He explained His motives. He said that He LOVED the world- i.e. the human kind.
Look:
John 3:16
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

3- It's an invitation to search for that stronger god to worship him instead of Jesus

What did it mean if he accepted to be crucified?

1- He committed suicide,
as he accepted to be killed, however, he was able to defend himself!- Brother, if you gave your kidney to save your son in a hospital, it does not make you a suicide (bomber) if you would die after this operation …lol…kidding.

2- Why did he try to escape, but they caught him
Joh 8:59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.- Because His mission was not finished yet and He escaped the tread. If we would do it too, it means we are reasonable…lol

Joh 10:39 Therefore they sought again to take him: but he escaped out of their hand,

3- Why did he shout asking for help on the cross:
M't 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?- His Father left Him to die on the cross. His Father turned from Him because He bore the sin of the world on His body at that moment. The Holy God father turned from the Son who took not one crime of one man on His body on the cross but millions of crimes of millions of people…..He became sin. But a prayer is a communication to God and He was trying to talk/communicate with His Father. Of course Jesus knew the answer to this question but He was calling His LOVING Father to turn to His HOLY Son who became sin.

So, please think deeply and tell me which one you choose.

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There is something we can never neglect in this point:
Did Allah Die on the cross?- God/Allah is immortal! ONLY the human body in which He dwelt was killed. It is impossible to kill God!
You believe that Allah is Jesus, right?- Yes. He is Ibn Allah and equal to His Father. We say: Allahu Wahid. Hua Babba Allah wa Ibn Allah war Ruh al Qudus.
So, you believe that Allah died on the cross!!!- His BODY died on the cross.

De 32:40 For I lift up my hand to heaven, and say, I live for ever. – Yes, He is immortal and He is going to resurrect us to be immortal like He is. We are Immortal already who believes in Him. Already now He granted us the Kingdom of Heaven! Already now we are holy. Already now we use His power and cast out demons and heal illnesses like Jesus did it. Already now we are God’s inheritance and His ambassadors on this planet earth.

God Never die

But Jesus died and buried !!!- Body was killed and buried but Jesus said that He was going to resurrect/restore this Temple-His body- in three days and He did it and now we will be resurrected the same way and we will look like He is…Our bodies will be transformed upon the Rapture of the Church. And then we- the Church- will return to Jerusalem with Jesus and His mighty angels and Muslim troops gathered around Jerusalem and Jews will see that He who was resurrected was really the Mighty God….and light is coming out of His pierced hands as a witness that by these wounds/scars we are HEALED and granted the Freedom from death and hell.
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اقتباس


2- Was Jesus crucified for the sake of all humans since Adam, or for people after him only?
– Only for people who lived during the life of Jesus and after His death.
But after His death He went to the hell and we believe that He set some people free from hell who wanted to believe in Him. All people- Jews- who lived before Jesus were judged by God according to the laws of God (Jewish al Shariah). I.e. according to the 10 Holy Commandments


اقتباس

3-Are all prophets and the believers who followed them in the hell or the paradise?- No. Even millions of people who called themselves as Christians are now in hell. We can get to the Kingdom of Heaven ONLY if our names our written in the Book of Life by angels. It happens ONLY when we are born of God/from God/ born from above. This is the central concept in Christianity when we born by God for a new life with Him. To be born of God we need to BELIEVE that Jesus is God, REPENT of all our sins, CONFESS them to God in salat/prayer and ABANDON these sins.


Where is your proof, dear guest?

He was crucified for those lived during and after him, and who lived before him were judged according to laws, so, who followed the commands are in the paradise, and who neglected them are in the hell, right?- It is the concept of Sheol. Look:
Sheol- the ‘grave’, or ‘pit’ or ‘abyss’.
In Judaism, it is a place of darkness to which all dead go regardless of the moral choices made in life and where they are "removed from the light of God".
The word Hades (= underworld) was substituted for ‘Sheol’ when the Hebrew Scriptures were translated into Greek. English translations of the Hebrew Scriptures have variously rendered the word Sheol as ‘Hell’or ‘the grave’. In the Hebrew Bible (Torah/Taurat), the word ‘Sheol’ occurs more than 60 times. It is used most frequently in the Psalms, wisdom literature and prophetic books. Those in Sheol awaited the resurrection for Judgment of God Jesus either in comfort (in the place called the bosom of Abraham- or in other words paradise) or in torment (or in other words in hell).
Jesus who is God explained us what is the place the Bosom of Abraham and what is the place of torment. Let’s listen to Jesus now:
Luke Chapter 16
The Rich Man and Lazarus
“There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day. But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate, desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried. And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
“Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’
“Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’
But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets,
neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’”

Now, what is the role of crucifixion?!!!!

Obedient worshippers are in the paradise
Disobedient are in the hell- Unbelievers will be in hell who are NOT forgiven of their sins through their FAITH in God Jesus. Forgiven people will dwell with God in the New World created for them (re-read last 2 chapters of the Bible, Revelation).

There is no difference might be fulfilled by crucifixion!!! – There is a difference we are forgiven and HOLY!!!!

Exactly like all religions before Him, so, why did he crucify himself?!!!!- To show you His LOVE and forgive your crimes against Him and people and get you HOME!!!!

Concerning going to hell to get those who believed in him,
You mean He went to disobedient to release them, they can't be obedient people as they are already in the paradise as you said
I need you to think honestly, if there is a person in a fire, and whoever has the power to get him out of the fire and he said, " I am your God, if you believe in me, you will be in the paradise"
Do you think there will be even one person refuses him to stay the hell , there is no doubt all of them would believe and accept whatever he says to release themselves, especially after seeing what we can't see now in this world !!!!

We all believe, this world is the world of test and after death, we gain the fruit of our thinking and there will be no choice given to anybody after death!!!- Sheol/Hades is a temporary place, where souls are kept as they await the final resurrection and judgment/ It is like a prison. Revelation 20:11-15 gives a clear distinction between the two. There is also the lake of fire after the Judgment and it is the permanent and final place of judgment for the lost. So, Hades is a temporary place. The Sheol/Hades has remained unchanged. All unbelieving dead go there awaiting their final judgment in the future. Did Jesus go to sheol/hades? Yes, according to Ephesians 4:8-10 and 1 Peter 3:18-20.
8 Therefore it says, “When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.” 9 (In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth? 10 He who descended is the one who also ascended far ... Ephesians 4:8-10
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us—baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him. 1 Peter 3:18-20.
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اقتباس

I can illustrate it too: you are flying in aircraft to Saudi Arabia (the Kingdom of Heaven) but you follow the instruction and your navigation system (the Holy Spirit/the words of God in the Bible). At the moment when you control your aircraft as you wish and not according to the main rules (when you are sinning or living in sins) then you aircraft will be crashed facing the mountains which you could not see because of the law visibility. So, in the aircraft you are safe and heading for the Kingdom of God ONLY if you obey God and lives as He says. If you live as you want then you will crash soon. So, who is saved? Only THOSE who landed safely in the Kingdom of Heaven! So, you need to be safe and saved! Not all are able to land safe at the destination- the Kingdom of Heaven.


Sorry dear it has nothing to do with crucifixion!!!

I can apply it to any religion or even to a company system!
Who follows his religious teaching will reach his target safely, and who does not will be dismissed out!!!- Yes, you are right. I said that you are an intelligent man not in vain!!!! You know that even million of Christians cannt understand what you understood! They think that they will be in hell, but their lives testify against them and thus, they are sinners/criminals in the eyes of God until today. So, if even million of Christians will be in hell and will join millions of Christians who are in hell right now, how should we get to the Kingdom of Heaven? Though FAITH in God Jesus we will escape the Judgment Day and during this day we will get rewards. It will be a Reward Ceremony. But we need to live a godly life by WALKING with God in righteousness and holiness. Those ‘priests’ who sleep with men, as we see it in the Catholic Church, will be in hell because Holy God Jesus condemns them. He will judge them if they will not REPENT, abandoning their lovers, madness, crimes, sins…Thus, the purpose of God is YOUR SUBMISSION to Him and transformation or in other words you should be purified/refined during all days of your life like GOLD from its alloys and then you will be prepared to enter the prepared Place for the Prepared people (the Small Remnant)! Ahlan Wa Sahlan Arabs, Muslims, Jews, Idol worshippers, killers, shahyds, cow worshippers! But there is no cow to worship hat’s why GET RID of your cows and worship Kalimat-ullah who created the universe, you and all visible and invisible worlds.

The issue is the role of crucifixion!!, please don't forget
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اقتباس

it is a symbol even in Islam that the Lamb of God is offered by God instead of us. God tested Ibrahim and asked from him the best and the most precious- his son. Ibrahim was ready to kill his son (he actually killed him already in his heart). But knowing the love of Ibrahim toward God, God also gave us His Son Jesus to forgive and bear all our sins instead of us

Great difference between the two stories!

Ibraham was a God's slave, not the God
Allah tested him, but refused to let him kill his son!
You said, "he actually killed him already in his heart"
How did you know?!!!
If you were him, would you kill your son in your heart?!!- Ibrahim offered his son. It means offering was made! How? In His heart and by using the ram which was given to Him by God as a substitute.
The Faith of the Patriarchs

By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, of whom it was said, “In Isaac your seed shall be called,” concluding that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead, from which he also received him in a figurative sense.
Hebrews 11: 17-20

This symbol contradicts the crucifixion, that Allah the most merciful refused to let a man to kill his son, would you think Allah would do if he had a son?!!! – Yes, right. It was a TEST of God.

What people can do and get or gained are different from Allah do. We are His creatures; For example, we go to toilet, bleed, do bad stuff...etc.
Allah has attributes of perfection and pride ,shortage is impossible in his part; and killing his son ( as you believe ) - by the hand of his creatures - is an unforgivable crime – You are right akhi. Our God is HOLY and His nature is LOVE and He is FAITHFUL and LONGSUFFERING.
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To be continued

[Authentic Man]

Quote

To be continued

I am waiting for your continuance

I wanna tell you something, I am travelling overseas today, and Iwill be home in 3 weeks.... inshaallah

You can complete your answer till I come back, I promise to answer it if I find a chance to do there or when I come back home....inshaallah

That gives you enough time to think deeper!!!, So, please, Bahira, reread what I wrote to you with your mind and heart, as you try to repeat the same reasons even after the bible refuses your opinion... and reread what you wrote and feel it, do you believe in each word you say? does it give sense or not!!

Concerning the trinity, i promised u to discuss it here together, but on time, after finishing crucifixion

best regards

[bahiraomar]

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

I will wait for your responses. Meanwhile I want to share what I think about my God and Islam.

God said:

“ Yes, I have loved you with an everlasting love;
Therefore with lovingkindness I have drawn you.”

Jeremiah 31:3

MAKE LOVE YOUR AIM

Brothers,
Do you know that LOVE is the greatest of all virtues.
I saw how Muslims love Muslims.
But Muslims do not know that they should love their enemies. Brothers, Muslims are commanded to love only Muslims.
As always you do not believe me?

Al Qura’an 60:4:
There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah. we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone": But not when Abraham said to his father: "I will pray for forgiveness for thee, though I have no power (to get) aught on thy behalf from Allah." (They prayed): "Our Lord! in Thee do we trust, and to Thee do we turn in repentance: to Thee is (our) Final Goal.

Muhammad said:
The Prophet (saw) said: The best of the actions is to love for the sake of Allah and to hate for the sake of Allah. Abu Dawud 40:4582


One man said: I went out with my father to Syria. The people passed by the cloisters in which there were Christians and began to salute them. My father said: Do not give them salutation first, for AbuHurayrah reported the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) as saying: Do not salute them (Jews and Christians) first, and when you meet them on the road, force them to go to the narrowest part of it."
Abu Dawud 41:5186, Sahih Muslim 26:5389, Sahih Muslim 26:5390

Why do we see it in Islamic world?
There is a concept in Islam called al-Walaa wal-Baraa.
Walaa is allegiance or love (for Muslims). Baraa is enmity or hate (of kafirs). So the concept is to love Muslims and Islam and to hate kafirs and their civilization. Walaa and baraa are love and hate. Walaa/baraa destroys all empathy and sympathy for kafirs. It means there is NO LOVE to all people in Islam! The walaa/baraa principle is duality at the personal level and at the same time it causes duality at the political level. Islam is incapable of being our friend because Islam teaches hatred. We know with you that those who hate other people are murderers. Yes, and only THOSE who know Islam are able to know this concept al-Walaa wal-Baraa. Other Muslims are secular Muslims. They do what Islam says not knowing why Islam says it. But we with you are another group of people who are called by God to BE REASONABLE. God called us to reason together with Him to find Him (Isaiah1:18 Come now, let us reason together,"says the LORD…).

So, what does it mean?

God Jesus said:
Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3: 15

But let’s look now how this attitude caused by Islam in the hearts of Muslims affects our lives and our world:
Hamaz publishes scores of jihadist testimonies such as this from the will of suicide bomber Isma'il al-Ma'aswabi, who detonated a car bomb killing two Israeli soldiers:
love of jihad and martyrdom rules my life, my soul, my feelings and my heart … It is difficult for the soul that has tasted the sweet taste of jihad, the suffering in which is delicious … to rest anywhere else than Paradise …Whereas I am living in Paradise … do not be sad my brothers as I am a shahid in Paradise …and I will see you there with God's help.
Brother where is Isma'il al-Ma'aswabi now?
His Islam called him to kill people and explode himself and their bodies.
Hamaz called him to suffer and die.
Is this explosion of two Israeli soldiers by Isma'il al-Ma'aswabi a crime?

You and God have different nature and essence. That’s why what you think can contradict His will. You are NOT God and to know this God we study His words said many centuries before the existence of Islam. So, this God clearly said that anyone who violates any of His laws are guilty of violation of all laws of God. It means, if you hate anyone/your brother, it means you are a murderer of your brother. No one is teaching you that in Madrassah. No one teaches that in religious Islamic schools….
There should not be any hatred in our lives if we are going to get to the Kingdom of God.
Remember that our God is HOLY and righteous and He clearly said in the one of His Holy Commandments written by the finger of God at the Mount Sinai and given to Moses: YOU SHALL NOT KILL.

We all can know our God by analysis of the HOLY words of God said many centuries before the existence of Islam. Let’s analyze them today together. I like to use this example: there are 33 mln of gods/allahs ONLY in India! How to know the difference between the TRUE God and one of this gods called cow. We just SHOULD analyze the nature/essence of cow and God to understand who should be worshipped by me and you and every man on this earth.

So, brothers, God said that He manifested His love for every one of us and He expects that in some way we would love Him with all our hearts in return.

"Beloved, let us love one another; for love is of God, and he who loves is born of God and knows God. He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. In this is love, not that we loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No man has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us". 1 John 4:7-11.
What does it mean? God loves us when we were sinners and He manifested His love toward us by sending us His perfect Son from His Perfect world to live among us and take our sins to His body and die instead of us.
How may we understand the depth of this love?
My Muslim brother said:
God needed to set humans free, so he killed himself!!!

Yes, right. Let me illustrate it to you:
You are living in Libya. There are no good hospitals like in the USA. Your son is ill and he is hospital. Only you can save him by giving him your kidney for operation and transplantation. If you will not give it to him then you know that there is no other man who could be donor. And after this operation you die. But your son is alive. It is the highest love when you suffered everything…your life to save another person. We say that it is the highest LOVE of a man to his child.
Or if you will not push your child from approaching car and die instead of him in this accident then your LOVE to your child is NOTHING! Because it means that you love yourself more than anyone else. So, if you are able to suffer and die, saving your child, then LOOK HOW great and perfect is LOVE of your Father- God- who gave His Son to die instead of you. This ‘car’ smashed Him to pieces and that’s why you will live forever and ever!

"Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends". John 15:13

"He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, will he not also give us all things with him?" Romans 8:32

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life". John 3:16

Here we have a visible expression of God's love for us. God manifested His love toward all of us Christian and Muslims. We did not know this God, but He knew us.
He said if even you do not know Me, I will grid you.

I am the LORD, and there is no other;
There is no God besides Me.
I will gird you, though you have not known Me, Isaiah 45:5-6
Thus, God made you the gift of His Son and it is a full manifestation of the depth of His love towards you and all of us:
"God shows his love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us". Romans 5:8


You all know Moses. Shortly before his death he addressed to the Children of Israel:

"You shall keep the commandments of the Lord your God, by walking in his ways and by fearing him". Deuteronomy 8:6

It is our duty to keep God's laws and we deservedly incur His wrath if we do not do so. Those who do not implement what God said are unbelievers and they will be judged soon. We all are servants and as servants we are obliged to render loyal service to our Master. So it is the duty of all men to fear God and keep His commandments (Ecclesiastes 12:13).
But when one man asked Jesus which is the greatest of all God's commandments, what would the answer be? First, let us hear Moses again to discover whether there is a greater duty upon us towards God other than that of simply keeping His laws.
"What does the Lord your God require of you, but to fear the Lord your God, to walk in all his ways, to love him, to serve the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul". Deuteronomy 10:12
Our service to God must be the expression of the affections of our own hearts toward Him and people. We should LIVE by walking with God like Moses was guided by this God in the desert after their escape/Passover from Egypt. Moses and a group of people lived there without water, food and clothes. But God provided them food, and water. Even God protected their clothes, they were unchanged, preserved. God knows our greatest needs, and He knows what will sustain us and keep us safe. The fact is that the clothes and shoes of the Israelites did not wear out in the 40 years of desert wandering. God is faithful and supplies our needs. The manna stayed fresh so long as the people gathered it up according to His instructions and water came out of a rock for them because God was with them and kept them. The point is that it wasn't meat that the Israelites lacked but it was faith. God was trying to break their hope in flesh and thoughts of earthly pleasures in their captivity in Egypt. He was teaching them to live depending only on Him. Thus, He made them to be His people…perfect and separated from other pagan nations…This people Israelites didn’t depend on flesh and what they saw. They hoped to get what was unseen- the Promised Land/ the Kingdom of Heaven. This people entered the Promised Land and this land become the HOLY Land because the Holy God dwelt among them and in their lives.
Moses did not enter the Promised Land because God did not allow him to do it because of his sin. But Moses made his people know which service God expects from men. The only service God will accept from men is that which flows from love that proceeds from the heart.
Centuries later a Jewish scribe came up to Jesus and put a question to Him to test His interpretation of the law/ Jewish al Shariah to see whether Jesus agreed with the opinions of the Jewish elders:
"Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?" Matthew 22:36

Jesus said:
"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment." Matthew 22:37-38

The command to love God is therefore the greatest and foremost of all His commandments. All other laws and all the teachings of the prophets are summed up in this one law to love the Lord with all our hearts, souls and minds.

Jesus continues:

And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” Matthew 22:39-40

Who is our neighbor? Jews in Palestine? Yes, they were given the Promised Land. This Land became HOLY because Jews brought there the HOLY laws of God of Israel. By entering there the HOLY Jewish people brought there the Kingdom of the HOLY God of Israel. Thus, God dwelt among them.

What is love?
We know that during all days of our lives we should be motivated by love. It means we obey God and this obedience that grows out of love. Love is expression of the affections of the heart. We serve each other with the purpose that this man or woman would escape the coming wrath of God against them. We seek to express that love in regularly prayers offered to God about this person…We can pray life long that God would save our parents, our brothers terrorists, stubborn Jews and our righteous Muslims. God values our heart-movements. He needs such service of our heart- our prayers. Prayer is not a bowing down, it is lifting up our brothers. We lift our supplications to the Throne of God and He is God who hears. He is God who saves. These are His names. God is able to dispatch from His Throne required number of His fighters/warriors called angels and they will guard your hearts and lives. God is who provides. It is His name.
Remember, brothers, that our love should be expressive. It is fire. Love is an empty vacuum unless it manifests itself in appropriate ways. Unless deeds of love flow from our hearts, there is no love in our hearts. This love flowing from our hearts to save our brothers is FAITH. This love is evident in our deeds.
"Little children, let us not love in word or speech but in deed and truth". 1 John 3:18

If we obey God and His commandments/laws/words and turn from slavery of our sins in Egypt like Israelites did it in the desert after their Passover from their slavery in Egypt then it means that we love God. If we love people then it means that we love God.
It is the truth.
Worship God in this TRUTH.

In the Song of Solomon/the Old Testament, we have an example of this principle.
The book concerns the deepest affections of a man and his bride for one another. On one occasion when he was apart from her, she sought him desperately, saying to her companions:
"I adjure you, O daughters of Jerusalem, if you find my beloved, that you tell him I am sick with love". Song of Solomon 5:8
Her companions said to her in reply:
"What is your beloved more than another beloved?" Song of Solomon 5:9
In a lengthy reply she detailed the worth of her loved one and showed that she considered him to excel in every respect, from his head to his feet. He was, in her view, distinguished among ten thousand. She summed up his worth in these words:
"His speech is most sweet, and he is altogether desirable. This is my beloved and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem". Song of Solomon 5:16

With these principles in mind, described by God in the Song of Solomon, we know that God of Israel has the most powerful words in the world. He has the most powerful deeds for you and me. He died and saved us. That’s why we express our love to Him in return. God chose to demonstrate His love for mankind by giving of His very own self to redeem us from sin. This is the perfect love and the highest love. This is the nature of God who is LOVE.

Thus, if you have not obeyed God yet by LOVING Him and His people then do it today. This is the will of God. This is what you call Christianity. Thus, LOVE is the character of the Kingdom of God. And it is the character of those who live in the Kingdom of God. You want to enter there? LOVE God and LOVE people. Here in this parable below God Jesus teaches us to love all people. Only by loving people and the TRUE God Jesus we can inherit the Kingdom of God.

The Parable of the Good Samaritan
And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him (Jesus), saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?”
So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’”
And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”
But he, wanting to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
Then Jesus answered and said:
“A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, who stripped him of his clothing, wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. Now by chance a certain priest came down that road. And when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. Likewise a Levite, when he arrived at the place, came and looked, and passed by on the other side. But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was. And when he saw him, he had compassion. So he went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine; and he set him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and took care of him. On the next day, when he departed, he took out two denarii, gave them to the innkeeper, and said to him, ‘Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, when I come again, I will repay you.’ So which of these three do you think was neighbor to him who fell among the thieves?”
And he said, “He who showed mercy on him.”
Then Jesus said to him, “Go and do likewise.”
Luke 10:25-37

Be neighbor to your Palestinian brothers! Be neighbor to your Jewish brothers. LOVE your neighbors and brothers. And you all will be HOLY sons of the HOLY Father dwelling on the HOLY LAND called Israel and in the Kingdom of Heaven.

[bahiraomar]

السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته


Brothers,
Our God cries about our brother Osama Bin Laden.
President Barack Obama shared the news with the whole world that leader of Al Qaeda organization, Osama bin Laden, is dead.
Let’s listen to the President Barack Obama:
Good evening. Tonight, I can report to the American people and to the world that the United States has conducted an operation that killed Osama bin Laden, the leader of al Qaeda, and a terrorist who's responsible for the murder of thousands of innocent men, women, and children….We offered our neighbors a hand, and we offered the wounded our blood. We reaffirmed our ties to each other, and our love of community and country…. We were also united in our resolve to protect our nation and to bring those who committed this vicious attack to justice…And so we went to war against al Qaeda to protect our citizens, our friends, and our allies….For over two decades, bin Laden has been al Qaeda's leader and symbol, and has continued to plot attacks against our country and our friends and allies. The death of bin Laden marks the most significant achievement to date in our nation's effort to defeat al Qaeda…Bin Laden was not a Muslim leader; he was a mass murderer of Muslims. Indeed, al Qaeda has slaughtered scores of Muslims in many countries, including our own. So his demise should be welcomed by all who believe in peace and human dignity…The cause of securing our country is not complete…our commitment to stand up for our values abroad, and our sacrifices to make the world a safer place…Let us remember that we can do these things not just because of wealth or power, but because of who we are: one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. May God bless you. And may God bless the United States of America.
Yes, we all should be committed to implement the laws of justice.
But it is not always the case in this world.
We all are criminals.
We all are murderers like Osama Bin Laden.
God said if you hate your brother, you are a murderer.
We all have expressed our hatred to our brothers in different ways.
America celebrates his death. But the millions of people who are alive in this world are spiritually DEAD the same way like Osama. Those who do not conform their lives to live in peace with God and people are criminals in the eyes of God.
Should we celebrate justice which became evident upon the death of Osama?
We should MOURN because one of our brothers went to the Throne of God and he was sentenced to death. We should MOURN that one of our family members died. But we should deeply mourn about ourselves because our God Jesus is going to judge us the same way. We should mourn about millions of such brothers like Osama, living in Saudi Arabia and all over the world. But there is a hope. The light of God is shining to these brothers when they are still physically alive in this world. God does not sleep. He is calling them to repentance and His Son Jesus too. God Jesus is the ONE who is mourning the most about Osama.
Osama was judged by God Jesus for his crimes according to the Holy Scripture.
But what did he do when he saw the light coming from the pierced hands of the GOD of the universe Jesus in His Kingdom?
He was terrible disappointed that he knew God Jesus but He chose another god.
Osama offered to his god in Islam his wealth and life and even thousands of lives among which are Muslims and Americans. But knowing about God Jesus, Osama did not know God Jesus!
Hearing about God of Israel, Osama did not know this God.
Knowing about God who is God of our father Ibrahim, you Muslims do not know this God!
This God is LOVE.
This God loved you before the foundation of the world.
My brother Sazie Johnson said the other day:
I have a question for Muslims. But first let us talk.
When we do a study on love, we find that love has a need and a purpose. The purpose of love is to extend itself from one point to another. And the need that love has is to be accepted. Both the purpose of love which is to extend itself from one point to another, and its need to be accepted make it impossible for love to exist in isolation or total aloneness.
In other words, there love will die and dry-up if there is nothing to which it can extend itself. Here is the question: “If Muhammad’s god, Allah, is love, who did he love before creation? We know love cannot exist in total aloneness. Who did Allah love before creation?
It is bad to say, “Allah did not need to love anyone or anything.” That mean love is not original with Allah, but a added-on attribute after creation.
Brothers, but our Christian Allah said that He is God of LOVE!
He loves you unconditional, infinitely.
That’s why His heart is broken by seeing His son Osama going to the prison/hell.
But Osama knows now that Jesus is right. He knows that thousands of killings he made in the name of Islamic allah were a mistake. It was the result of his wrong choices.
But what did the love of our God do toward Oslama?
God have never stopped calling us -Christians- to pray about salvation of Osama. God was making our hearts to pray daily about His salvation. This God never stopped loving Osama! This God never stopped talking to Osama. Our God made the best to turn Osama to Himself.
But even our Almighty God could not violate his FREE will to choose his way.
Our God broke the heart of Osama by talking to Him but only Osama could TURN his heart to God. God did not violate his will and didn’t force him.
Because God loved him.
God said:
“ Yes, I have loved you with an everlasting love;
Therefore with lovingkindness I have drawn you.” Jeremiah 31:3
The LORD God says it to every one of us!
God’s love for you is an eternal love. It is filled with unfailing care and mercy. He does not say, “I will love you,” but “I have loved you with an everlasting love.”
In New Testament we read that the apostle John states the same wonderful truth:
“We love, because He first loved us” (1 John 4:19).
How do we know such an awesome fact is true? “In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for my sins”.
There has never been a time, or even a moment, when He did not love you.
Osama didn’t escape the Judgment of God it but you can do it. But we are able to do it. Because according to the Scripture, Ibn Allah was judged instead of us.
He descended to hell instead of you. But He brought there freedom and set people FREE. He set those people FREE who wanted to be FREE and follow God Jesus.
Even coming to hell after His death, God Jesus set the prisoners free. This God whom we Christians worship SAVES.
Jesus preached in the hell! He is God who SAVES.
God loved us and sent His Son/Ibn Allah to be the “propitiation for our sins.” God’s holiness is satisfied, and His wrath is turned away from us because of what Jesus did for us on our behalf. God’s justice has now been satisfied because His perfect, sinless Son paid our debt in full on the cross by accepting all our sins to His holy body.
God who is LOVE is God who is the consuming Fire.
His righteous indignation devours every one who is living in their own worlds governed by their own rules because such worlds are full of hatred, abomination and murders.
If God is coming, no one is able to be alive in His HOLY presence.
God’s wrath is a settled, controlled, holy, antagonism against all sin.
God says, “The soul that sins shall die!” “The wages of sin is death.”
But a righteous, just and LOVING God intervened to our lives and to the life of Osama in His sovereign grace.
“By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him” (1 John 4:9). “And the witness is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life” (5:11, 12).
God keeps saying over and over again to us, “I have loved you with an everlasting love; therefore I have drawn you with loving-kindness.” I love you and I have demonstrated that love once and forever in the death of My Son on your behalf. This is My demonstration of My grace to YOU.
We all see demonstration of death of Osama. But even the Son of this Almighty God was DEAD the same way. His heart stopped one moment. But this DEATH was demonstration of God’s LOVE.
This God DIED instead of you!
He did NOT kill thousands of Muslims and Americans.
He willingly decided to die.
This is what is contrary to violence.
This is was is grace and mercy.
This is the ONE who is worthy to be called millions of times during all our lives- AR-RAHMAN WA AR-RAHIM.
This everlasting love of God on the cross and in the heart of God gives us confidence and assurance of eternal life with Him in the New World created by Him for you:
Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth
, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away.
Also there was no more sea….
And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying,
“Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them,
and they shall be His people.
God Himself will be with them and be their God.
And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”
Then He who sat on the throne said,
“Behold, I make all things new.”
And He said to me,“Write, for these words are true and faithful.” Revelation 21: 1,3-5.

The wealthy Saudis like Osama use their oil money to promote Islam, to build mosques, to pay the salaries of preachers all over the world. And in many cases their money turns against them by killing their Muslim brothers in Pakistan and even themselves. Life of Osama is a demonstration of such way of life.. But God didn't stop LOVING us. But we will not promote terrorism and hatred. We will hate sins and love all people. We decide to love you the same way like our God loves you! We will live holy lives being SONS of God and His inheritance. We will call you to RETURN to our Father until our last day and minute in this world. We will invest our time, money, lives and hearts to establish the Kingdom of God on earth like it is in the Kingdom of Heaven. This is the will of God for your life to be HOLY like He is HOLY! But this aim should not be reached by violence but by LOVE toward Muslim brothers and all people. Because our God is God of LOVE. Allahu Mahabba

الله محبة