الكثير من النصارى يرفضون الحوار في النقاط التي تكلمت فيها مع هذا الشخص في حواري التالي .. لقد تطرقنا الى مواضيع في غاية الأهمية و نرى في حواره كيف انه بدأ يقدم التنازلات واحداً تلو الآخر .. و ليس عندي إلا أن أدعو له بالهداية .. لا تنسوه من هذا الدعاء بالغيب ..


DEXTER: wow . one friend goes , another comes and life still goes on and on
al diazgerrero: he
DEXTER: how are u my friend ?
al diazgerrero: goodmorning
al diazgerrero: fine, and you?
DEXTER: good morning to and good afternoon to me
DEXTER: am fine..
al diazgerrero: thank god
DEXTER: I wanna say am sorry for our last chat for being a lil bit tough and rude maybe,, i could feel ur patience with me is not the same as before .. so am sorry again.. i never meant u to get sad or mad at all
al diazgerrero: dont worry, everything is ok, this is normal in us humans, we need to accept our failures and forgive our failiures, and continue with our frriendship
DEXTER: i wanna share with u something happened to me today
DEXTER: i was in chatrooms looking for someone to talk to ..
DEXTER: and then someone came to me and he was 19 years old .
DEXTER: so we started talking about God and other stuff .
DEXTER: he was a christian. not that well-educated as u are , but a normal one who reads the Bible
DEXTER: and after a while I could see the clear misconceptions Bible has created in his mind regarding God .. and this thing is very normal and I will tell u what he said :
DEXTER: he said that the Bible states that there is one God in the OT ..
al diazgerrero: i am reading go on
DEXTER: and then suddenly , God decided to reveal another God - who is Jesus Christ- and that God changed his mind. I am pretty sure that he was not a crazy man since he found no verse in the Bible to tell him that the three are one . u know what I mean ..
DEXTER: so he figured out so innocently that now we have three Gods.. and not One ,.
DEXTER: and he tried for many hours to convince me in that , and then he accused me for being a stupid man .
DEXTER: i do not blame him u know
al diazgerrero: for christians this is what they call a private interpretation of the bible, that is to conclude on things they are not specificly stated
DEXTER: he never said a word out of the Bible . he was reading and quoting .
DEXTER: so my point is :
DEXTER: he never knew that there was a verse added to the bible and them omitted in the modern bibles that say God is three in one . and maybe no one told him so , and he tried his best to conclude the right faith from the bible .
DEXTER: but he sadly failed to reach Trinity the way Christians do today ..
DEXTER: God was supposed to be more clear int he Bible regardning His nature .. if He was Trinity for real .
al diazgerrero: 1 min. pls
DEXTER: ok . and I hope u understand what I mean: if someone who never heard of christianity , took the Bible and read it , and was asked to conclude the nature of God, who would never come to the form of Trinity .. but rather he would be the same as our friend here . he would conclude the same result that our friend found : God is one in OT and now He is Three Gods in NT ,, and that these three are three Gods and not one God I hope u get my point .
al diazgerrero: i get your point
al diazgerrero: you know that in christianity
al diazgerrero: there are very many small groups called churches or sects
DEXTER: aha
al diazgerrero: and each church or sect even though they all worship jesus, they differ in their main message
DEXTER: aha
al diazgerrero: for example, some of them base their creed on baptism
DEXTER: but it was supposed for the message of Jesus to be clear in the Bible and that it must not be of contraversary .. u know what I mean
DEXTER: since the main goal for JEsus that He guides humanity , then why would be vage in the Bible to see the main pillars of christianity especailly during the lifetime of JEsus
al diazgerrero: other beleviers, manke enphasis on the holy spirit
DEXTER: aha
al diazgerrero: others like the adventists
al diazgerrero: make enphasis on the ten commandments, like resting on saturday
DEXTER: aha
al diazgerrero: there are the witnesses of jehova
al diazgerrero: who say what you say
DEXTER: then why would JEsus leave us in such confusion if this is the true message of his ?
al diazgerrero: and all these different doctrines
al diazgerrero: coexist
al diazgerrero: i even go to two or three different churches
al diazgerrero: becuase they all say the truth thier own way
DEXTER: Why he just says on the cross that I atoned the sins or humanity? or maybe after resurruction ? why would he prefer to leave this secret to Paul and to reveal it to him in his dreams ?
DEXTER: and even in the story of Paul we can see the contradictions clear that make us suspect the reliability of this man to tell the truth about Jesus
al diazgerrero: i dont see that these different creeds contradict each other until they say so textually, but really beleive me, if i am said to beleive in the holy spirit that is not in dispute with the fact that i also need to obey the 10 commandments
DEXTER: i see
DEXTER: but u did not answer me
al diazgerrero: i know i have not finished
DEXTER: heeh sorry
al diazgerrero: no prob
al diazgerrero: i am trying to make sense
al diazgerrero: and its not easy ok
DEXTER: yeah
al diazgerrero: pls have mercy and patience
DEXTER: lol .. u made me laugh .. am sure I will
al diazgerrero: thanks
al diazgerrero: first i would like to make this point clear:
DEXTER: ok
al diazgerrero: us christians even though we are all, we do not all pay the same attention to all the truth stated in the bible
DEXTER: aha
al diazgerrero: i am not trying to say if this is wrong or right i am just letting you know, giving you a view, of the environment here
DEXTER: aha
DEXTER: am aware of this truth .. and it reflects in the fact that christians are not in the same faith and concept regarding Jesus and God..
DEXTER: and thier point of view differs not only in churches but from one person to another
al diazgerrero: so i am saying this because i want you to notice that if the christians being christians have trouble trying to understand each other, how more difficult it is for a none christian to understand us ?
DEXTER: yeah .. exactly ..
DEXTER: that is a fact w
DEXTER: I can feel it everyday
DEXTER: each one is quite different from the other . and u can rarely see two share the exact conceptions
al diazgerrero: have you asked yuorself why this is
al diazgerrero: ?
DEXTER: yes ,, and I found the answer is that the Bible is not being clear with these conceptions and all the creeds - or most of it - are concluded and not adopted as it is from the Bible
al diazgerrero: that is in part true
DEXTER: no offense
al diazgerrero: dont worry, you can never offend me, sometimes as i am human i can get impatient but you would never offend me
DEXTER: and I would never mean to , though sometimes it might sound so
al diazgerrero: as i said that is part true, but have you noticed what the bible says about this apparent confusion, becuase cristian don't feel confused, they disagree but they are not confused
DEXTER: am not getting the point actually .. please rephrase it
al diazgerrero: ok,
al diazgerrero: it is like like when one does not know how to speak a certain other language
al diazgerrero: when you start learning this new language you will certainly need guidance
DEXTER: aha
al diazgerrero: and the way you will learn
al diazgerrero: 1 min pls
al diazgerrero: ok, and the way you will learn is not only determined by the new knowledge you are aquiring, but also by the method and the personality of the teacher
al diazgerrero: why is this
al diazgerrero: becuase in the firts place in the way jesus planned it
al diazgerrero: he firts told his aplostols to only visit the house of israel
al diazgerrero: and it so happened that as this house rejected the doctrine of jesus
al diazgerrero: he went to other people outside
al diazgerrero: this house
al diazgerrero: and for this task he chose a different person, different in many ways, a person as different as pablo
al diazgerrero: paul
al diazgerrero: he was the chosen apostole to give the message to the gentiles
al diazgerrero: but not before that the firts apostoles did their job
al diazgerrero: that is why paul in his writings say
al diazgerrero: something like this
al diazgerrero: are we from apolo?
al diazgerrero: are we from paul?
al diazgerrero: are we from christ
al diazgerrero: ?
al diazgerrero: refering to the diferent teachers
al diazgerrero: and he adds
al diazgerrero: christ is not divided
al diazgerrero: apolo planted, and i watered, but jesus, is the one in charge of the growth
al diazgerrero: are you getting me ?
DEXTER: fine . lemmi ask this . yes i got u
DEXTER: does God change his mind ?
al diazgerrero: in his basic plan no
DEXTER: First , he was teaching someting for the jews and then sudenly he teaches something else completely
al diazgerrero: but it is written that sometimes he has changed his mid
al diazgerrero: mind
DEXTER: fine .. now tell me ..
DEXTER: what is the proove that Paul has to make us sure about what he says , and that Jesus is really teaching him , and that these are not his own inventions ?
DEXTER: u know , these things are completely dangerous , as we said , he changed the whole message of Jesus during his life time .
al diazgerrero: the only proof we have of this is that he never glorified himself he always glorified jesus
DEXTER: do u think that is a good proof to sheck thr reality of his claims ?
DEXTER: Islam glorified Jesus as well . maybe more than the Bible in many points
al diazgerrero: jesus told tomas, you beleived becuase you saw, but joyful is whom without seeing beleived
al diazgerrero: paul did not see jesus at all, and he was blind for three days
DEXTER: and what did Thomas believe ? that Jesus was God ?
DEXTER: none of the apostles believed that JEsus was God
al diazgerrero: that he was alive after being dead in the cross
al diazgerrero: no
al diazgerrero: no apostoles beleived
al diazgerrero: that is why when one apostole asked him
al diazgerrero: show us the father
al diazgerrero: jesus answered
al diazgerrero: i have been all this time with you and you still don't know me
al diazgerrero: ?
DEXTER: I have good explanation for this statement , but I prefer to talk about it later
DEXTER: now tell me .. If Jesus was God, then why would He say that Father is our God and His God ? Does God have a God ?
al diazgerrero: may ia sak you something
DEXTER: yeah sure
al diazgerrero: i ask you somthing ?
al diazgerrero: why don't you tell me what you personaly think ?
al diazgerrero: i would like to know what is your opinion, of all the things you know and have read from the bible
DEXTER: am sorry .. am back
DEXTER: ok i will answer that ..
DEXTER: Islam is a religion of knowledge .. and God in Islam encourages us to learn and read .. He encourages us to have faith after thinking , and never asked us to have blinf faith .. God in Islam gave us the mind for a main purpose : to check the validity of His teachings to be truely from God Himslef , and not a human-invention.
DEXTER: the first verse that was revealed to Muhammad was: Read in the name of Who Created ..
al diazgerrero: ok, know do you know that in order to do that you only need to use your brain
DEXTER: lemmi explain
DEXTER: haven't finished
al diazgerrero: but in the bible we are encouregd to beleive in our heart
al diazgerrero: i know
al diazgerrero: go on
DEXTER: ok thanks
DEXTER: God said in the Quran : We (in repect from of plural) shall show them our signs in the Horizons and in theirsleves till it becomes clear to them that this is the truth (my own tranlsation)
DEXTER: and as the sinece develops , Muslims become more and more sure of the Islamic message that it is the Genuine Religion from God and that all what the Quran said was absolutely correct
DEXTER: Quran said that
DEXTER: that the true message of Jesus was not mantained as it was in the time of Jesus and humanity tampered with the word of God and changed it over the ages..
DEXTER: and new discoveries of the manuscripts agree to this fact ,. therefore we have more than 14000 manuscripts not even one same as anohter ,. and u may look for that up to see it truely admitted by shcolars
DEXTER: and the Quran said another thing : that Jesus is an elect messenger of God .. and not God ..
DEXTER: and whenever we try to prove that he is God from the Bible , we can se that there is another Verse that explains the satement JEsus was trying to say ..
DEXTER: and the Quran says that Jesus never asked ppl to worship him or claimed that he is God
DEXTER: and that is quite clear in the Bible
DEXTER: and also
DEXTER: the Quran said that Jesus was not crucified , but it was made appear to them .. meaning that someone else took the likeness of Jesus and was put to death instead ..
DEXTER: and whenever ppl argue about this matter, we see that this fact is correct for many reasons .. and since we never talked about it , then I would ratehr not go throuhg it now . it is a long search