al diazgerrero: paul basically, preached about the mercy of christ
DEXTER: see what Jesus said !! TILL HEAVEN AND EARTHPASS !! and did they PASS yet ?
al diazgerrero: till all be fulfilled.
al diazgerrero: *till all be fulfilled.
DEXTER: tell me .. did they pass yet? no! at least not over me
al diazgerrero: christ fulfilled that part when he died in the cross
al diazgerrero: you see
DEXTER: my friend ,, the verse says: TILL HEAVEN AND EARTHPASS and they did not pass when Jesus died on the cross
al diazgerrero: thats the error that our friends the catholics have
al diazgerrero: they think they sacrifice jesuschrist everyday in mass
al diazgerrero: when that is unnecesary
DEXTER: and see what he says also :Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven.. HE SHALL BE CALLED THE LEAST ,, now tell me . did Paul preach the same as Jesus did ?
al diazgerrero: because his sacifice whas perfect and definitive
DEXTER: so either we preach as Jesus did , orelse we shall be called the LEAST in the Kingdom of God
al diazgerrero: when you go inside jesus, you become an inheretor of the new pact
DEXTER: and Jesus preache the Law of Moses .. while Paul destoryed the Law and considered it as a curse
al diazgerrero: the pact of the blood of jesus christ
DEXTER: my darling . where does Jesus say these things ?? !! I am wondering!
al diazgerrero: in the last supper
DEXTER: Where did he say that he shall atone for our sins ?
al diazgerrero: this is my blood the blood of the new pact
DEXTER: He never said that in the last supper .
al diazgerrero: and in fact
DEXTER: he never said that he shall atone us by his death
al diazgerrero: in the old testament
DEXTER: aha
al diazgerrero: it is written that if a man did not fulfill the law he would be cursed
DEXTER: aha , and Jesus KEPT THE LAW OF MOSES !!
al diazgerrero: what does "atone" mean
DEXTER: atone mean that some pays the penelty for other's sins
al diazgerrero: of course jesus is/was perfect
al diazgerrero: isaih 53 speaks of this matter
DEXTER: i agree that Jesus was sinless
DEXTER: but , he did not say that he shall atone us . u know what I mean ?
DEXTER: in what authority does Paul says that ?
al diazgerrero: says what ?
al diazgerrero: do you agree that when somebody makes a crime, it has to be payed for there is a punishment
DEXTER: Paul contradicted Jesus' whole life and whole preaching and contradicted the whole Law of Moses .. because God said in the Old Testiment :
DEXTER: “The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin”
Deuteronomy 24:16.
and “The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son”
Ezekiel 18:20
al diazgerrero: well john 3:16 says
al diazgerrero: that god loves us so, that he gave his son instead of us
al diazgerrero: because like in a ball game, when a player makes a mistake the hole team loses, the same way when adam sinned the hole humanity fell
DEXTER: what about the above verses ? was it a lie that we do not hold the penelty of other ppl's sin ?
al diazgerrero: that means you are responsible of your own acts
DEXTER: and who said that? it was Paul only !!! Jesus never did nor anyone in the whole old testiment
al diazgerrero: did what ?
DEXTER: did say that we are sinners and we inherit the original sin
DEXTER: each one is responsible for his own sinns
DEXTER: and that is the ultimate fair . and God is the Most Fair .
DEXTER: and we have talked about that in our previous conversation
al diazgerrero: he did not have to, because all of the sacrifices that were daily executed in the temple had exactly that intenttion to redem
al diazgerrero: they were called sacrifices of peace, wich means, they mankind or at least that nation was not at peace with the Lord
DEXTER: how do u say that ? HE DID NOT HAVE TO ??? how then can we know that !!?
DEXTER: Jesus was very sure that he is understandable to his followers and was preaching in the Temple for that reason
al diazgerrero: i think christ came to teach what we did not knew not what we already know
DEXTER: he would not leave us like that without telling is the true meaning of his message
al diazgerrero: his message is beleive in his salvation, because he came to rescue what was lost
DEXTER: and what was his salvation ? He said :“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, TILL HEAVEN AND EARTH PASS, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled"
al diazgerrero: yes, right, one of the purposses of that law was to save,
DEXTER: he did not say that his salvation was to believe in his untimate sacrifice , while Paul said that ,, Not JESUS
al diazgerrero: but it proved to fail
al diazgerrero: becuase it was necesary a perfect sacrifice
al diazgerrero: a definitev one
DEXTER: who proved that ? PAUL ??? Did God give us misguiding LAWS ?? how can u say that !
DEXTER: was God that Ignorant that He does not know what fits us and what does not 1 ?
al diazgerrero: the law was that every house father had to bring to the temple a perfect male sheep, one year old
al diazgerrero: and it also had to be the first born
al diazgerrero: that innocent animal had to die, in order that the
al diazgerrero: pay of sin was not executed
al diazgerrero: because sin is washed away with blood
DEXTER: yeah ,, I know about that law .. but u are saying that it was misleading , though it was from God .. and God is not {the author} of confusion
al diazgerrero: only blood washes away sin
al diazgerrero: it was not misleading, men are dileading
al diazgerrero: disleading
DEXTER: then it is not about the Law . but MEN ..
al diazgerrero: there couldn't be a law with out men
DEXTER: yeah ..but tell me .. was it because the Law was proven misleading, or becuase ppl are proven to be misleading ?
al diazgerrero: ppl are sinners,
DEXTER: yes we are all sinners.. i agree to that .. but are we all misleading?
al diazgerrero: remember that this old ritual law was given to the ppl, right after they left egipt
DEXTER: aha
al diazgerrero: and before that, in egipt, god commanded to mark the houses with blood
al diazgerrero: so the angel of death wouldn't touch the ppl
DEXTER: so ?
al diazgerrero: so?
al diazgerrero: you know that
al diazgerrero: for example
al diazgerrero: let me say this ok
al diazgerrero: you know little children, play with small figures of cars, animals, boats etc.
DEXTER: do u think that such a crutial thing (atonement and salvation) is unnecessary to be clearly clarified by Jesus ? but to be left to us to conclude and break what Jesus Kept through all his lifetime ?
al diazgerrero: as i said they are figures, they are not real
DEXTER: aha
al diazgerrero: they are figures that represent
al diazgerrero: the real thing
al diazgerrero: yeah, well
al diazgerrero: those first figures
al diazgerrero: the blood
al diazgerrero: the sheep
al diazgerrero: the bread
al diazgerrero: the flesh
al diazgerrero: they were all figures that represented the real thing,
al diazgerrero: that is jesuschrist
al diazgerrero: that is why jesus fullfiled that law
DEXTER: u mean that was all as a conclusion . and nothing is really clear or stated by Jesus ?
al diazgerrero: jesus, stated
DEXTER: what ?
al diazgerrero: i am the truth
al diazgerrero: i am life
al diazgerrero: i am the way
al diazgerrero: not that he was saying the truth, but that He is the truth
DEXTER: I believe that he was the truth .. i agree ,,. and in that meaning , there is no need for another truth to be said after what he says ! that is a very important statement u have just made!!
al diazgerrero: he is the real thing
al diazgerrero: he is the fulfillness of everything that was written before or after
DEXTER: he is the life , and he is the way .. that is right , what was he doing through 33 years of his life ? he was keeping the commandments to give us an example of that for us to follow
al diazgerrero: yes, his purposse, the purposse of god was to become a man and demonstrate that it is possible to obey the perfect will of god, that is the ten commandments
DEXTER: he is the life , meaning that he was living the perfect life , and if we wanna do that , we have to live the way he did by keeping the commandments.. and he is the way , meaning the way for salvation .. and what did he ask us to do ? to keep the commandments ,, and if we wanna get PERFECTION we only have to sell our belongings.. that is the meaning of the verse : I am the truth (no truth after me) and the way (the way I have lived and kept the commandment) and life ( the best life we can get was through keeping th ecommandment that Jesus Kept)
al diazgerrero: i think those verses don;t need interpretation
al diazgerrero: when he sais i am life
al diazgerrero: it means exactly that
al diazgerrero: he is life
al diazgerrero: that is why of the resurrection
al diazgerrero: it is impossible to kill life
DEXTER: yeah ,, that is right . he is life .. and what is that supposed to mean ?
al diazgerrero: that was the devils mistake,
al diazgerrero: how can anybody kill life without dying also ?
DEXTER: ?
DEXTER: are u telling me that it was the devils mstake to kill Jesus ?
al diazgerrero: if the devil knew he was precisely going to be defeated in the cross, he would of never cruciphied jesus
DEXTER: so Jesus knew that He was going to die on the cross ?
al diazgerrero: always since the begining of time
al diazgerrero: that my friend is the perfect plan of a perfect god
DEXTER: then tell me my friend ,
DEXTER: why did Jesus pray in his last night , and why did he ask his followers to sel their belongings and buy swords ? and why all that fear and sadness if he knew that he was going to die and be resurructed again ? why did he pray to the Father to let this cup pass from him ?
al diazgerrero: jesus never asked ppl to sell there belongings in order to buy swords
DEXTER: and if that was the real plan , then the last attempt made to arrest him and crucify him was not the first one actually , but many attempts were made to arrest him and kill him .. and he always escaped .. why does he have to wait ?
al diazgerrero: the fear and sadness is natural of a man who is aware that he is going to die
DEXTER: yes he did my dear !! that was in LUKE . wanna read the whole verse ? i can get it for u
al diazgerrero: because he planned his own death
al diazgerrero: remember what was celebrated when he died , or was about to die ?
DEXTER: ha ?
al diazgerrero: the great jew celebration
DEXTER: the feast ?
al diazgerrero: in memory of there liberation from
al diazgerrero: egipt
DEXTER: u mean the feast ?
al diazgerrero: yes
DEXTER: are u sure about that ?
al diazgerrero: of course my frined
DEXTER: this is a very important timing !! are u sure ?
al diazgerrero: that is so wonderful
al diazgerrero: that is why he rested on
al diazgerrero: Saturday
al diazgerrero: and the resurrection took place
al diazgerrero: the next day
DEXTER: yes so WONDERFUL!! thanks a lot my friend , ,that makes sense !! BUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DEXTER: did u know that the three Gospels MATHEW < MARK AND LUKE said that crucifiction was after the feast while John said that it was before ?????????? how can u explain that ?
DEXTER: who is telling lies and who is telling the truth ? which is the true word of God ?
DEXTER: John ? or the three other Gospels ?
DEXTER: or u never knew that ! OMG do not tell me u never knew!
DEXTER: u are supposed to be a christian !
DEXTER: and crucificiton is the basic doctrine u adopted !
DEXTER: according to Paul and not to Jesus Christ!!
DEXTER: ha ? the word of God is contradictory now !!
DEXTER: there is no explanation for that for Jesus was crucified just once!
DEXTER: John says that it was before the feast and the three others said that it was after ,, both are considered to be authentic . but authentic by whom ? God ? NO !! the church .. !! the church that added the three witnesses in the Bible to Validate a doctrine that was never there !!
DEXTER: u know what I mean now ? u know what I mean by saying we have to look for the truth?
DEXTER: do u know what I mean that we have to know what Jesus really said ?
DEXTER: I hope u understand me now
DEXTER: there is some truth in the Bible . but it is not to be taken as it is .. contradicions of that kind is all over the Bible .. we have check to know what is real and what is false . and no one will do that for us .. we have to look ourselves . thats why i share with u this seeking of truth
al diazgerrero has signed out. (18/08/142608:43م)