حواري مع نصراني

[الفارقليط]

أنقل لكم تتمة للحوار الشيق الذي دار بيني و بين النصراني المذكور في بداية مشاركتي هذه .. لقد انتهى هذا الحوار اليوم بنهاية مفجعة بعد أن أثقلت عليه الضربات فكانت آخرها التي قسمت ظهره و انهت الحوار بخروجه صامتاً من المسنجر دونما تعليق واحد !!

و الآن أترككم مع تفاصي الحوار :

al diazgerrero: goodmorning

DEXTER: ohhh hhii .. i was away

DEXTER: am sorry

DEXTER: good morning to u

DEXTER: how are u ?

DEXTER: are u still there ?

al diazgerrero: God bless you dex

DEXTER: Thanks , and may God guide us all

DEXTER: so whats up ?

al diazgerrero: how are you today i don't have time right now to talk very much, i am in the middle of something, but i wanted to say hello,

DEXTER: ko i see. am fine thanks.. have u thought of our conversation last time?

al diazgerrero: yes, very much

DEXTER: and what do u think ? do I make some sense ?

al diazgerrero: i think, think that what is imporant is that you feel good and be happy with what you beleive

DEXTER: I still have so many things to say ,, we have just begun .. and am sure we will find something at the end . something very intersteing that might change ourlives forever and we find true salvation for our souls

DEXTER: so whenever u feel free , let me know . am here for another 5 hours

al diazgerrero: well i found Jesus, (he found me) and i feel greatful for that, and for the truth he has revealed to me

DEXTER: we shall check that later . it is a long talk in that topic .. and i prefer we keep up the same way to check the reality of this statement ..

al diazgerrero: i dont intend to convince you of what i beleive in, i just want you to know that we should accept each other just the way we are, even though sometimes we dont agree in everything, that doesn't mean we can't be friends

DEXTER: sure ..

al diazgerrero:

DEXTER: do we have sometime to check on something now ?

al diazgerrero: ok

DEXTER: ok .. last time we talked about two important tthings .

DEXTER: one of them was Trinity .. and we found that neither it makes any sense nor we found any validation for this doctrine .

DEXTER: and that makes it a false one ..

DEXTER: do we agree on that ?

al diazgerrero: well, the doctrine of the 3 persons in one god is true, according to the 1letter of john

DEXTER: and what does this verse say ?

al diazgerrero: let me check ok, i am going to look in an on-line bible

DEXTER: ok

DEXTER: are u talking about the three witnesses ?

al diazgerrero: let me see

al diazgerrero: ok

DEXTER: ok

DEXTER: is this the verse u are talking about : For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”

al diazgerrero: yes and then after that it states those those three are one

DEXTER: u seem to be quite ignorant of your Bible !!! am sorry to say that but it is true ..

DEXTER: if u go and check this verse in all modern Bibles u will never find it

al diazgerrero: i knew you were going to say that hahahaha

DEXTER: why ? it is not there in the Revised Standard Version

DEXTER: u see !! u are unable to validate this doctrine !! and yet u believe it is true!

al diazgerrero: you know something

DEXTER: yeah

al diazgerrero: do you remember the passage where martha was busy while maria was at the feet of jesus listening to him

DEXTER: hmm where was that ?

al diazgerrero: what jesus says is that very few things are important

DEXTER: what did he say ?

al diazgerrero: that few things are important

DEXTER: ? am not getting ur point

DEXTER: u there ?

al diazgerrero: someone called me, exxcuse me. i am back

al diazgerrero: you should read the passage for yourself

al diazgerrero: these to women were the sisters of lazaro

al diazgerrero: the one that jesus brought back to life

DEXTER: where was that ? what book ? what verse ?

al diazgerrero: i don't remember right now the chapter or verse, but what it tells me

DEXTER: ok .. what does it say ?

al diazgerrero: is that for meanings of salvation you do not to beleive everything, and it is not necessary to have useless discussions

DEXTER: yeah yeah ,, that is in John's Gospel

al diazgerrero: *do not have to beleive everything

DEXTER: lemmi check this strange statement ,. Hold on !!

al diazgerrero: the only tru important thing is to listen to Him

al diazgerrero: ok?

al diazgerrero: i said that is what i understand in that message

al diazgerrero: my "own" comprehension

DEXTER: ok gimme time to check on it

al diazgerrero: go on

DEXTER: now i got the chapter .. which verse are u talkin about ?

DEXTER: is it in the same chatpter of bringing the dead man alive ?

al diazgerrero: when Jesus was in there house, one of the women prefered to do the housekeeping while the other decided to listen to Him

al diazgerrero: and besides that the woman that was cleaning the house was in a very bad mood

DEXTER: what verse is that ? could u please help me ? i can not find such a statement

al diazgerrero: let me check ok

DEXTER: ok

al diazgerrero: one minute please

DEXTER: it is chapter 11 , John

DEXTER: there is no such a verse , right ?

al diazgerrero: not there, i did not say it was in the same chapter or book where the miracle was made

al diazgerrero: i am looking somwhere else

DEXTER: ok .. take ur time ..

DEXTER: but trust me Jesus never made such a statement telling others to have blind faith . rather he was always there in the middle of crowds reasoning the Jews and never asked for blind faith

al diazgerrero: i am not speaking of blind faith,

al diazgerrero: may i ask you something ?

DEXTER: yeah sure

al diazgerrero: in time of sorrow, what do you prefer, a word of wisdom or a word of love

DEXTER: am not getting the point

DEXTER: and what has this to do with that ?

al diazgerrero: that God is the truth, and also love

al diazgerrero: and where the spirit of God is there is also liberty

DEXTER: Exactly .. and se should not neglect that He is the truth besides being Love !

DEXTER: if He is the trueth , then shy should we adopt doctrines God never mentioend ?

al diazgerrero: but my friend...Love is the truth

DEXTER: if Love is the same as using our mind, then there was no need for the first commandment to be the way it is: to Love thee Lord with all thee HEART AND MIND !!!

DEXTER: This AND means that we have to use our minds too in this love .

DEXTER: and using this mind means that we should not accept anything anyone says !! unless it is validated by God !

al diazgerrero: yes but it also means that we need to learn

al diazgerrero: we learn with our mind

al diazgerrero: we can't do something we ignore

DEXTER: and what is the first source for this task of learning ? isn't it Gd's word ?

al diazgerrero: and learning is a process that lasts a liftime

DEXTER: While God never mentioned that He was 3 in 1 . why should we say that ?

DEXTER: Is God that disabled to state this very important statement ?

DEXTER: no!

al diazgerrero: ok

DEXTER: then , Trinity , or three persons in one , are nothing but an addition the word of God !

al diazgerrero: let's think you are right

al diazgerrero: what next

al diazgerrero: what is your point

DEXTER: just like the three wintesses are added to the Bible after 10 centuries of Jesus departure, that means christianity is not as genuine as we think it is . and we have to look and search to realize the truth between the lines

DEXTER: i hope that u be patient with me my friend .

al diazgerrero: hey, i like you as a friend

DEXTER: and trust me , am not trying to unglorify Jesus .. no! because He said: who Loves me keeps my words

al diazgerrero: but i beleive in jesuschrist

DEXTER: and I am trying to keep Jesus's words

DEXTER: and I believe in Jesus Christ too and I wanna know what Jesus really said !

al diazgerrero: and i dont need your guidance

DEXTER: so do we agree that Three persons in one is not a valid doctrine in the Bible and it is just an addition to it ?

al diazgerrero: what he did or said is in the bible

DEXTER: u sound angry at me

al diazgerrero: i am not

al diazgerrero: i just don;t understand why something like beleiving in the love of God is the cause of so many steril discussions

DEXTER: I wanna love God .. and Jesus said : IF u love me , u keep my words .. and that means: if we do not keep his words , then we do not love him . .do u undertand the seriousity of this statement ?

al diazgerrero: if you are convinced of what you beleive that should be enough for you, i am convinced about what i read in the bible

al diazgerrero: keeping his words means obedience

al diazgerrero: to obey his words

DEXTER: that is a very important statement u made : i am convinced about what i read in the bible .. and where did u find the three persons in the Bible ?

al diazgerrero: and i don't think you are ignorant

DEXTER: not ignorant at all . hopefully

al diazgerrero: where i told you before, at the beginning of our chat

DEXTER: so tell me .. do we agree or do we not , that this doctrine is not genuine and was added to christianity later on

DEXTER: because either we prrove it , or we ignore it

al diazgerrero: many things were added later

al diazgerrero: many

DEXTER: exactly!!!! many !! and we are gonna find out the true religion of Jesus Christ ..

DEXTER: the truth about his message !

al diazgerrero: many books were written, and it was necesary to choose from the books that were inspired by god and those that were not

al diazgerrero: the letter of santiago says

al diazgerrero: that the true religion is to visit widows and feed and dress the orphans

DEXTER: and that can never be done except we see what he did or say .. only then we know what Jesus really wanted us to believe

DEXTER: let me ask u something .. and that is very logic ..

al diazgerrero: yes

DEXTER: if I want to know what George Bush said , where do I search in the first place ?

DEXTER: do I search in the writings of someone esle ?

DEXTER: no! the first place to search is the writings of George Bush himslef

al diazgerrero: it is diffrent becuase Jesuschrist never wrote anything

al diazgerrero: by himself

DEXTER: yeah i agree ..

DEXTER: and that is my point! He never wrote anything, but ppl wrote down what he said .

al diazgerrero: and very little

al diazgerrero: becuase he was with them for three long years

DEXTER: so if Jesus said that God is one and never mentioned that God is three persons in one .. then someone comes and says that Jesus ment to say this statement , but he was unable to say it . would we believe that?

al diazgerrero: and i don't think that in three years Jesus did only what is written but many more things

DEXTER: the first source to look is the sayings and deed of Jesus Christ .

DEXTER: if it is not there , then it should not be anywhere else !! is that right or what ?

al diazgerrero: what jesus said, when an apostole asked him to show them the Father, he aswered clearly: I have been all this time with you, and you still don't recognize me?

DEXTER: so u want to move to discuss scriptures ?

DEXTER: just to concentrate on something ..

DEXTER: shall we move to this step ? have we hand enough for the first step ?

al diazgerrero: i am only chatting with you

al diazgerrero: you tell me i tell you

DEXTER: yeah .. I am too and wanna seek the truth with you if u don't mind

DEXTER: u said that many things were added to the message of Jesus , and we wanna check it out together . what do u say ?

DEXTER: in that way we know what we loved our Lord with both our hearts and minds

al diazgerrero: i never said that words were adde

al diazgerrero: added

DEXTER: and if i am disturbing u , them i am sorry .. we can stop whenever u want .

al diazgerrero: books -new- books were written

DEXTER: and statements also were added to these books .. just like the three wintesses were added to validate Trinity

al diazgerrero: after the old testament 27 new books were added those are the new testament

DEXTER: so tell me . are u with me in this Journey of truth seeking ?

DEXTER: u may wuite whenever u feel am wrong

al diazgerrero: everyday

DEXTER: quite**

al diazgerrero: i seek the truth through the word of god

DEXTER: or u can reason me . the way I shall reason u .. just like theLord said in Isaiah

al diazgerrero: and the word -bible-

DEXTER: we shall seek the truth in the Bible too . not outside resources

al diazgerrero: never contradicts itself

DEXTER: thats why , whatever outside the Bible should not be taken

DEXTER: do we agree on this ?

al diazgerrero: i never read anything else than the bible when i am seeking the truth

DEXTER: u have made a very clear and inportant statement : the Word of God never contradict itself !! that is one of the most importnat things we shall depend on in our seeking the truth in the Bible . do we agree ?

DEXTER: do we agree or not ?

al diazgerrero: i think that you are still seeking while i already found

DEXTER: does that mean u do not wanna reason me ? am I talking nonesense ?

al diazgerrero: no, i am hera to listen to you

DEXTER: thank you a lot my friend

al diazgerrero: *hear

al diazgerrero: here to listen

DEXTER: so. as we have just said , Three persons in One is not in the Bible . therefore , this is not a genuine doctrine that Jesus preached ..

al diazgerrero: did you know that God is Supernatural

al diazgerrero: what Jesus preached was love

al diazgerrero: love

DEXTER: that is the first step in our research

DEXTER: we shall check on this statement in our chat

DEXTER: so now . tell me .. did Jesus preach the original sin ?

al diazgerrero: wait please

DEXTER: ok tyt

al diazgerrero: something obvious...

al diazgerrero: do you believe in Jesus

al diazgerrero: i ask

DEXTER: just in the rate I believe in God . if I do not believe in Jesus , then I do not believe in God

DEXTER: I believe in Jesus, Moses , Abraham , Noah and all other prophets of God whom He sent

DEXTER: I deny none !

al diazgerrero: have you ever confessed it with your mouthi a prayer

DEXTER: more than 5 times aday

al diazgerrero: *in a prayer

DEXTER: in all sitiuations

al diazgerrero: read the letter to the romans in chapter ten

DEXTER: here now I tell u : I beleive in God , Jesus , Moses, Abraham and other prophets God sent

al diazgerrero: verse 9

DEXTER: lemmi check it

DEXTER: this is the saying of Paul .. not Jesus !

DEXTER: i wanna know what Jesus said ..

DEXTER: what Jesus preached

DEXTER: in his whole missionary life he never mentioned this statement

DEXTER: in all his missionary life he never asked ppl to stick to other things rather to keep the commandments .. whenever Jesus was asked for the path for salvaion , he said : keep the commandments .

al diazgerrero: one moment

DEXTER: and Jesus himself was the best example for keeping the commandment that he kept for 33 years and never broke any .. and never ever mentioned that he was God , or asked ppl to worship him , or asked ppl to believe in his atonement on the cross ..

DEXTER: he never said that we should throw the commandments away that he kept his whole life through 33 years .. and when someone asked him for PERFECTION , what did he say??? He say : Sell your belongings !! see! e never mentioned any belief in his atonement on the cross . he never mentioned that we only have to believe him on corss atoning for our sins and we get the true salvation .. but asked us to keep the commandments .. only that ! keep the comadments !! not to believe in his atonement on the cross

al diazgerrero: 1 min pls*

DEXTER: take ur time