DEXTER: so lets start .. which topic wanna start ?
DEXTER: I would rather stick to one topic all day , and maybe in the nest couple of talks too
al diazgerrero: we already startde
al diazgerrero: *sarted
al diazgerrero: started*
DEXTER: well .. how about we talk about the devinity of Jesus ?
al diazgerrero: i am going to tell you something that you need to notice and check in the bible
DEXTER: aha
al diazgerrero: everytime in the hole bible, God never ever loses he is perfectly wise and perfectly everything, the mistakes are all from men
DEXTER: I know that this topic is almost prohibited to discuss for most of the christians.. but we said we wanna be close to perfection. ok ?
al diazgerrero: if you read carefuly
al diazgerrero: you will find that the human being lies
DEXTER: aha
al diazgerrero: for example
al diazgerrero: when the rich youngman, askes jesus, what does he need to do in order to earn the eternal life
al diazgerrero: this passage is right after the one where jesus blesses the children
al diazgerrero: remember?
DEXTER: AHA
al diazgerrero: well, jesus told him that it was necessary to follow the commandments
DEXTER: AHA
al diazgerrero: the young man, asked wich commandments,jesus answered: the commandments, the ones that are in the book of exodus chapter 20
DEXTER: aha
al diazgerrero: he did not speak like thi ok, these are my own words
al diazgerrero: and then the young man
DEXTER: yeah .. i remember
al diazgerrero: answered, i follow all of them since i was a boy
al diazgerrero: one of the commandments clearly states that we must love our neighbors
DEXTER: AHA
al diazgerrero: and the youngman said that he foolowed those commandments
al diazgerrero: but
al diazgerrero: when jesus told him to sell everything and give it to the poor
al diazgerrero: he became sad
al diazgerrero: why
al diazgerrero: because
al diazgerrero: we
al diazgerrero: the human beings
al diazgerrero: LIE
DEXTER:
al diazgerrero: we say we do something according to our opinion, but when jesus tests us we prove we are not being honest with ourselves
DEXTER: am not really sure about this statement u have made..
DEXTER: but lets take it as it is .
al diazgerrero: then how do you explain that the young man is saying that he follows the commanment, and when he is asked to exactly do so, to give to the poor he does not do it but instead he goes away
DEXTER: and according to that , when ppl lie and they are not honest with themselves and us , isn't that a good reason to check every single word they say ?
al diazgerrero: is that a contradiction of tthe word of God
al diazgerrero: or of the word of men ?
DEXTER: am still not getting ur point where is the contradiction here ?
al diazgerrero: that he first claims that he follows the commandment
DEXTER: this is not the contradiction am talking about
al diazgerrero: and when the author of this commandment askes him to fulfill it he does not
DEXTER: I was talking about contradictions that can never be both correct .. for example the contradiction of the timing of the crucifiction ..
DEXTER: this is what I am talking about .
al diazgerrero: i know you are not refering to this contradiction, but it is an example,of how to hanlde what we apparently seee as contradictions in th ebible
DEXTER: one said something , while another said something different . and there is no way to compromise them both together . this is what I mean by contradiction
al diazgerrero: but jesus was evidently cruciphied, yes?
DEXTER: we shall check on it ,, this is not our topic .. i would rather not comment
al diazgerrero: may i ask you something
DEXTER: go ahead ..
al diazgerrero: what do you beleive in ?
DEXTER: I did not say yes or no . i am still seeking with u ,,
DEXTER: if we found out that JEsus was really crucified , then fine , we shall take it
DEXTER: u know what I mean? i do not let pre-establilshed believes to control my reseach ,,
DEXTER: thats all .. and I do not want to declare pre-statements unless we search for it
al diazgerrero: ok, but you have not ansewered my question
DEXTER: 1 min
al diazgerrero: ok
DEXTER: my friend . if I told u from the beginning that Trinity is a false doctrine and it was added to the Bible later, you would not listen to me all this time . so thats why I would not prefer to declare anything without any search ..
DEXTER: we search and then we declare . u know what I mean ?
al diazgerrero: don't be afraid of being honest with me, i will not reject you
DEXTER: that is the step-by-step research we wanna go through
DEXTER: I do not wanna tell u what I wanna go to , so that u have pre-understanding that whatever I say is not true .
DEXTER: u know what I mean ? at the end . either u take it , or u just refuse it from the beginning
al diazgerrero: what you are doing is sincere, you must know we don't find God, God finds us. and if you have this interest is because God himself put this in your heart
DEXTER: and at the end , it is just a talk .. maybe would have some effects and maybe not
al diazgerrero: don't worry, trust me, my faith does not depend on you, you have the right to beleive what you prefer
DEXTER: yeah thats right .
DEXTER: 1 min
al diazgerrero: yeah, trust me, you will never offend me
DEXTER: back .
DEXTER: well my friend . u asked for honesty and u will have it ..
al diazgerrero: i was just trying to help you, thats why i was asking you, what do you beleive un, so that way we can start from your own point of view
DEXTER: I am a Muslim .. and I am interested in religion study and comparision .. I talk to ppl and check with them and share with them what I have . so either They take or they refuse it .. do not pre-judge me nor Islam .. we are talking about Jesus that we both share in our belief
al diazgerrero: but if you are muslim, you dont beleive in jesus as god
al diazgerrero: because the koran is very specific about that
DEXTER: see !! thats what I do not wanna be . we are pre-judging and declaring without any study ,, u know what I mean ?
al diazgerrero: yes, but i accept you
DEXTER: we wanna check everything step by step ..
al diazgerrero: i will tell you a secret
DEXTER: and if u are interested also , we can arrange some talks about Islam too
DEXTER: go ahead
al diazgerrero: a special secret
DEXTER: aha
DEXTER: ?
al diazgerrero: some years ago about ten or more, i dont remember exactly... i used to drink and use drugs, and i quit his 6 years ago, i used to smoke crack and get very very drunk
DEXTER: aha
al diazgerrero: and God, rescued me from this, and one of the main ways he used was teaching me tolerance and love to the people
al diazgerrero: i would never reject you, for your religion or for anything else
DEXTER: thanks
al diazgerrero: because if God did not reject me i do not have the right to reject anybody
al diazgerrero: i did not learn this in christianity
DEXTER: aha
al diazgerrero: i learned this with a special place group of people
al diazgerrero: that donot care who you are, where you come from, or what you beleive in
al diazgerrero: they are only interested in helping
DEXTER: yeah ..
al diazgerrero: and even though they all belong to different cultures and religions they work together, in this task of helping people like me,
DEXTER: i see that is rare to find among christians
al diazgerrero: and they toght me this very very important matter, to accept everyone just as thay are
DEXTER: do u have a computer at home ?
al diazgerrero: when they work togheteher they don;t work as christians or muslims or anything, they work as alcoholics anonymous
al diazgerrero: yes i have a pc at home
DEXTER: actually i wanna send u something by mail..
al diazgerrero: ok
DEXTER: one of the books which are interesting ..
al diazgerrero: i love reading
DEXTER: it is titled: What did Jesus really say ? ..
DEXTER: it is an islamic book of course ..
DEXTER: and it answers back almost everything
al diazgerrero: ok
al diazgerrero: ok
DEXTER: It does a better job than our talks in here .
DEXTER: but we can still discuss things here also
al diazgerrero: i think that our job is fine
al diazgerrero: because we are talking of the most important matter of all
al diazgerrero: God
DEXTER: yeah . that is right ..
DEXTER: what is your email address
DEXTER: ?
al diazgerrero: you know why mankind can never absolutely agree in everything?
DEXTER: aha ?
al diazgerrero: biblicly because
al diazgerrero: God himself, when mankind tryed to reach heaven by there own means through the babel tower, He sent a spirit of confussion
al diazgerrero: this confussion works exactly the way we are witnessing now a days
DEXTER:
DEXTER: well . disagreeing with u does not change anything , whatever .
al diazgerrero: i did not understand
al diazgerrero: hehe
DEXTER: I mean , I disagree to this statement , but that does not change anything .
DEXTER: so lets go back to where we are .. shall we ?
al diazgerrero: it's ok with me
DEXTER: ok great
DEXTER: in our research of knowing God , we found out that Trinity is not geniunly from the Bible..
al diazgerrero: aha
DEXTER: now before discussing the Devinity of Jesus , we wanna check something by our minds
al diazgerrero: yes
DEXTER: what does the word " Son of God" mean ? i mean .. does it mean that Jesus is God ?
DEXTER: like for example , in order to know what the word "Son" mean , we have to check the meaning of it
al diazgerrero: go on
DEXTER: Son is a word that means another entity from the father that share the basic nature of the source (father) and has the same properties that define the father , and also is from the same substance too ..
DEXTER: do we agree ?
al diazgerrero: yes
DEXTER: and when we say : son of cow , that means definitely a cow ..
al diazgerrero: ok
DEXTER: and son of camel , that means definetly a camel
DEXTER: and there is no way to say that a camel gave birth to a cow or vise versa
al diazgerrero: ok
DEXTER: therefore , Son of God , should mean definitely God like his father
DEXTER: u know what I mean ?
al diazgerrero: yes
DEXTER: something esle we wanna see ..
al diazgerrero: yes
DEXTER: having a son means that father (source) have given birth to the son.. in one way or another ..
DEXTER: we shall not discuss the way how father gave birth to son ,. but we shall take it as it is
al diazgerrero: yes
DEXTER: now beget is an action verb ..
DEXTER: and that means : it separates the time to three main parts..
DEXTER: before the act , during the act , and after the act
al diazgerrero: yes
DEXTER: and there is no way to combine these times and mix them since the act separates them ..
DEXTER: now the Bible states that God has no beginning , nor an end .. and that one of the things that define od from other things ..
DEXTER: only God has no beginning nor an end .. this is one of the properties that define God ..
al diazgerrero: yes
DEXTER: and if we took for granted that God begot a son .. then this son as we have seen must share the basic properties that define the father ..
al diazgerrero: and?
DEXTER: because son means the same as father .. basically .
DEXTER: but the verb beget separated time and however we tried to go back in eternity , there will be time before the act ..
DEXTER: and in that way , there would be no way for the son to share the basic definitions from the father .. because son must have a beginning..
DEXTER: and in that manner , son loses one of the definitions to be God . u know what I mean ?
al diazgerrero: yes
DEXTER: therefore , Muslims say that God is one and has no Son ..
DEXTER: and it is logically acceptable .
al diazgerrero: yes
DEXTER: now .. after this logic check we can ask a very important Q .
DEXTER: while we can see God decalring many times that He is God (in the Bible)
al diazgerrero: yes
DEXTER: and while we can see God asking us in the Bible to worship Him,
DEXTER: can we see Jesus decalring that He is God , or asking ppl to worship him ?
DEXTER: and that is a very important Q ..
DEXTER: can we?
al diazgerrero: no
al diazgerrero: except in the book of revelations
DEXTER: then.. what makes Jesus to be God ? there must be some declaration for that belief to be adopted . and Revalation is a dream . and not a declaration by Jesus . u know what I mean
al diazgerrero: yes
DEXTER: now lets check the things that made Jesus God .. one by one and discuss it together ,
al diazgerrero: ok
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