بارت ايرمن يعترف بنبوة محمد عليه الصلاة و السلام

السلام عليكم اخوتي

عنوان مثير اليس كذلك ؟؟؟؟
:image5:

هو في الواقع حقيقة ...
كيف ؟؟؟؟؟؟؟ بارت ايرمن اشهر عالم نقد نصي يعترف بمحمد عليه الصلاة و السلام ؟؟؟؟؟؟
مستحيييييييييييييييييييييييييييييييييييل
بل اعترف ...
من فضلك اشرح لنا ...
حاضر :)

في كتابه " كيف اصبح المسيح اله " how jesus became God

قال بارت ايرمن ... ان المسيح تنبأ بشخص آخر سيأتي من بعده
و ان دور المسيح ليس كما يفهمه المسيحيون

و هذا الشخص الآخر الذي سيأتي بعد المسيح ... سيكون قوي جدا
و يقيم مملكته على الارض

و بعد فترة .... سيعود المسيح ... ليكون من ضمن مملكة هذا الشخص الآخر

وضحت الصورة ؟؟؟؟؟
:)
عروستي

يا اخوة ...
هذا اعتراف من اشهر عالم في المسيحية
يجب ان ينشره المسلمون و الله ...

مهم جداااااااااااااااااااااااااااااااااااااااااااااااااااااااااا ااااااا

ساحاول ان آتيكم بنص كلامه في الكتاب

bart ehrman says in " how jesus became God : dissimiliarity and the message of jesus

what of you have sayings in which jesus is not identified as the son of man ????
even better .....
what if you have verses in which jesus appears to be speaking about someone other than himslef as the son of man ?
those are verses not likely that christians would make up >>> because they believed he is the son of man
look again at the sayings above ?>> there is no hint that jesus is speaking about himself when he refers to the son of man coming to judge earth
readers naturaly assume jesus is talking about himself >>> because they already believe he is the son of man
but nothing in those sayings would make anyone to make the identification
these sayings are not phrased the way early christians would have been likely to invent
if they rather than jesus had come up with

WHO DID JESUS THINK HE WAS

my interest in this book on theological religious question

of how and when jesus came to be thought of as God
and my argument is that its not what jesus spent his days preaching at all
on the contrary

the burden of his message was an apocalyptic proclamation
of coming destruction and salvation he declared the son of man would be coming on the clouds of heaven (Mohammed peace on him israa miraaaj"
very soon in judgement of earth

and people need to be prepared

for the new kingdom which is to come in which the righteous would be vindicated
but what about jesus ???
the messanger himself ?
what would be his role in the coming kingdom of the son of man ( Mohammed peace on him )

jesus's self messsianic understanding """""""

i think there are excellent reasons to believe jesus thought of himself as the messiah
the messiah thought to be the ruler of people of israel
but as apocalyptist
jesus didnt think the future kingdom is going to be won by political struggle
it was going to be brought by the son of man (Mohamed peace on him )
then the kingdom would arrive
then i believe jesus thought he would be the king in that kingdom ( of that other man )


يا اخوة هذا موضوع مهم جداااااااااااااااااااااااااااااااااااااااااااااااا
بارت ايرمن و الله كلامه هذا معناه خطيييييييييييييييييييييييييييييييييييييييييييييييير جدا

يثبت الاسلام بما لا يدع مجال للشك
و لو قراتم كل الكتاب ستزدادوا عجبا

كيف ان هذا الشخص الآخر ... سيحضر دينونة على جميع الناس
حكم الله في جميع الناس

الله اكبررررررررررررررررررررررررررررررررررررررررررررررررررررررررر ررررررررررررررررررررررررررررررررررر
الله اكبررررررررررررررررررررررررررررررررررررررررررررررررررررررررر ررررررررررررررررررررررررررر

لأننا أمـة الدليل
فضلا أخي الكريم ضع لنا رقم الصفحة المُقتبس منها الكلام و أيضا رابط الكتاب إن أمكن

السلام عليكم اسلامي عزي

المشكلة انني بحثت عن هذا الكتاب لم اجده الا في التورنت
و الامتداد للكتاب ليس pdf
انما epub

ممكن انت تحمله عن طريق التورنت
اعمل بحث في اي موقع تورنت على how jesus became God
ستجد الكتاب بصيغة و امتداد epub

هذا الكلام قنبلة بكل معنى
لا ادري كيف غفل عنها المسلمون
ربما لان الكتاب جديد نوعا ما

https://isohunt.to/torrent_details/1...ub-Mobi-Gooner

هذا رابط التورنت

و لكن ستحتاج الى برنامج لقراءة الكتاب
لان امتداده epub

للامانة اخي الكريم :
المؤلف لم يذكر اسم النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم اطلاقا في كتابه

كل ما قاله الدكتور بيرت ايرمان هو ان المسيح عليه السلام لم يقل عن نفسه انه ابن الانسان و لا حينما كان يبشر به
و ذكر ايضا ان المسيح عليه السلام كان يعتقد انه المسيح و ان القيامة اقتربت و ان باقترابها سياتي شخص يدعى ابن الانسان و هو الذي سياتي بمملكة الله و الذي سيكون حاكمها عيسى عليه السلام
كما انه ذكر في كلامه ان عيسى عليه السلام لم يكن يؤمن بان الصراع السياسي هو الحل الذي سيقام على اساسه مملكة الله

و اما وجود اسم النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم في الاقواس فهي قد تكون بسبب تعليق احد المسلمين علي النص مما قد يكون السبب الذي اوهمك بان بيرت ايرمان ذكر اسم النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم غفر الله لك

السلام عليكم اخي محمد السني :)

كلام جميل اخي ...
اولا انا اعلم ان بارت ايرمن لم يذكر اسم الرسول عليه الصلاة و السلام
فهو ملحد اساسا ... و هذا اقوى دليل انه محايد ... و ليس منحاز للاسلام

ثانيا : عندما يقول ... عيسى و دوره ليس كما يظن النصارى ... بل عيسى كان يبشر بشخص آخر سيأتي من بعده
هذا الشخص الآخر هو من سيقيم مملكة الله ... الحقيقية ... التي كان ينتظرها اليهود بدلا من حكم الرومان

ثم يقول ... دور عيسى .. انه سيعود ... و يحكم و يكون ملك في هذه المملكة ... مملكة الرجل الآخر

هذا بالضبط ما يقوله المسلمون
ضد عقيدة النصارى تماما

نصيحتي لك اخي الحبيب ... اقرأ الكتاب اولا ... ثم احكم بنفسك

if you think Jesus is the cosmic judge, you would have no difficulty coming up with sayings in which Jesus is identified as the Son of Man. But what if you have sayings in which Jesus is actually not identified as the Son of Man? Even better, what if you have sayings in which it appears that Jesus is talking about someone other than himself as the Son of Man? Those are sayings that Christians would have been less likely to make up, since they thought he was the Son of Man.
Look again at the sayings given above. In none of them is there any hint that Jesus is talking about himself when he refers to the Son of Man coming in judgment on the earth. Readers naturally assume that he is talking about himself either because they believe that Jesus is the Son of Man or because they know that elsewhere the Gospels identify him as the Son of Man. But nothing in these sayings would lead someone to make the identification. These sayings are not phrased the way early Christians would have been likely to invent if they, rather than Jesus, had come up with them.
Or consider another saying, from Mark 8:38. Pay close attention to the wording: “Whoever is ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of that one will the Son of Man be ashamed when he comes in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.” Now, anyone who already thinks that Jesus is the Son of Man may casually assume that here he is talking about himself—whoever is ashamed of Jesus, Jesus will be ashamed of him (that is, he will judge him) when he comes from heaven. But that’s not actually what the saying says. Instead, it says that if anyone is ashamed of Jesus, of that person the Son of Man will be ashamed when he comes from heaven. Nothing in this saying makes you think that Jesus is talking about himself. A reader who thinks Jesus is talking about himself as the Son of Man has brought that understanding to the text, not taken it from the text.
This is probably not the way an early Christian would have made up a saying about the Son of Man. You can imagine someone inventing a saying in which it is crystal clear that Jesus is talking about himself: “If you do this to me, then I, the Son of Man, will do that to you.” But it is less likely that a Christian would make up a saying that seems to differentiate between Jesus and the Son of Man. This means the saying is more likely authentic.
My second example is from one of my favorite passages of the entire Bible, the story of the last judgment of the sheep and the goats (Matt. 25:31–46; this is from M). We are told that the Son of Man has come in judgment on the earth, in the presence of the angels, and he sits on his throne. He gathers all people before him and separates them “as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats” (25:32). The “sheep” are on his right side and the “goats” on his left. He speaks first to the sheep and welcomes them to the kingdom of God that has been prepared especially for them. And why are they allowed to enter this glorious kingdom? “Because I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me” (25:35–36). The righteous are taken aback and don’t understand: they have never done these things for him—in fact they have never even seen him before. The judge tells them, “Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me” (25:40). He then speaks to the “goats” and sends them away to the “eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels” (25:41), and he tells them why. They didn’t feed him when he was hungry, give him a drink when he was thirsty, welcome him as a stranger, clothe him when he was naked, visit him when he was sick and in prison. They too don’t understand—they have never seen him before either, so how could they have refused to help him? And to them he says, “Truly, I say, to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me” (25:45). And so we are told that the sinners go off to eternal punishment and the righteous off to eternal life.
It is a spectacular passage. And it almost certainly is something very close to what Jesus actually said. And why? Because it is not at all what the early Christians thought about how a person gains eternal life. The early Christian church taught that a person is rewarded with salvation by believing in the death and resurrection of Jesus. The Apostle Paul, for example, was quite adamant that people could not earn their salvation by doing the things the law required them to do, or in fact by doing anything at all. If that were possible, there would have been no reason for Christ to have died (see, for example, Gal. 2:15–16, 21). Even in Matthew’s Gospel the focus of attention is on the salvation that Jesus brings by his death and resurrection. In this saying of Jesus, however, people gain eternal life not because they have believed in Christ (they have never even seen or heard of the Son of Man), but because they have done good things for people in need. This is not a saying that early Christians invented. It embodies the views of Jesus. The Son of Man will judge the earth, and those who have helped others in need will be the ones who will be rewarded with eternal life.

My interest in this book, however, is on a theological/religious question of how (and when) Jesus came to be thought of as God. And my argument is that this is not what Jesus himself spent his days teaching and preaching during his public ministry. Quite the contrary, the burden of his message was an apocalyptic proclamation of coming destruction and salvation: he declared that the Son of Man would be coming on the clouds of heaven, very soon, in judgment on the earth, and people needed to prepare for this cataclysmic break in history, as a new kingdom would arrive in which the righteous would be vindicated and rewarded for remaining true to God and doing what God wanted them to do, even when it led to suffering.

Jesus’s Messianic Self-Understanding


IN VIEW OF THIS discussion, what can we say about how Jesus most likely understood himself? Did he call himself the messiah? If so, what did he mean by it? And did he call himself God? Here I want to stake out a clear position: messiah, yes; God, no.
I think there are excellent reasons for thinking that Jesus imagined himself as the messiah, in a very specific and particular sense. The messiah was thought to be the future ruler of the people of Israel. But as an apocalypticist, Jesus did not think that the future kingdom was going to be won by a political struggle or a military engagement per se. It was going to be brought by the Son of Man, who came in judgment against everyone and everything opposed to God. Then the kingdom would arrive. And I think Jesus believed he himself would be the king in that kingdom.