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MrsClaus92
את עכשיו מסתדרת , נו תתחילי לדון בעברית או באנגלית , אבל עדיף באנגלית .
תרשמי את השאלות שלך ובעזרת השם יענו לך חברי הפורום הנכבדים .
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ok, I can't read anything in this website so I feel a little blindfolded... but I'll trust my new friend Dalia and say my peace.
Dalia came onto a website of Qaraim and we began a discussion there as to whether or not the Torah holds prophecies about Islam...
Qaraim is the original form of Judaism... before the holy book was contaminated by Greek influences, the people of Israel were all Qaraim i.e., if it sounds similar to the word Quran it is because it means the same thing... Quran means the thing to be read, right? (forgive my bad arabic...) Qaraim means- the readers... same root of the word- Q.R.A..
so I will debate in favor of Judaism, and I invite you to debate against me for Islam... let's pray to "the El" (in arabic "Allah, correct) to give us wisdom to decipher his will.
your sister
Mrs. Claus
Welcome Mrs Claus
It is a pleasure to discuss this issue with you in the forum
Just to be sure you are a Jewish not a Christian
?
In The Name Of Allah, The Most Gracious, The Most Merciful
Visit the linkÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
ok, I can't read anything in this website so I feel a little blindfolded... but I'll trust my new friend Dalia and say my peace.
http://www.ebnmaryam.com/vb/f60
end
http://www.ebnmaryam.com/vb/f96
Muslims believe that the Bible is fromÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
Qaraim is the original form of Judaism... before the holy book was contaminated by Greek influences, the people of Israel were all Qaraim i.e., if it sounds similar to the word Quran it is because it means the same thing... Quran means the thing to be read, right? (forgive my bad arabic...) Qaraim means- the readers... same root of the word- Q.R.A..
allah, and also believes that the typeface
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Ibn Abbas reported: The Messenger of Allah peace be upon him and Rafi b. Haritha, and Sallam b. Mishkam and Malik b. al-Sayf and Rafi b. Huraymila and they (the Jews) said to them: O Muhammad, do you not allege that you follow the way of Abraham and his religion, and believe in what we have from the Torah and testify that it is the truth from Allah? The Messenger of Allah peace be upon him replied: Yes, however you have innovated and broken the covenant contained therein and concealed what you were ordered to make clear to people, and I dissociate myself from your innovations. They said, 'We hold by what we have. We live according to the guidance and the truth and we do not believe in you and we will not follow you.
ÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
so I will debate in favor of Judaism, and I invite you to debate against me for Islam... let's pray to "the El" (in arabic "Allah, correct) to give us wisdom to decipher his will.
We welcome all questions about great Islam
:007:
Call unto the way of thy Lord with wisdom and fair exhortation, and reason with them in the better way. Lo! thy Lord is Best Aware of him who strayeth from His way, and He is best aware of those who go aright. (125)
Question:
Why do you defend on Judaism, do belong to Israel!
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Mrs Claus
If we say that Islam is the international version of Judaism
What do you think about this sentence
?
ok, thank you Dalia for translating for me which button is the "reply" one...
3abd- my religion should not matter for the sake of the argument, because I don't speak on behalf of my religion but on behalf of myself alone.
nevertheless, since you asked, I will tell my background:
I was born a jew in Israel. my mother is an orthodox jew, my grandfather (her father) was an esteemed Rabbi and there is even a synagogue built to commemorate his name.
my father is an Atheist
my husband is a Christian. I left Israel when I married him and we live in Kansas, U.S.A.
I don't consider myself religious at all. (meaning I have no religion) however I do consider myself a religion scholar.
I studied Judaism in Bar Ilan university in Israel and I studied for a second degree in Pittsburg State University in Kansas. as part of that degree I studied World's Religions which includes Hinduism, Budhism, Zoroastrianism, Daoism, Judaism Christianity Islam and Mormonism.
I also took classes on the history of the church (i.e. the emergence of Christianity to the Reformation)
could Islam be the international form of Judaism? well, that is what we came to explore, no?
in the Qaraim forum Dalia started a thread with the question what is the meaning of the verse: "נָבִיא אָקִים לָהֶם מִקֶּרֶב אֲחֵיהֶם, כָּמוֹךָ; וְנָתַתִּי דְבָרַי, בְּפִיו, וְדִבֶּר אֲלֵיהֶם, אֵת כָּל-אֲשֶׁר אֲצַוֶּנּוּ" .
she suggested that
מקרב אחיהם
refers to Isaac's brother Ishmael. she also quoted: "וְזֹאת הַבְּרָכָה, אֲשֶׁר בֵּרַךְ מֹשֶׁה אִישׁ הָאֱלֹהִים--אֶת-בְּנֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל: לִפְנֵי, מוֹתוֹ. ב וַיֹּאמַר, יְהוָה מִסִּינַי בָּא וְזָרַח מִשֵּׂעִיר לָמוֹ--הוֹפִיעַ מֵהַר פָּארָן, וְאָתָה מֵרִבְבֹת קֹדֶשׁ; מִימִינוֹ, אשדת (אֵשׁ דָּת) לָמוֹ"
saying that Mt. Pa'aran is Mecca therefore the scripture refers to the emergence of Islam from Mecca
she also quoted: "יֵּשֶׁב, בְּמִדְבַּר פָּארָן; וַתִּקַּח-לוֹ אִמּוֹ אִשָּׁה, מֵאֶרֶץ מִצְרָיִם."
from which she deducts that the people living in Mecca are descendents of Ishmael (supported by Hadith, Quran, and Sunah, according to her)
lastly, Dalia quoted: "לְיִשְׁמָעֵאל, שְׁמַעְתִּיךָ--הִנֵּה בֵּרַכְתִּי אֹתוֹ וְהִפְרֵיתִי אֹתוֹ וְהִרְבֵּיתִי אֹתוֹ, בִּמְאֹד מְאֹד: שְׁנֵים-עָשָׂר נְשִׂיאִם יוֹלִיד, וּנְתַתִּיו לְגוֹי גָּדוֹל. "
and explained that God blessing to Ishmael is basically giving him the ability to tell prophecy, which was given down to his descendants from him.
to start the discussion here, do you agree with her interpretation of the scriptures so far?
ÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
ÇáãÔÇÑßÉ ÇáÃÕáíÉ ßÊÈÊ ÈæÇÓØÉ ÓãÜÇÍ
Mrs Claus if you want evidence that Paran is Mecca,I can so simply paste for you ancient maps showing that Paran is Mecca
and Alhijaz
Please when you write hebrew verses from the old testament , please paste also their English translation and mention their exact location in the Bible
But I just would like to mention one point before discussing whether Prophet Muhammed PBUH is mentioned or not in the OT
What I meant by saying Islam is the international version of judaism is that both Islam and Judaism are similar to each other
The faith in both religions is almost identical, the cornerstone of faith in both religions is the absolute oneness of God and in both religions it is believed that God sent prophets to mankind and inspired to them scriptures
Both religions are different from christianity, because christians believe in trinity
Moreover, there are many other aspects of similarity between Islam and Judaism, both muslims and Jews have a law in their religion, there is some kindof similarity between prayers in islam and Judaism
But Judaism has been a religion only for the jews, the jews didn't think that their religion is a religion for all mankind, till now there are only about 12 million jews world wide
Muslims believe that islam is the last religion and that it is a religion for the whole humanity, there are 1.5 billion muslims today
This is what I meant by islam is the international version of judaism
So my question is,why shouldn't a jewish person believe in Islam
?
Why should a jewish man believe that Moses, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Hezzekiel are prophets from God but he shouldn't believe in Jesus and Muhamed Pbuh as prophets sent by God
?
If the faith of absolute oneness of God in both Judaism and Islam is the true faith
Which religion should I believe to be the religion that God wants us to believe in
?
A religion with 12 million followers or a worldwide religion with 1.5 billion followers?
Hope you are able to understand my idea
Waiting for your comment to proceed to whether Prophet Muhamed Pbuh is prophecized or not in the jewish scriptures and if you would like we can even discuss the christian scriptures
Dear All
Assalamu Alaikom
I would like to welcome Mrs Claus92 and wish her a
useful time here .
I pray to Allah that HE guides her to the right path - Amen
I thought it may be useful to refer Mrs Claus92 to this useful book which I believe will make things clearer for her to debate on solid grounds and information
W 200+ ways the Quran Corrects the Bible: How Islam Unites Judaism and Christianity
http://www.ebnmaryam.com/web/modules...cat=7&book=407
Enjoy exchanging information while I follow
Regards
Where are you Mrs Claus? Hope that you are ok
"The faith in both religions is almost identical, the cornerstone of faith in both religions is the absolute oneness of God"
Judaism and Islam are not the only 2 religions believing in the one God that is all good that sends prophets... take Zoroastrianism for instance... would you say that Islam is the international version of Zoroastrianism?
"Christians believe in trinity"
actually, Catholics believe in the Holy Trinity, and they are not considered Christians by all other denominations (Baptists, Pentecostals, Lutherans etc.)
What would you say of Jehovah's witness for instance?
"But Judaism has been a religion only for the jews, the jews didn't think that their religion is a religion for all mankind, till now there are only about 12 million jews world wide"
actually, Jews believe God created all humanity and we are all descendants of Noah. God commanded Noah's sons with only 7 commandments; therefore any human observing these 7 commandments will go to heaven. Jews, however, were set apart from the rest of mankind because God wanted to prove his power through preserving the smallest, most powerless nation of those days, throughout history. all the great empires have fallen but the ancient jews survived. had you told the great Assyrians of the Acadians etc. that the jews will survive to the 20th century while all empires will disappear- it would have been as if you would have told them that water will turn into blood. It's a miracle because it is so inpossible and it is reason God chose the jews: "The LORD did not set His love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people but for ye were the fewest of all peoples"Deuteronomy 7:7Jews cannot convert others into their own religion and are not commanded to, so their chances of survival are even smaller. On the other hand it makes Judaism very peaceful- all holy wars in the world were conducted by Catholics or Muslims, trying to convert the whole world into their religion, murdering, imprisoning, torturing others, but Judaism continued to exist through it all without forcing one man to convert to Judaism.
"So my question is,why shouldn't a jewish person believe in Islam?"Because then they will not be jews any more. They will be Muslims. If that were to happen Jews will be extinct and God will be made a liar who canot prove his existence through preserving his people through history.
"Why should a jewish man believe that Moses, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Hezzekiel are prophets from God but he shouldn't believe in Jesus and Muhamed Pbuh as prophets sent by God"God gave signs to distinguish between a true prophet and a false one. He said he will send false prophets to test us, and that they will perform miracles etc. but they will persuade us to believe in a different religion and that is how we shoud know they are false: "If there arise in the midst of thee a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams--and he give thee a sign or a wonder,and the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spoke unto thee--saying: 'Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them';thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or unto that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God putteth you to proof, to know whether ye do love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul."Deduteronomy 13:2-4
ÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
ÇáãÔÇÑßÉ ÇáÃÕáíÉ ßÊÈÊ ÈæÇÓØÉ MrsClaus92
Yes, I would say so
According to islam, we believe that there is one God who sent many prophets, at least a prophet to every nation according to the Holy Quran
The first thing that every prophet said to his nation :There is only one God, so worhip him and don't worship any other gods with him
In the Holy Quran, God told us about the stories of some of the prophets, others we were informed nothing about them
Since Zoroastrianism teaches that there is only one God whose name is Ahura Mazda according to this religion and since Zoroaster taught the people that there is only one God, I think that he may be one of the prophets whom we were informed nothing about
According to islamic belief,every prophet was sent all to his nation except prophet Muhamed Pbuh who is the last prophet and who is sent to whole mankind
This is why I agree that islam is the international version of Zoroastrianism and any other religion teaching that there is only one God
ÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
"Christians believe in trinity"
actually, Catholics believe in the Holy Trinity, and they are not considered Christians by all other denominations (Baptists, Pentecostals, Lutherans etc.)
What would you say of Jehovah's witness for instance
Surely most of the christians believe in trinity
Although Jehovah's witness don't believe in the trinity ,they still believe that Jesus is the son of God
According to islam and Judaism , God has no son in the sense that Jesus is the son of God according to christian faith even the faith of Jehova's witness
So still their faith is different from Judaism and Islam
Well , can you tell me what are these 7 commandmentsÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
"But Judaism has been a religion only for the jews, the jews didn't think that their religion is a religion for all mankind, till now there are only about 12 million jews world wide"
actually, Jews believe God created all humanity and we are all descendants of Noah. God commanded Noah's sons with only 7 commandments; therefore any human observing these 7 commandments will go to heaven. Jews, however, were set apart from the rest of mankind because God wanted to prove his power through preserving the smallest, most powerless nation of those days, throughout history. all the great empires have fallen but the ancient jews survived. had you told the great Assyrians of the Acadians etc. that the jews will survive to the 20th century while all empires will disappear- it would have been as if you would have told them that water will turn into blood. It's a miracle because it is so inpossible and it is reason God chose the jews: "The LORD did not set His love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people but for ye were the fewest of all peoples"
Deuteronomy 7:7
Jews cannot convert others into their own religion and are not commanded to, so their chances of survival are even smaller.
¿
Anyway if according to your belief, people from other religions will go to heaven if they do these 7 commandments, so I as a muslim may go to heaven even if my religion is wrong and your religion is true
Meanwhile, according to my religion you will be in great trouble and you will never be to heaven if you don't believe in islam
This means that you have to be very careful when taking the decision of not believing in Islam, because if your decision is wrong you will be in great trouble
If you are taking the long survival of the jews as an evidence to prove that your religion is true, both christians and muslims can do the same
A christian can say that the Romans who used to kill the early christians would never have imagined that after 2000 years there will be about 2 billion christians all over the world
As a muslim, I can say that the unbelievers from Quraysh, the tribe of prophet Muhamed Pbuh, would never have imagined that after 1400 years muslims will become 1.5 billion all over the world
So I think that what you are saying about the long survival of Jews can't possibly be evidence that judaism is true and that you should not believe in Islam
I think you are kiddingÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
On the other hand it makes Judaism very
peaceful- all holy wars in the world were conducted by Catholics or Muslims, trying to convert the whole world into their religion, murdering, imprisoning, torturing others, but Judaism continued to exist through it all without forcing one man to convert to Judaism.
"
Don't you know anything about the battles of Moses, Joshua and David
?
Here is the battle plan according to judaism
Let's read from Deutromony 20
10 When thou drawest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it.
11 And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that are found therein shall become tributary unto thee, and shall serve thee.
12 And if it will make no peace with thee, but will make war against thee, then thou shalt besiege it:
13 and when Jehovah thy God delivereth it into thy hand, thou shalt smite every male thereof with the edge of the sword:
14 but the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take for a prey unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which Jehovah thy God hath given thee.
15 Thus shalt thou do unto all the cities which are very far off from thee, which are not of the cities of these nations.
16 But of the cities of these peoples, that Jehovah thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth;
17 but thou shalt utterly destroy them: the Hittite, and the Amorite, the Canaanite, and the Perizzite, the Hivite, and the Jebusite; as Jehovah thy God hath commanded thee;
18 that they teach you not to do after all their abominations, which they have done unto their gods; so would ye sin against
Jehovah your God.
You can find a comparision between the rules of battle in Isalm and Judaism at this link
:
http://norasensation.wordpress.com/2...dren%E2%80%9D/
So if prophet Muhamed Pbuh is a true messenger from God, you are not allowed to believe in him and you must believe that he is a liar and if the Quran is really from God you must believe that it's man made, so that Jews surviveÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
So my question is,why shouldn't a jewish person believe in Islam?"
Because then they will not be jews any more. They will be Muslims. If that were to happen Jews will be extinct and God will be made a liar who canot prove his existence through preserving his people through history.
?
Or probably God can never send prophets except to the Jews so that he preserve his people through history
?
Anyway according to islam, the jews were one day the peopple of God, but they disobeyed him , they worshipped other Gods, they did many mistakes, they even killed or tried to kill some of God's prophets like prophet Jesus Pbuh, so God punished them by not considering them his people anymore and by sending prophet Muhamed, the final prophet sent to whole mankind, from the arabs not the jews and now the jews are no more the people of God, they were replaced by muslims
I think you must be joking
ÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
"Why should a jewish man believe that Moses, Jeremiah, Isaiah, Hezzekiel are prophets from God but he shouldn't believe in Jesus and Muhamed Pbuh as prophets sent by God"
God gave signs to distinguish between a true prophet and a false one. He said he will send false prophets to test us, and that they will perform miracles etc. but they will persuade us to believe in a different religion and that is how we shoud know they are false: "If there arise in the midst of thee a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams--and he give thee a sign or a wonder,and the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spoke unto thee--saying: 'Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them';thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or unto that dreamer of dreams; for the LORD your God putteth you to proof, to know whether ye do love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul."
Deduteronomy 13:2-4
According to what you quoted from the bible,prophet Muhamed is surely a true prophet because prophet Muhamed Pbuh taught us to worship one God ,the God of Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus
The Holy Quran even states that our God (our refers to muslims) and your God(your refers to jews and christians) is the same God
Let's read from the Holy Quran
:
And argue not with the People of the Scripture unless it be in (a way) that is better, save with such of them as do wrong; and say: We believe in that which hath been revealed unto us and revealed unto you; our God and your God is One, and unto Him we surrender. S. 29:46 Pickthall
So Prophet Muhamed Pbuh never said : let's go after other gods, but he taught us to worship your God, the God of Abraham and Moses
Another evidence from your scriptures that we can use to prove that prophet Muhamed Pbuh is really a messenger of God is in Deutromony 18
:
21 And if thou say in thy heart, How shall we know the word which Jehovah hath not spoken?
22 when a prophet speaketh in the name of Jehovah, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which Jehovah hath not spoken: the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously, thou shalt not be afraid of him.
So we can simply see whether the prophecies of prophet Muhamed Pbuh really happened or not
?
If they have really happened, you must believe that he is a true prophet according to your scriptures
Would you like us to have a look at some of the prophecies of prophet Muhamed Pbuh to see whether he is a true prophet or not
?
How could Islam be a direct continuous of all religions claiming there is but one God, when they say different things? Zoroastrianism claims God created the world but he did not create Satan (how could he create evil if he is all good…)
Satan created demons and witches and monsters to destroy the creation of God…Zoroastrianism says God created one human being, and after he died and was buried, a plant grew out of his bones and Adam and Eve grew out of that plant…You are still incorrect saying that most Christians believe in the trinity. Christians believe in God and believe Jesus is his son born of a mortal woman, Jesus refers to himself as the "Son of Man" in the New Testament. Christians believe he is the suffering Messiah and that he is one with God, in the same way that one man has both a body and a torso – one God is the holy spirit and Jesus. There's actually a lot of evidence to support that belief- in Genesis 1, God is a spirit, hovering over the water (Gen 1:2), but the spirit of God can "wear" people, just like you can put on clothes… (Judges 6:34 for example) and God shows up in human form even in Genesis- Adam and Eve hear him WALKING in the garden- not hovering… Jacob is described wrestling with A MAN- that has thighs, head, body, feet, toes… yet he calls that place "The face of God" (Hebrew PneiEl) and explains: "for I have seen God face to face" and just think of it, God created man in his image… so what would God's image be??? Only Christians believe in 3 gods as in the sense of the holy trinity, and some Christians don't even believe Jesus is divine.So… Jehovah's witness believe and preach the faith in one God only, but Islam is not the international version of Jehovah's witness because Jehovah's witness say something that isn't in line with Islam- i.e. that Jesus is God's son. So how is Islam in line with Zoroastrianism or any other monotheistic religion if they say things that are not in line with Islam, for example, that Satan created the Genies, rather than that Allah created them from fire?According to Quran, Abraham did not place Isaac on the alter but rather, it was Ishmael (since Isaac wasn't born yet)- it is not in line with Judaism, so how is it an international version of Judaism?In Judaism, God promises to punish the wicked of his people, but never to utterly abandon them, never to stop being their God, even if they break their covenant with him- he will remember his everlasting covenant with them- how is that in line with Islam claiming God deserted the Jews for their iniquities???The 7 commandments of the sons of Noah are:Prohibition of Idolatry
Prohibition of Murder
Prohibition of Theft
Prohibition of Sexual immorality
Prohibition of Blasphemy
Prohibition of eating flesh taken from an animal while it was still alive
Establishment of courts of law
If you keep them, then you shall go to heaven, but if a Jew will convert to Islam and adhere to these commandments, he will not go to heaven but be punished… why? Because the Jews were commanded by many more commandments, such as observing Passover and the Day of Atonement, not lighting a fire on the Sabbath, teaching their sons about the Exodus, respecting their parents, not eating the fruits of a tree the first 7 years, not charging interest on loans etc… so a jew will be in a lot of trouble if he converts from Judaism J"Anyway if according to your belief, people from other religions will go to heaven if they do these 7 commandments, so I as a muslim may go to heaven even if my religion is wrong and your religion is true
Meanwhile, according to my religion you will be in great trouble and you will never be to heaven if you don't believe in islam
This means that you have to be very careful when taking the decision of not believing in Islam, because if your decision is wrong you will be in great trouble"you said Islam is the international version of Judaism… kind of a "Judaism for the masses"… if a person is already a jew, already believes in one God and one God only, why- according to Islam- would he need to convert to Islam? Þõáú íóÇ Ãóåúáó ÇáúßöÊóÇÈö ÊóÚóÇáóæúÇ Åöáóìٰ ßóáöãóÉò ÓóæóÇÁò ÈóíúäóäóÇæóÈóíúäóßõãú ÃóáóøÇäóÚúÈõÏó ÅöáóøÇ Çááóøåó æóáóÇ äõÔúÑößó Èöåö ÔóíúÆðÇ
æóáóÇ íóÊóøÎöÐóÈóÚúÖõäóÇ ÈóÚúÖðÇ ÃóÑúÈóÇÈðÇ ãöøä Ïõæäö Çááóøåö ÝóÅöä ÊóæóáóøæúÇ ÝóÞõæáõæÇÇÔúåóÏõæÇ ÈöÃóäóøÇ ãõÓúáöãõæäó ﴿٦٤﴾Jews believe in god, they just don't accept Allah as his messenger. So if according to your belief, Jews will go to heaven if they believe in one God, so I as a jew may go to heaven even if my religion is wrong and your religion is true,meanwhile, according to my religion I would be in great trouble and I will never be to heaven if I believe in Islam.This means that I have to be very careful when taking the decision of believing in Islam, because if my decision is wrong I will be in great trouble…Christians and Muslims have been around for a very short time in comparison, the only other religion that exists since the days of the bible is Paganism in Eastern Asia. Christianity and Islam grew into a world embracing empires in the same way that Catholicism dominated the earth during the dark ages. Catholicism is now reduced to dominating the Vatican state- a state in the size of 500 square meters. Yes, meters, not even kilometers… other great empires have risen and fallen too. Where is the Greek empire and its Helenism? Where is the Roman empire today? The Ottoman empire? Alexander the great? What happened to the huge MedoPersian empire? What happened to Napoleon? The Holy Roman Empire of Charles V that dominated nearly the entire world? they were all like flames that grew high and fast then burned out and disappeared, it is therefore reasonable to deduct that the Christian denominations and Islam will die out just as Jesus and Muhammad died. Judaism, however, neither grew nor shrunk, it remains constant throughout time, Judaism lives on as long as God is alive because it does not lean on the credibility of a person- Jesus, Muhammad, Joseph Smith etc, but on the mere existence of a deity. Any prophet can be voted a liar and Judaism will remain standing still because it bares no effect on the question of whether God exists or not. But if I prove to you that Muhammad was delusional- either possessed or mentally unstable, Islam will be crushed. If I find the decomposing body of Jesus- Christianity will go out the window, but no truth or discovery can destroy Judaism. Therefore the survival of the jews serves as proof to the existence of that deity, i.e. God. Not as evidence to the legitimacy of this prophet or another. In other words, Jews exists proves God exists, if Jews were to convert to Islam there would be no Jews. If Jews don't exist it is proof God doesn't exist either.Moses Joshua and David never fought to coerce people to abandon their gods nor their beliefs. They fought to conquer a land- the legitimate and only way to acquire land until the middle of the 19th century… conquering land is not a religious crusade, it’s a fight for limited resources. Nevertheless the jews never aspired to conquer all the lnd in the world and claim it their empire… even politically speaking it is a peaceful nation. The jewish nation saught only one small state for their nomad tribes to settle down in. Jews respect other nations' rights to a land of their own just as they stand firm in their own right to the same: Deuteronomy 2: God commands the Jews not to try to conquer mount Seir- for it is a land belonging to the children of Esau. Not to try to conquer the Moab desert, because it is a land belonging to the children of Lot and so on. The Jews only fought for a small land for themselves, they keep out of other people's business, land and faith. It is the only live and let live monotheistic religion in the world."So if prophet Muhamed Pbuh is a true messenger from God, you are not allowed to believe in him and you must believe that he is a liar and if the Quran is really from God you must believe that it's man made, so that Jews survive"If Muhammad was a true prophet jews would have accepted him, as they did Ezekiel, Jeremiah, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Habakkuk, Zephaniah and so so many others… but Muhammad is not a true prophet therefore he was rejected."But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or which he speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die." (Deuteronomy 18:20)
Here you have 2 ways to spot a false prophet: a person who either delivers a message that does not come from God or speaks in the names of false gods must be a false prophet. But this means that Muhammad was a false prophet, since he did both when he delivered the "Satanic Verses."… on at least this one occasion, Muhammad preached the word of Satan, which was in line with his own desires, at the same time claiming it was the word of God- though God never commanded him to speak it…
"I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken."
~MUHAMMAD (Al-Tabari 6:111)
Do you expect God's people to please Him by believing in a false prophet, or do you believe that genuine prophets can indeed deliver false revelations and speak in the names of false gods (in this case- Satan)Why didn't the Muslims accept Sabbatai Zevi? What's good for the Muslims is not good for the jews?
if there were solid reasons to conclude that Muhammad was a reliable messenger of God, the Jews would have probably suppose that Islam is true. However, if there are strong reasons to question Muhammad’s trustworthiness, would you then reject his teachings?What if I told you there is a good reason to suspect that Muhammad suffered from either mental disease or demonic influence?The earliest Muslim writings and traditions, including the Qur’an, Ibn Ishaq’s Sirat Rasul Allah, the Sahih Al-Bukhari, and the Sahih Muslim, provide abundant warrant for rejecting Muhammad as a prophet. All these are primary source documents and they show that Muhammad was often violent and ruthless towards those who insulted him (not God, but him himself...) that he received revelations allowing him to transgress other revelations in the Qur’an, (prophecy expired? Or double standards?) that he felt contempt towards women, that was slave trading, that he permitted violence towards women, and that one of his sexual partners was a nine-year-old child. Muhammad declared that lying is acceptable if it is used to make peace… doesn't it make you wonder how often he lied while preaching his message, for the sake of creating peace and uniting Christians, Jews and Pagans?In addition to all this, there are reasons to suspect that Muhammad suffered from either mental disease or demonic influence. The evidence from the earliest accounts of his life shows that he may have been psychologically or spiritually unstable before, during, and after his conversion to Islam. Considering this instability how can Islam be a rational system of belief?evidence that Muhammad was imbalanced goes all the way back to his childhood. His parents died when he was young, so he was brought up by his grandfather and his uncle. Muhammad had a nurse who took care of him prior to his mother’s death. This nurse told about this strange event that occurred during Muhammad’s childhood:Some months after our return [Muhammad] and his brother were with our lambs behind the tents when his brother came running and said to us, "Two men clothed in white have seized that Qurayshi brother of mine and thrown him down and opened up his belly, and are stirring it up." We ran towards him and found him standing up with a livid face. We took hold of him and asked him what was the matter. He said, "Two men in white raiment came and threw me down and opened up my belly and searched therein for I know not what." So we took him back to our tent.His father said to me, "I am afraid that this child has had a stroke, so take him back to his family before the result appears." So we picked him up and took him to his mother who asked why we had brought him when I had been anxious for his welfare and desirous of keeping him with me. I said to her, "God has let my son live so far and I have done my duty. I am afraid that ill will befall him, so I have brought him back to you as you wished." She asked me what happened and gave me no peace until I told her. When she asked if I feared a demon possessed him, I replied that I did." (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah (The Life of Muhammad), A. Guillaume, tr. (New York: Oxford University Press, 1980), p. 71-72)
Muhammad’s nurse wasn’t the only one to fear demonic possession on the part of Muhammad; the Prophet himself came to the exact same conclusion when he began receiving revelations from Gabriel. A full account of Muhammad’s first encounter with Gabriel is given in the Sirat Rasul Allah:When it was the night on which God honored him with his mission and showed mercy on His servants thereby, Gabriel brought him the command of God. "He came to me," said the apostle of God, "while I was asleep, with a coverlet of brocade whereon was some writing, and said, ‘Read!’ I said, ‘What shall I read?’ He pressed me with it so tightly that I thought it was death; then he let me go and said, ‘Read!’ I said, ‘What shall I read?’ He pressed me with it again so that I thought it was death; then he let me go and said ‘Read!’ I said, ‘What shall I read?’ He pressed me with it the third time so that I thought it was death and said ‘Read!’ I said, ‘What then shall I read?’—and this I said only to deliver myself from him, lest he should do the same to me again. He said:‘Read in the name of thy Lord who created,
Who created man of blood coagulated.
Read! Thy Lord is the most beneficent,
Who taught by the pen,
Taught that which they knew not unto men.’So I read it, and he departed from me. And I awoke from my sleep, and it was as though these words were written on my heart."So far so good, except for the violent manner in which Gabriel brought the message to Muhammad. But Muhammad’s interpretation of the event is quite revealing. His first impression of his encounter was that he had been possessed; as a result, Muhammad quickly became suicidal:Now none of God’s creatures was more hateful to me than an (ecstatic) poet or a man possessed: I could not even look at them. I thought, Woe is me poet or possessed—Never shall Quraysh say this of me! I will go to the top of the mountain and throw myself down that I may kill myself and gain rest.Muhammad tried to throw himself off a cliff, but he was stopped by Gabriel. He later became suicidal again when no additional revelations came.Now tell me that this is not the behavior of a mad man, belonging in a nut house: "he was sitting on a chair in between the sky and the earth. I was so frightened by him that I fell on the ground and came to my family and said (to them), Cover me! (with a blanket), cover me!" (Sahih Al-Bukhari , Number 3238.)
And what is this? Epilepsy? "When the Ka’ba was rebuilt, the Prophet (The blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) and Abbas went to carry stones. Abbas said to the Prophet (The blessing and peace of Allah be upon him): "(Take off and) put your waist sheet over your neck so that the stones may not hurt you." (But as soon as he took off his waist sheet) he fell unconscious on the ground with both his eyes towards the sky. When he came to his senses, he said: "My waist sheet! My waist sheet!" Then he tied his waist sheet (round his waist) (Sahih Al-Bukhari , Number 3829.)
Cold sweat??? "Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) sweated in cold weather when revelation descended upon him" (Sahih Muslim, Abdul Hamid Siddiqi, tr., Number 5763.)
High fever??? A’isha reported: When revelation descended upon Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) even during the cold days, his forehead perspired.[8]Breath Holding Spells will cause your face to turn blue… it's another sign of Epilepsy: Ubada bin Samit reported that when wahi (inspiration) descended upon Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him), he felt a burden on that account and the color of his face underwent a change. (Ibid., Number 5766.)
The satanic versus show:Muhammad’s reception of revelations was influenced by his personal desires;
He received a revelation from Satan;
He proclaimed the revelation as a message from Allah;
He and his followers bowed down in honor of receiving the revelation; and
God’s response was, in effect, "Don’t worry about it Muhammad. All prophets proclaim Satanic messages from time to time."
God’s response to Muhammad was incorporated into the Qur’an:"And We did not send before you any apostle or prophet but when he desired, the Shaitan made a suggestion respecting his desire; but Allah annuls that which the Shaitan casts, then does Allah establish His communications, and Allah is Knowing, Wise."Hence, Satan was capable of influencing both Muhammad and, allegedly, all the prophets before him. But Satan wasn’t the only influence on Muhammad. A Jewish magician named Labid was also able to exercise control over the "Seal of the Prophets."Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) narrated: "Once the Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) was bewitched so that he began to imagine that he had done a thing which in fact, he had not done."Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) narrated: Magic was worked on Allah’s Apostle (may the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) so that he used to think that he had had sexual relations with his wives while he actually had not. Then one day he said, "O Aisha, do you know that Allah has instructed me concerning the matter I asked Him about? Two men came to me and one of them sat near my head and the other sat near my feet. The one near my head asked the other: ‘What is wrong with this man?’ The latter replied, ‘He is under the effect of magic.’ The first one asked, ‘Who has worked magic on him?’ The other replied, ‘Labid bin Al-Asam, a man from Bani Zuraiq who was an ally of the Jews and was a hypocrite.’ The first one asked, ‘What material did he use?’ The other replied, ‘A comb and the hair stuck to it.’"Ibn Ishaq also reports that "Labid bin A’sam . . . bewitched the apostle of God so that he could not come at his wives." Guillaume adds a note saying that, according to tradition, "the spell lasted for a year."According to the earliest and most reliable Muslim writings and traditions, Muhammad’s first impression of his divine encounter was that he had been possessed by demons. This encounter disturbed Muhammad so much that he became suicidal. Further, we have a story in Ibn Ishaq, the earliest biography of Muhammad, maintaining that the childhood nurse of the Prophet also thought that he might be demon-possessed. Some of the details of Muhammad’s encounter seem to support this conclusion. He was sometimes terrified of his revelations, screaming for someone to cover him. He would sweat profusely even in the cold, and his face would change color. Additionally, Muhammad could not distinguish genuine revelations from Satanic revelations, and he was the victim of a debilitating magic spell that probably lasted a year.this evidence is entirely sufficient for a rational person to seriously doubt Muhammad’s reliability as a prophet. A man who (admittedly) proclaimed verses from Satan and fell victim to sorcery while declaring himself to be God’s greatest messenger should not be trusted without exceptionally good evidence to support his claim. Since no such evidence for Islam exists, it is justified to question his role as God’s messenger.Moreover, when examining the life of another messenger of God, Jesus of Nazareth, we find that Muhammad is to be utterly rejected. Consider one of Jesus’ many encounters with demons:They went to Capernaum, and when the Sabbath came, Jesus went into the synagogue and began to teach. The people were amazed at his teaching, because he taught them as one who had authority, not as the teachers of the law. Just then a man in their synagogue who was possessed by an evil spirit cried out, "What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy us? I know who you are—the Holy One of God!""Be quiet!" said Jesus sternly. "Come out of him!" The evil spirit shook the man violently and came out of the man with a shriek.The people were all so amazed that they asked each other, "What is this? A new teaching—and with authority! He even gives orders to evil spirits and they obey him."Contrary to what the Qur’an suggests, not all of God’s messengers were the occasional puppets of Satan. The New Testament- which Muslims believe in, gives the account of at least one who had complete authority over demons. If we have to choose which messenger to listen to, is it not reasonable to trust the one who terrified demons with his presence? Furthermore, Jesus warned his followers that "many false prophets will appear and deceive many people."Not all false prophets deliberately deceived their disciples, however. Some were led by Satan to do so, and the evidence strongly suggests that Muhammad falls into this category. Even his own followers said that he was bewitched."Or probably God can never send prophets except to the Jews?"God can send prophets to other nations and he has done so- Abimelech king of Grar for example, and Balaam Be Beor for another. God also has a promised land saved for other nations but the Jews as stated earlier… God created all humanity and loves them all. He may have separate covenants with others and send them prophets etc. that doesn't mean that he did not single out the Jews to prove his existence through them, and use them as a light to the nations so that eventually the whole world will believe in him (not that the whole world will become Jews… that is simply un necessary)"Anyway according to islam, the jews were one day the peopple of God, but they disobeyed him , they worshipped other Gods, they did many mistakes, they even killed or tried to kill some of God's prophets like prophet Jesus Pbuh, so God punished them by not considering them his people anymore and by sending prophet Muhamed, the final prophet sent to whole mankind, from the arabs not the jews and now the jews are no more the people of God, they were replaced by muslims"God can see into the future and he did. He foresaw that the Jews will disobey him and announced what will happen to them- they will be punished. Terribly. But then they will be forgiven and restored. They will never be replaced. Do you suppose God to be a liar promising an eternal covenant to the Jews? Or is he not all knowing and didn't know what will happen in the future to change his mind?
Ok, Mrs Claus , I'll answer you within few days insha Allah (If God wills)
The answer will take time from me to write so I prefer waiting till the weekend on Saturday
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ÇáãÔÇÑßÉ ÇáÃÕáíÉ ßÊÈÊ ÈæÇÓØÉ MrsClaus92
Well Mrs Claus, to make the issue clear to you again, we believe in one God who sent prophets to people to inform them that he is the only God, and there's no other God beside him
According to our belief, God sent a prophet to every nation, he informed us about some of these prophets in the Quran and others he didn't inform us about
Each prophet was only sent to his people and his nation but the last prophet who is prophet Muhammad Pbuh was sent to the whole mankind and whoever doesn't believe in him or doesn't believe in any other prophet like prophets Moses & Jesus will be punished
Some of the teachings of the previous prophets were fabricated, we believe that prophet Jesus Pbuh didn't teach people the trinity and didn't teach people that he is God or the son of God or should be worshipped, but his teachings were fabricated later on
Regarding what you said that Zoroastrianism says that God didn't create Satan, some scholars believe that these were not the original teachings of Zoroastrianism but they were later
additions
Anyhow, I just said that Zoroaster may be one of the prophets that we were not informed about and maybe he isn't, so it doesn't matter if there are some teachings in Zoroastrianism that don't agree with Islam, maybe they are fabrications and later additins to the teachings of Zoroaster and maybe Zoroaster isn't a prophet
Yet, I am sure that Islam is the international version of Judaism, the samefaith in one God, our God is the same God of the jews, the God of prophets Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus, the God who saved the jews from the pharoah and who gave prophet Moses the Torah
But prophet Moses duty was to deliver the message of God to thepharoah and the jews while te duty of prophet Muhammad Pbuh was to deliver the messageof God to all mankind
Today there are only 12 million jews and 1.6 billion muslims from all nations in the world
So I don't understand actully what re you arguing about,Islam is the international version of Judaism, this is a fact that we don't need to argue about?
So simply if islam is false and judaism is true why did God make the jews very little in number compared to muslims?
This belief that you are describing which states that God and Jesus and the holy spirit are one n the same manner that a man has a body , a mind and a soul is the trinityÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
ÇáãÔÇÑßÉ ÇáÃÕáíÉ ßÊÈÊ ÈæÇÓØÉ MrsClaus92
This is the faith of the catholics, the orthodox and the protestant which are the main bulk of christians in the world
Jehova's witnesses who don't believe that the Christ is God are a minority among christians
ÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
There's actually a lot of evidence to support that belief- in Genesis 1, God is a spirit, hovering over the water (Gen 1:2), but the spirit of God can "wear" people, just like you can put on clothes… (Judges 6:34 for example) and God shows up in human form even in Genesis- Adam and Eve hear him WALKING in the garden- not hovering… Jacob is described wrestling with A MAN- that has thighs, head, body, feet, toes… yet he calls that place "The face of God" (Hebrew PneiEl) and explains: "for I have seen God face to face" and just think of it, God created man in his image… so what would God's image be??? Only Christians believe in 3 gods as in the sense of the holy trinity, and some Christians don't even believe Jesus is divine.
It's strange that you are trying to support christian faith from the old testament
Christians also believe that God abandoned the jews because they didn't blieve in prophet Jesus Pbuh, which is against your faith, and you are claiming that islam is false because God will nver abandon the jews, so you are just contradicting with yourself
Anyhow to quickly discuss the evidence you are using to prove the christian faith from the OT
:
-
Genesis 1:2 doesn't say that God is a spirit, it says according to some translations that God's spirit is hovering over water
:
2And the earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
However there are other translationsthat translate the passage as God's wind not God's sprit like the NRSV
:
In the beginning when God created[a] the heavens and the earth, 2 the earth was a formless void and darkness covered the face of the deep, while a wind from God[b] swept over the face of the
waters.
So it's just a possible translation and can't be solid evidence to prove christian faith
Moreover Jews understand the term (God's spirit) in a sense that is completely diffrent from that of christians
Jews understand that God's spirit means his spritual power while christians underatand that God's spirit is a person of 3 in Godhead, and although there are 3 persons in Godhead yet they are all one
I agree with you that according to jews God appeared as a man in certain situations but this has nothing to support christian faith
Anyhow, Islam is the only religion in which God never appeared as a man simply becausenothing can be similar to God, this is one of the things which make me sure that islam is the truth
I really don't understand how can you believe that Jacob Pbuh wresteled with God
?
Do you really believe in this
?
What's the difference between this and the grek tales about their gods
?
Moreover Jacob Pbuh was about to win his battle against God according to the Tanach
:
24 And Jacob was left alone, and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
25 And when the man saw that he prevailed not against him, he touched the hollow of his thigh; and the hollow of Jacob’s thigh was out of joint as he wrestled with him.
26 And the man said, “Let me go, for the day breaketh.” And he said, “I will not let thee go, unless thou bless me.”
27 And he said unto him, “What is thy name?” And he said, “Jacob.”
28 And he said, “Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel; for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.”
29 And Jacob asked him, and said, “Tell me, I pray thee, thy name.” And he said, “Why is it that thou dost ask after my name?” And he blessed him there.
30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel [that is, The face of God]: “For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved
.”
How on earth can ayone believe that God isasking Jacob to let him go after he was not able to prevail during wrestling
?
This story makes me 100% sure that the Tanach was to a certain extent fabricated
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So… Jehovah's witness believe and preach the faith in one God only, but Islam is not the international version of Jehovah's witness because Jehovah's witness say something that isn't in line with Islam- i.e. that Jesus is God's son. So how is Islam in line with Zoroastrianism or any other monotheistic religion if they say things that are not in line with Islam, for example, that Satan created the Genies, rather than that Allah created them from fire?
As I told you ,we believe that the messages of the previous prophets were to a certain extent fabricated
The Ebonites were early christians who believed that God is one and prophet Jesus Pbuh was a normal man, not God or the son of God, we believe that the Ebonites are the true fellowers of prophet Jesus Pbuh not the Catholics or the Orthodox or the Protestant or Jehova's witnesses, thy are all not following the true teachings of Jesus Pbuh
Read this
:
http://hardquestions.wordpress.com/tag/ebonites/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ebionites
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According to Quran, Abraham did not place Isaac on the alter but rather, it was Ishmael (since Isaac wasn't born yet)- it is not in line with Judaism, so how is it an international version of Judaism?
Yes we believe that the son who was about to be sacrificed was Ishmael pbuh not Isaac Pbuh and we believe that this is one of the fabrications in the tanach and it's so simple to prove
Let's read from Genesi 22
:
22:1 Some time after these things God tested1Abraham. He said to him, “Abraham!” “Here I am!” Abraham2replied. 22:2 God3said, “Take your son – your onlyson, whom you love, Isaac4– and go to the land of Moriah!5Offer him up there as a burnt offering6on one of the mountains which I will
indicate to7you.”
As clear, Isaac Pbuh was never the onl son of Abraham Pbuh becaue he was the younger child so this must be a fabrication
ÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
In Judaism, God promises to punish the wicked of his people, but never to utterly abandon them, never to stop being their God, even if they break their covenant with him- he will remember his everlasting covenant with them- how is that in line with Islam claiming God deserted the Jews for their iniquities???
Where in the Tanach did God promise never to abandon the jews
?
Why on earth couldn't God send a prophet except from among the Jews
?
If God hasn't abandoned the jews, why aren't there anymore prophets from among the jews for about 2500 years although there were a lot of prophets among the jews in the past
?
If God didn't abandon the Jews why did Prophet Jesus Pbuh tell the jews in the NT that God will abandon them
?
If God didn't abandon the jews why did a an come from among the arabs and say that he is the messenger of the same God of the same God of the jews but he was sent not only to the jews but to all mankind and now there are 1.6 bilio people who beieve in him as th messenger of God why there are only 12 million jews
?
Do you think that God is not kind enough to send prophets to people other than the jews
?
Do you think tha God will leave all nations without messengers apar from Jews
?
Do you think that God is a racist
?
Mrs Claus, I feel that you are just finding for yourself excuses in order not to believe in prohet Muhammad Pbuh
Mrs Claus, Would you please kindly wait till I finish my answer to all what you said before
?
The answer nto all hat you said needs a long time to write so wait till I finish and I'll give you the time that you need also
ÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
ÇáãÔÇÑßÉ ÇáÃÕáíÉ ßÊÈÊ ÈæÇÓØÉ MrsClaus92
ÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
ÇáãÔÇÑßÉ ÇáÃÕáíÉ ßÊÈÊ ÈæÇÓØÉ MrsClaus92
Ok, nice that you said this,so we as muslims stick to these 7 commandments, so even if your religion is true we are not in trouble at all
ÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
but if a Jew will convert to Islam and adhere to these commandments, he will not go to heaven but be punished… why? Because the Jews were commanded by many more commandments, such as observing Passover and the Day of Atonement, not lighting a fire on the Sabbath, teaching their sons about the Exodus, respecting their parents, not eating the fruits of a tree the first 7 years, not charging interest on loans etc… so a jew will be in a lot of trouble if he converts from Judaism J"
This is if we suppose that judaism is true
But it's very easy to prove that judaism is false
I can't believe that God had rest in the 7th day after creating the heavens and earth in 6 days
I can't believe that Jacob Pbuh had a fight with God and at some part of the fight he was dominant
God is greater and stronger than this, God is glorious, nothing is like him
There are many contradictions in the Tanach that makes it impossible for anyone to believe that the Tanach is God's word from A to Z
Just read this book which includes many contradictions in both the OT and the NT
:
http://answeringchristanity.wordpres...ontradictions/
Here are some well known examples
:
Years of famine
So God came to David, and told him, and said unto him, shall SEVEN YEARS OF FAMINE come unto thee in thy land? Or will thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue. thee? [II SAMUEL 24:13]
SO God came to David, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Choose thee. Either THREE YEARS OF FAMINE or three months to be destroyed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee; [I CHRONICLES 21:11, 12]
The number of beasts in the ark
Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. [GEN 7:2]
Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth. There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah. [GEN 7:8-9]
How many children did Michael, the daughter of Saul, have?
Therefore Michael the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death. [SA2 6:23]
But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michael the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite: [SA2 21:8]
How old was Jehoiachin when he began to reign
?
Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother’s name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem [KI2 24:8]
Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD. [CH2 36:9]
When did Baasha die
?
26th year of the reign of Asa I [Kings 16:6-8]
36th year of the reign of Asa I [2 Chron 16:1]
How old was Ahaziah when he began to reign
?
22 [2 Kings 8:26]
42[2 Chron 22:2]
Who was Josiah’s successor
?
Jehoahaz [2 Chron 36:1]
Shallum [Jeremiah 22:11]
So how can you be still in doubt whether the Tanach is from A to Z God's word or it contains many errors
?
How can you be sure that your religion is true
?
ÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
Anyway if according to your belief, people from other religions will go to heaven if they do these 7 commandments, so I as a muslim may go to heaven even if my religion is wrong and your religion is true
Meanwhile, according to my religion you will be in great trouble and you will never be to heaven if you don't believe in islam
This means that you have to be very careful when taking the decision of not believing in Islam, because if your decision is wrong you will be in great trouble"you said Islam is the international version of Judaism… kind of a "Judaism for the masses"… if a person is already a jew, already believes in one God and one God only, why- according to Islam- would he need to convert to Islam? Þõáú íóÇ Ãóåúáó ÇáúßöÊóÇÈö ÊóÚóÇáóæúÇ Åöáóìٰ ßóáöãóÉò ÓóæóÇÁò ÈóíúäóäóÇæóÈóíúäóßõãú ÃóáóøÇäóÚúÈõÏó ÅöáóøÇ Çááóøåó æóáóÇ äõÔúÑößó Èöåö ÔóíúÆðÇ
æóáóÇ íóÊóøÎöÐóÈóÚúÖõäóÇ ÈóÚúÖðÇ ÃóÑúÈóÇÈðÇ ãöøä Ïõæäö Çááóøåö ÝóÅöä ÊóæóáóøæúÇ ÝóÞõæáõæÇÇÔúåóÏõæÇ ÈöÃóäóøÇ ãõÓúáöãõæäó ﴿٦٤﴾Jews believe in god, they just don't accept Allah as his messenger. So if according to your belief, Jews will go to heaven if they believe in one God, so I as a jew may go to heaven even if my religion is wrong and your religion is true,
Unfortunately, your concept is completely wrong
If Islam is true, you are in great trouble and you will go to hell
May God not make hell the fate of any of us
Simply because you didn't believe in some of the prophets of God:Prophet Jesus Pbuh and Prophet Muhammad Pbuh
This is what the holy Quran says in surat Alnisa(Women
:
Åöäøó ÇáøóÐöíäó íóßúÝõÑõæäó ÈöÇááøåö æóÑõÓõáöåö æóíõÑöíÏõæäó Ãóä íõÝóÑøöÞõæÇú Èóíúäó Çááøåö æóÑõÓõáöåö æóíÞõæáõæäó äõÄúãöäõ ÈöÈóÚúÖò æóäóßúÝõÑõ ÈöÈóÚúÖò æóíõÑöíÏõæäó Ãóä íóÊøóÎöÐõæÇú Èóíúäó Ðóáößó ÓóÈöíáÇð ﴿150﴾ ÃõæúáóÆößó åõãõ ÇáúßóÇÝöÑõæäó ÍóÞøðÇ æóÃóÚúÊóÏúäóÇ áöáúßóÇÝöÑöíäó ÚóÐóÇÈðÇ ãøõåöíäðÇ ﴿151﴾ æóÇáøóÐöíäó ÂãóäõæÇú ÈöÇááøåö æóÑõÓõáöåö æóáóãú íõÝóÑøöÞõæÇú Èóíúäó ÃóÍóÏò ãøöäúåõãú ÃõæúáóÆößó ÓóæúÝó íõÄúÊöíåöãú ÃõÌõæÑóåõãú æóßóÇäó Çááøåõ ÛóÝõæÑðÇ ÑøóÍöíãðÇ ﴿152﴾
Here is the english translationThose who believe in some prophets and don't believe in others and those whom God promised a humiliating punishment according to the holy Quran are the jews, because you believe in the all the prophets other than prophet Jesus Pbuh and Prophet Muhammad Pbuh
Indeed, those who disbelieve in Allah and His messengers and wish to discriminate between Allah and His messengers and say, "We believe in some and disbelieve in others," and wish to adopt a way in between -
Those are the disbelievers, truly. And We have prepared for the disbelievers a humiliating punishment.
But they who believe in Allah and His messengers and do not discriminate between any of them - to those He is going to give their rewards. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful
4:150-152
Another Quranic verse is very clear and it states that whoever does not accept Islam as his religion will be a looser in the next life
:
æóãóä íóÈúÊóÛö ÛóíúÑó ÇáÅöÓúáÇóãö ÏöíäðÇ Ýóáóä íõÞúÈóáó ãöäúåõ æóåõæó Ýöí ÇáÂÎöÑóÉö ãöäó ÇáúÎóÇÓöÑöíäó 85 - (Çá ÚãÑÇä)
And whoever desires other than Islam as religion - never will it be accepted from him, and he, in the Hereafter, will be among the losers
3:85
The following Hadith states that jews and christians who don't believe in Prophet Muhammad Pbuh will go to hell
:
"By the One in Whose hand is the soul of Muhammad, there is no-one of this Ummah, Jew or Christian, who hears of me then dies without believing in that with which I have been sent, but he will be one of the people of Hell." (Sahih Muslim, 153).
Check this link, please
http://www.islamicweb.com/begin/conv...christians.htm
I proved to you that it's so easy to see that there was some corruption and fabrication in your religionÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
meanwhile, according to my religion I would be in great trouble and I will never be to heaven if I believe in Islam.This means that I have to be very careful when taking the decision of believing in Islam, because if my decision is wrong I will be in great trouble…
Moreover, according to your religion God will send a prophet like prophet Moses Pbuh from the brothers of the jews (Arabs are brothers of Jews because both are the children of Abraham Pbuh) and whoever does not follow this prophet will be punished
This is mentioned in Deutromony 18
:
15-16 God, your God, is going to raise up a prophet for you. God will raise him up from among your kinsmen, a prophet like me. Listen obediently to him. This is what you asked God, your God, for at Horeb on the day you were all gathered at the mountain and said, “We can’t hear any more from God, our God; we can’t stand seeing any more fire. We’ll die!”
17-19 And God said to me, “They’re right; they’ve spoken the truth. I’ll raise up for them a prophet like you from their kinsmen. I’ll tell him what to say and he will pass on to them everything I command him. And anyone who won’t listen to my words spoken by him, I will personally hold responsible.
(The Message)
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/...18&version=MSG
Actually I don't agree with what you saidÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
Christians and Muslims have been around for a very short time in comparison, the only other religion that exists since the days of the bible is Paganism in Eastern Asia. Christianity and Islam grew into a world embracing empires in the same way that Catholicism dominated the earth during the dark ages. Catholicism is now reduced to dominating the Vatican state- a state in the size of 500 square meters. Yes, meters, not even kilometers… other great empires have risen and fallen too. Where is the Greek empire and its Helenism? Where is the Roman empire today? The Ottoman empire? Alexander the great? What happened to the huge MedoPersian empire? What happened to Napoleon? The Holy Roman Empire of Charles V that dominated nearly the entire world? they were all like flames that grew high and fast then burned out and disappeared, it is therefore reasonable to deduct that the Christian denominations and Islam will die out just as Jesus and Muhammad died. Judaism, however, neither grew nor shrunk, it remains constant throughout time, Judaism lives on as long as God is alive because it does not lean on the credibility of a person- Jesus, Muhammad, Joseph Smith etc, but on the mere existence of a deity. Any prophet can be voted a liar and Judaism will remain standing still because it bares no effect on the question of whether God exists or not.
You are just trying to convince yourself that christianity and Islam lean on the credibility of a person while judaism doesn't
What if we suppose that Prophet Moses was a liar and that he was not a true prophet
?
Judaism leans on
:
-
The presence and the oneness of God
-
The credibility of all prophets mentioned in the old testament
-
The credibility of the books of the old testament
And we have proved before that there are many errors and contradictions in these books
Also I see that you are trying to convince yourself that your religion is the truth by considering that the presence of jews for a long time is an amazing miracle
!!!!
I just don't even understand your point
!!!
Though Jews have existed for about 3500 years yet they are 12 million till now, but muslims have existed only for less than 1500 years yet there are 1.6 billion muslims world wide
I don't understand what are you arguing about
!!!
Simply if Judaism is the true religion and Islam is a false religion why did God allow this false religion to become a worldwide religion while the true religion is only followed by a minority
?
Well Mrs Claus what's clear from the Bible is that the jews were ordered to battle other nations and sometimes even kill their women, their young children and even there cattle. In Islam , killing the women and children is forbiddenÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
ÇáãÔÇÑßÉ ÇáÃÕáíÉ ßÊÈÊ ÈæÇÓØÉ MrsClaus92
The problem is that you are trying to find yourself some excuses to accept the battles of the jews in the Bible and in the same time to prove to yourself that muslims were terrorists
If the battles of the jews were to conquer lands which were not theirs, the islamic battles were not just to conquer lands but were in order to make muslims in a dominant position so that they can let the people know the teachings of Islam and whoever wants to join Islam can join it without being afraid of oppression
The early christians for about 3 centuries were oppressed by the romans, they were even sometimes left to lions to kill them, this is because the early christians were not strong
Similarly , the early muslims in Mecca were oppressed
If muslims tried to spread Islam outside Arabia among the Romans and the Persians without being strong and without armies, what has been done to the early christians for 3 centuries would have been done to them also
Anyone who would have joined Islam among the Romans or the Persians may have been left to lions also
Yet Muslims in their battles, began by asking the enemies to join Islam , if not pay the Jizzya(tax),if not the last option is battle and in case of battle killing women , children and priests is completely forbidden not like the battles in the Bible
And if Muslims win a battle and conquer a land, they never forced people to leave their religion and convert to Islam, if you are a non-muslim you can live safely in the Islamic country if you pay the tax (Jizya) and have your full rights
First of all, I want to draw your attention that we as muslims do not like people to mention our beloved prophet Pbuh just by name by saying MuhammadÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
ÇáãÔÇÑßÉ ÇáÃÕáíÉ ßÊÈÊ ÈæÇÓØÉ MrsClaus92
Would you kindly say (Your prophet) or (The prophet of Islam) instead of just saying Muhammad
?
We usually do not mention the names of prophets just by name and whenever we mention any prophet by name we follow it by Pbuh which stands for peace be upon him
Regarding your question, if prophet Muhammad Pbuh was a true prophet, why didn't the jews follow him, I'll answer this question after you answer the following question
If there is solid evidence that the golden Calf is not a true god why did the jews worship him
?
Simply the jews didn't believe in prophet Muhammad Pbuh because they couldn't accept a prophet who is not from the jews , who tells them you have fabricated the scriptures, and who orders them to leave their scriptues and follow the holy Quran
Anyhow, some of the jews believed in prophet Muhammad Pbuh after testing him and some of them admitted that he was mentioned in their books and some of them ordered their dying children to beleve in him before their death
For example
:
Abdullah Ibn Salam was a jewish rabbi who converted to islam and became a companion of prophet Muhammad Pbuh
Read the story of his conversion to Islam
:
http://www.islamreligion.com/articles/1692/
Another well known example is a jewish man ordering his dying son to believe in prophet Muhammad Pbuh
:
It was narrated that Anas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “There was a Jewish boy who used to serve the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), and he fell sick. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came to visit him; he sat by his head and said, ‘Become Muslim.’ The boy looked at his father, who was present, and he (the father) said: ‘Obey Abu’l-Qaasim (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).’ So he became Muslim, and the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) left, saying, ‘Praise be to Allaah Who has saved him from the Fire.’”
Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1290
Even a jewish scholar admitted that prophet Muhammad Pbuh was a true prophet but to the arabs and that the jews do not have to follow him
Read this from the wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism...ws_on_Muhammad
Natan'el al-Fayyumi
Nethanel ibn al-Fayyumi, a prominent 12th-century Yemenite rabbi and theologian, and the founder of so-called Jewish Ismailism, wrote in his philosophical treatise Bustan al-Uqul ("Garden of Wisdom") that God sends prophets to establish religions for other nations, which do not have to conform to the precepts of the Jewish Torah. Nethanel explicitly considered Muhammad a true prophet, who was sent from Heaven with a particular message that applies to the Arabs, but not to the Jews.[3][4] However, Al-Fayymi's explicit acceptance of Muhammad's prophecy may be unique and was virtually unknown until recent times beyond his native Yemen.[5]
Simply the story of the satanic verses is not considered a true story by muslim scholarsÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
"But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or which he speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die." (Deuteronomy 18:20)
Here you have 2 ways to spot a false prophet: a person who either delivers a message that does not come from God or speaks in the names of false gods must be a false prophet. But this means that Muhammad was a false prophet, since he did both when he delivered the "Satanic Verses."… on at least this one occasion, Muhammad preached the word of Satan, which was in line with his own desires, at the same time claiming it was the word of God- though God never commanded him to speak it…
"I have fabricated things against God and have imputed to Him words which He has not spoken."
~MUHAMMAD (Al-Tabari 6:111)
[LEFT]Do you expect God's people to please Him by believing in a false prophet, or do you believe that genuine prophets can indeed deliver false revelations and speak in the names of false gods (in this case- Satan)
Why didn't the Muslims accept Sabbatai Zevi? What's good for the Muslims is not good for the jews?
Read this article
:
http://www.islamic-awareness.org/Polemics/sverses.html
Later on I'll provide you insha Allah (if God wills ) with sure evidence that prophet Muhammad Pbuh is a true prophetÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
[if there were solid reasons to conclude that Muhammad was a reliable messenger of God, the Jews would have probably suppose that Islam is true. However, if there are strong reasons to question Muhammad’s trustworthiness, would you then reject his teachings?
Surely it's not a logic that a man who has been a very strong leader and who has been able to change the religion of a whole nation within 23 years suffered a mental illnessÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
[What if I told you there is a good reason to suspect that
Muhammad suffered from either mental disease or demonic ]
The previous paragraph is a collection of the false ideas that those who attack Islam are trying to convince people withÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
ÇáãÔÇÑßÉ ÇáÃÕáíÉ ßÊÈÊ ÈæÇÓØÉ MrsClaus92
When was Prophet Muhammad Pbuh violent with those who insulted him
?
Maybe when he conquered Mecca and he said to the people of his tribe Quraysh: Go you are free, although they oppressed the early muslims and although he himself Pbuh and his fellowers had to leave Mecca because the people of Quraysh were violent with them
If in certain situations you see that our beloved Prophet Pbuh seems to be violent be sure that either these stories are false stories or there is some explanation that you don't know
Yes there were some revelations that made the Prophet Pbuh transgress other revelations but this is a sort of graduation from God in teaching us his religion
A famous example is wine
The early muslims used to drink wine
The Quran first stated that a muslim should not pray while he is drunk then wine was completely forbidden whether a muslim is praying or not
Who said that Prophet Muhammad Pbuh was contempt to women
?
Maybe because he taught us that the best of us is the best to his wife
Read
http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/w_islam/intro.htm
and
http://www.answering-christianity.com/woman.htm
Regarding the marriage of Prophet Muhammad Pbuh to our mother Aisha when she was 9 years old
Read this
:
http://www.answering-christianity.com/aisha.htm
Prophet Muhammad Pbuh allowed telling lies when you are making peace between people
For example if you have a quarrel with one of your friends and then you tell me that you think your friend was silly and stupid
If I want to put an end to your quarrel with your friend and go and tell her Mrs Claus told me that you are a very kind person and she is really sad that she quarreled with you
This doesn't mean that I'm a liar and this doesn't mean also that Prophet Muhammad has been lying while preaching his message as you claim
ÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
ÇáãÔÇÑßÉ ÇáÃÕáíÉ ßÊÈÊ ÈæÇÓØÉ MrsClaus92
After reading all what you wrote below I find that you just find evidence that Prophet Muhammad Pbuh may have been mentally or spiritually unstable because you want to see such evidence but in fact there is no evidence at all
Actually how could you claim that a man who has been able to change the religion of a whole nation within 23 years and change them from pagans to people who worship only one God, how could you claim that such a man was mentally unstable
?
If an intelligent man is told that some person managed to convince many people, numbering in the billions, of a specific idea, and that they followed him in that, or that a man on his own was able to succeed in the elections – for example – or to convince the people to vote for him, this intelligent man would attest that this person was brilliant and intelligent and wise. So how about out Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) – may my father and mother be sacrificed for him – whom the Arabs and non-Arabs followed, whose message of Islam spread everywhere and whose message with which God sent him has remained strong until our own times, facts which are attested by everyone?
This story is considered by muslims as one of the miracles of our beloved prophet PbuhÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
evidence that Muhammad was imbalanced goes all the way back to his childhood. His parents died when he was young, so he was brought up by his grandfather and his uncle. Muhammad had a nurse who took care of him prior to his mother’s death. This nurse told about this strange event that occurred during Muhammad’s childhood:Some months after our return [Muhammad] and his brother were with our lambs behind the tents when his brother came running and said to us, "Two men clothed in white have seized that Qurayshi brother of mine and thrown him down and opened up his belly, and are stirring it up." We ran towards him and found him standing up with a livid face. We took hold of him and asked him what was the matter. He said, "Two men in white raiment came and threw me down and opened up my belly and searched therein for I know not what." So we took him back to our tent.His father said to me, "I am afraid that this child has had a stroke, so take him back to his family before the result appears." So we picked him up and took him to his mother who asked why we had brought him when I had been anxious for his welfare and desirous of keeping him with me. I said to her, "God has let my son live so far and I have done my duty. I am afraid that ill will befall him, so I have brought him back to you as you wished." She asked me what happened and gave me no peace until I told her. When she asked if I feared a demon possessed him, I replied that I did." (Ibn Ishaq, Sirat Rasul Allah (The Life of Muhammad), A. Guillaume, tr. (New York: Oxford University Press, 1980), p. 71-72)
According to islamic belief, these 2 men were angels and opening the chest of the Prophet and taking something from it has a spiritual meaning as the thing taken is understood as a symbol of
the evil part of the human personality
Many muslims believe that this was a sort of devine preparation of
Prophet Muhammad for his mission as God's messenger
As a non-muslim , I understand that you won't believe this but surely it's not logic to ignore the whole life of Prophet Muhammad Pbuh and his influence on whole mankind and consider this story as evidence of him being mentally unstable
Moreover this story is considered dobtful by some muslim scholars
Again you are just trying to find any evidence to prove that Prophet Muhammad was mentally unstableÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
Muhammad’s nurse wasn’t the only one to fear demonic possession on the part of Muhammad; the Prophet himself came to the exact same conclusion when he began receiving revelations from Gabriel. A full account of Muhammad’s first encounter with Gabriel is given in the Sirat Rasul Allah:When it was the night on which God honored him with his mission and showed mercy on His servants thereby, Gabriel brought him the command of God. "He came to me," said the apostle of God, "while I was asleep, with a coverlet of brocade whereon was some writing, and said, ‘Read!’ I said, ‘What shall I read?’ He pressed me with it so tightly that I thought it was death; then he let me go and said, ‘Read!’ I said, ‘What shall I read?’ He pressed me with it again so that I thought it was death; then he let me go and said ‘Read!’ I said, ‘What shall I read?’ He pressed me with it the third time so that I thought it was death and said ‘Read!’ I said, ‘What then shall I read?’—and this I said only to deliver myself from him, lest he should do the same to me again. He said:‘Read in the name of thy Lord who created,
Who created man of blood coagulated.
Read! Thy Lord is the most beneficent,
Who taught by the pen,
Taught that which they knew not unto men.’So I read it, and he departed from me. And I awoke from my sleep, and it was as though these words were written on my heart."So far so good, except for the violent manner in which Gabriel brought the message to Muhammad. But Muhammad’s interpretation of the event is quite revealing. His first impression of his encounter was that he had been possessed; as a result, Muhammad quickly became suicidal:Now none of God’s creatures was more hateful to me than an (ecstatic) poet or a man possessed: I could not even look at them. I thought, Woe is me poet or possessed—Never shall Quraysh say this of me! I will go to the top of the mountain and throw myself down that I may kill myself and gain rest.Muhammad tried to throw himself off a cliff, but he was stopped by Gabriel. He later became suicidal again when no additional revelations came.Now tell me that this is not the behavior of a mad man, belonging in a nut house: "he was sitting on a chair in between the sky and the earth. I was so frightened by him that I fell on the ground and came to my family and said (to them), Cover me! (with a blanket), cover me!" (Sahih Al-Bukhari , Number 3238.).
Regarding the first story of Gabriel coming for the first time to the Prophet and telling him (Read
I don't know exactly how did you understand that Prophet Muhammad Pbuh thought he was possessed by demons
?
Yes, the Prophet felt afraid but this
is normal
Imagine someone sitting in a cave on top of a mountain alone and then he suddenly finds a man telling him : Read and hugging him
firmly
and doing the samething for 3 times
What do you think a normal response will be
?
Regarding the story of Prophet Muhammad Pbuh trying to commit a suicide, it's not a true story because it's from the (Maraseel) of a muslim scholar known as Alzohary
Maraseel is a name given to the narrations in which a narrator narrates a certain event without witnessing it and without mentioning who informed him about it
Muslim scholars consider that Alzohary's maraseel are extremely doubtful so the story of the Prophet Pbuh trying to commit a suicide is extremely doubtful
Let's read the whole story from Sahih Albukhari
:
Saheeh Bukhari
Volumn 009, Book 087, Hadith Number 111.
-----------------------------------------
Narated By 'Aisha : The commencement of the Divine Inspiration to Allah's Apostle was in the form of good righteous (true) dreams in his sleep. He never had a dream but that it came true like bright day light. He used to go in seclusion (the cave of) Hira where he used to worship(Allah Alone) continuously for many (days) nights. He used to take with him the journey food for that (stay) and then come back to (his wife) Khadija to take his food like-wise again for another period to stay, till suddenly the Truth descended upon him while he was in the cave of Hira. The angel came to him in it and asked him to read. The Prophet replied, "I do not know how to read." (The Prophet added), "The angel caught me (forcefully) and pressed me so hard that I could not bear it anymore. He then released me and again asked me to read, and I replied, "I do not know how to read," whereupon he caught me again and pressed me a second time till I could not bear it anymore. He then released me and asked me again to read, but again I replied, "I do not know how to read (or, what shall I read?)." Thereupon he caught me for the third time and pressed me and then released me and said, "Read: In the Name of your Lord, Who has created (all that exists). Has created man from a clot. Read and Your Lord is Most Generous... up to... that which he knew not." (96.15)
Then Allah's Apostle returned with the Inspiration, his neck muscles twitching with terror till he entered upon Khadija and said, "Cover me! Cover me!" They covered him till his fear was over and then he said, "O Khadija, what is wrong with me?" Then he told her everything that had happened and said, 'I fear that something may happen to me." Khadija said, 'Never! But have the glad tidings, for by Allah, Allah will never disgrace you as you keep good reactions with your Kith and kin, speak the truth, help the poor and the destitute, serve your guest generously and assist the deserving, calamity-afflicted ones." Khadija then accompanied him to (her cousin) Waraqa bin Naufal bin Asad bin 'Abdul 'Uzza bin Qusai. Waraqa was the son of her paternal uncle, i.e., her father's brother, who during the Pre-Islamic Period became a Christian and used to write the Arabic writing and used to write of the Gospels in Arabic as much as Allah wished him to write. He was an old man and had lost his eyesight. Khadija said to him, "O my cousin! Listen to the story of your nephew." Waraqa asked, "O my nephew! What have you seen?" The Prophet described whatever he had seen.
Waraqa said, "This is the same Namus (i.e., Gabriel, the Angel who keeps the secrets) whom Allah had sent to Moses. I wish I were young and could live up to the time when your people would turn you out." Allah's Apostle asked, "Will they turn me out?" Waraqa replied in the affirmative and said: "Never did a man come with something similar to what you have brought but was treated with hostility. If I should remain alive till the day when you will be turned out then I would support you strongly." But after a few days Waraqa died and the Divine Inspiration was also paused for a while and the Prophet became so sad as we have heard that he intended several times to throw himself from the tops of high mountains and every time he went up the top of a mountain in order to throw himself down, Gabriel would appear before him and say, "O Muhammad! You are indeed Allah's Apostle in truth" whereupon his heart would become quiet and he would calm down and would return home. And whenever the period of the coming of the inspiration used to become long, he would do as before, but when he used to reach the top of a mountain, Gabriel would appear before him and say to him what he had said before. (Ibn 'Abbas said regarding the meaning of: 'He it is that Cleaves the daybreak (from the darkness)' (6.96) that Al-Asbah. means the light of the sun during the day and the light of the moon at night).
As you see Alzohary said as we have heard without mentioning who he heard from exactly
This is why although the whole Hadith is considered Sahih or true , this part of the Prophet trying to commit a suicide is considered extremely doubtful
Moreover you are just picking from the hadith what you want to find, what about Waraqa Ibn Nawfal who was a christian and considered prophet Muhammad to be a true prophet from the first day exactly as prophet Moses
?
If Waraqa who saw Prophet Muhammad Pbuh felt that he was mentally unstable why did he consider him a true prophet
?
Again if Prophet Muhammad was a mad man as you are trying to claim, how was he able to work hard for 23 years to change the religion of a whole nation
?
How has he been able to be the ruler of the muslims in Almadinah for 11 years
?
How was he able to lead the islamic army while he was mad as you claim
?
Why did all his wives , daughters , grandsons and friends believe that he was a true prophet and didn't notice that he was mad
?
No it's not for sure epilepsy because epilepsy is recurrentÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
And what is this? Epilepsy? "When the Ka’ba was rebuilt, the Prophet (The blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) and Abbas went to carry stones. Abbas said to the Prophet (The blessing and peace of Allah be upon him): "(Take off and) put your waist sheet over your neck so that the stones may not hurt you." (But as soon as he took off his waist sheet) he fell unconscious on the ground with both his eyes towards the sky. When he came to his senses, he said: "My waist sheet! My waist sheet!" Then he tied his waist sheet (round his waist) (Sahih Al-Bukhari , Number 3829.)
And for sure it was never reported that Prophet Muhammad Pbuh convulsed
As a physician, I bet it was just a vasovagal syncope
which occurs to normal people
ÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
Cold sweat??? "Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) sweated in cold weather when revelation descended upon him" (Sahih Muslim, Abdul Hamid Siddiqi, tr., Number 5763.)
High fever??? A’isha reported: When revelation descended upon Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) even during the cold days, his forehead perspired.[8]Breath Holding Spells will cause your face to turn blue… it's another sign of Epilepsy: Ubada bin Samit reported that when wahi (inspiration) descended upon Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him), he felt a burden on that account and the color of his face underwent a change. (Ibid., Number 5766.)
These changes which used to occur to the Prophet Pbuh while he was receiving the revelation prove that the Prophet Pbuh was not a liar
It shows that there was really something strange happening to the Prophet when he said that he was receiving the revelation
Sometimes the people around the Prophet heard a sound like that of bees around the head of the Prophet Pbuh while he was receiving revelation
Is this also epilepsy
?
Anyhow, the main symptom of epilepsy is convulsions, have you ever heard that Prophet Muhammad Pbuh convulsed
?
Have you heard of an epilepsy patient , reading verses after his epileptic fits and saying that these are verses inspired to him from God
?
ÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
The satanic versus show:
ÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
Muhammad’s reception of revelations was influenced by his personal desires;
He received a revelation from Satan;
He proclaimed the revelation as a message from Allah;
He and his followers bowed down in honor of receiving the revelation; and
God’s response was, in effect, "Don’t worry about it Muhammad. All prophets proclaim Satanic messages from time to time."
God’s response to Muhammad was incorporated into the Qur’an:"And We did not send before you any apostle or prophet but when he desired, the Shaitan made a suggestion respecting his desire; but Allah annuls that which the Shaitan casts, then does Allah establish His communications, and Allah is Knowing, Wise."Hence, Satan was capable of influencing both Muhammad and, allegedly, all the prophets before him.
I told you before that the whole story of satanic verses is considered as a fake by muslim scholars so we don't have to repeat what we have said before again
ÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
But Satan wasn’t the only influence on Muhammad. A Jewish magician named Labid was also able to exercise control over the "Seal of the Prophets."
ÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) narrated: "Once the Prophet (the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) was bewitched so that he began to imagine that he had done a thing which in fact, he had not done."Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) narrated: Magic was worked on Allah’s Apostle (may the blessing and peace of Allah be upon him) so that he used to think that he had had sexual relations with his wives while he actually had not. Then one day he said, "O Aisha, do you know that Allah has instructed me concerning the matter I asked Him about? Two men came to me and one of them sat near my head and the other sat near my feet. The one near my head asked the other: ‘What is wrong with this man?’ The latter replied, ‘He is under the effect of magic.’ The first one asked, ‘Who has worked magic on him?’ The other replied, ‘Labid bin Al-Asam, a man from Bani Zuraiq who was an ally of the Jews and was a hypocrite.’ The first one asked, ‘What material did he use?’ The other replied, ‘A comb and the hair stuck to it.’"Ibn Ishaq also reports that "Labid bin A’sam . . . bewitched the apostle of God so that he could not come at his wives." Guillaume adds a note saying that, according to tradition, "the spell lasted for a year."
Again I don't know what's the problem that you find when we say that a jewish magician was able to affect Prophet Muhammad Pbuh
?
If this proves anything, it proves that prophet Muhammad Pbuh was a normal man, he was not divine , he was not God or the son of God
Prophet Muhammad Pbuh was just a normal man who could be affected by a magician but the difference between him and us is that God selected him to be his messenger
Surely I don't know what tradition said that this spell lasted for a year and surely Guillaume is not a reliable source for us
And here is the whole story
:
[[From Muslim]] @Book 26, Number 5428: A'isha reported that a Jew from among the Jews of Banu Zuraiq who was called Labid b. al-A'sam cast spell upon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) with the result that he (under the influence of the spell) felt that he had been doing something whereas in fact he had not been doing that. (This state of affairs lasted) until one day or during one night Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) made supplication (to dispel its effects). He again made a supplication and he again did this and said to 'A'isha: Do you know that Allah has told me what I had asked Him? There came to me two men and one amongst them sat near my head and the other one near my feet and he who sat near my head said to one who sat near my feet or one who sat near my feet said to one who sat near my head: What is the trouble with the man? He said: The spell has affected him. He said: Who has cast that? He (the other one) said: It was Labid b. A'sam (who has done it). He said: What is the thing by which he transmitted its effect? He said: By the comb and by the hair stuck to the comb and the spathe of the date- palm. He said: Where is tbap He replied: In the well of Dhi Arwan. She said: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) sent some of the persons from among his Companions there and then said: 'A'isha. by Allah, its water was yellow like henna and its trees were like heads of the devils. She said that she asked Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as to why he did not burn that. He said: No, Allah has cured me and I do not like that I should induce people to commit any high- handedness in regard (to one another), but I only commanded that it should be buried.
As you see the story shows that the Prophet Muhammad is a true prophet
God listened to his prayers and cured him from the affect of this magic
Also the Prophet Pbuh was able to know after his prayers the site
of the magic and sent his companions there to remove it
But as usual you are just picking what you want and ignoring what you don't want from the same story
ÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
According to the earliest and most reliable Muslim writings and traditions, Muhammad’s first impression of his divine encounter was that he had been possessed by demons. This encounter disturbed Muhammad so much that he became suicidal. Further, we have a story in Ibn Ishaq, the earliest biography of Muhammad, maintaining that the childhood nurse of the Prophet also thought that he might be demon-possessed. Some of the details of Muhammad’s encounter seem to support this conclusion. He was sometimes terrified of his revelations, screaming for someone to cover him. He would sweat profusely even in the cold, and his face would change color. Additionally, Muhammad could not distinguish genuine revelations from Satanic revelations, and he was the victim of a debilitating magic spell that probably lasted a year.
All what you said in the previous paragraph was answered beforeÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
[LEFT][FONT="]this evidence is entirely sufficient for a rational person to seriously doubt Muhammad’s reliability as a prophet. A man who (admittedly) proclaimed verses from Satan and fell victim to sorcery while declaring himself to be God’s greatest messenger should not be trusted without exceptionally good evidence to support his claim. Since no such evidence for Islam exists, it is justified to question his role as God’s messenger
Yet, of course you have the right not to believe in Prophet Muhammad Pbuh unless there is strong evidence to support that
he was a true prophet
and this is what I'll start doing soon insha Allah
(If God wills)
ÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
ÇáãÔÇÑßÉ ÇáÃÕáíÉ ßÊÈÊ ÈæÇÓØÉ MrsClaus92
Again you are speaking as if you are a christian and it seems that you believe in both judaism and christianity but it's only Islam that you don't believe in
I think after I have proved to you that the story of satanic verses is not a true story, your whole argument comes to an end
Moreover , I want to be sure that you understand that we don't believe in the new testament , we believe in the true Injeel which was given by God to prophet Jesus Pbuh but our faith in the new testament is the same as our faith in the old testament, some parts of both of them are true but others are false
Moreover, you must also know that the holy Quran with its scientific, historical and numerical miracles and its prophecies which turned out to be true is the only evidence e new testament
that Jesus Pbuh is a true prophet
But if we were to know prophet Jesus only from the new testament , we would have reached the conclusion that he is not a true prophet simply because the writers of the new testament have put in the mouth of Jesus Pbuh false prophecies
According to the gospels Jesus Pbuh prophecized that he will
return again before the death of some of those who saw him and it's now more than 2000 years later and all those who saw Jesus Pbuh died and he didn't return again yet
Read this false prophecy in Matthew's gospel chapter 9
:
27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then shall he render unto every man according to his deeds.
28 Verily I say unto you, there are some of them that stand here, who shall in no wise taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.
And we also find prophecies that Jesus Pbuh would return before the end of his generation
From Mark 13
:
And as he went forth out of the temple, one of his disciples saith unto him, Teacher, behold, what manner of stones and what manner of buildings!
2 And Jesus said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left here one stone upon another, which shall not be thrown down.
3 And as he sat on the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,
4 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when these things are all about to be accomplished?
5 And Jesus began to say unto them, Take heed that no man lead you astray.
6 Many shall come in my name, saying, I am he; and shall lead many astray.
7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars, be not troubled: these things must needs come to pass; but the end is not yet.
8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; there shall be earthquakes in divers places; there shall be famines: these things are the beginning of travail.
9 But take ye heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in synagogues shall ye be beaten; and before governors and kings shall ye stand for my sake, for a testimony unto them.
10 And the gospel must first be preached unto all the nations.
11 And when they lead you to judgment, and deliver you up, be not anxious beforehand what ye shall speak: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye; for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Spirit.
12 And brother shall deliver up brother to death, and the father his child; and children shall rise up against parents, and cause them to be put to death.
13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.
14 But when ye see the abomination of desolation standing where he ought not (let him that readeth understand), then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains:
15 and let him that is on the housetop not go down, nor enter in, to take anything out his house:
16 and let him that is in the field not return back to take his cloak.
17 But woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days!
18 And pray ye that it be not in the winter.
19 For those days shall be tribulation, such as there hath not been the like from the beginning of the creation which God created until now, and never shall be.
20 And except the Lord had shortened the days, no flesh would have been saved; but for the elect's sake, whom he chose, he shortened the days.
21 And then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is the Christ; or, Lo, there; believe it not:
22 for there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show signs and wonders, that they may lead astray, if possible, the elect.
23 But take ye heed: behold, I have told you all things beforehand.
24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25 and the stars shall be falling from heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens shall be shaken.
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in clouds with great power and glory.
27 And then shall he send forth the angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
28 Now from the fig tree learn her parable: when her branch is now become tender, and putteth forth its leaves, ye know that the summer is nigh;
29 even so ye also, when ye see these things coming to pass, know ye that he is nigh, even at the doors.
30 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, until all these things be accomplished.
Another serious false prophecy is the prophecy of the 3 days and 3 nights
According to the gospels, Jesus Pbuh prophecized that he will spend 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb but he actually spent according to the gospels also 1 day and 2 nights or maximally 3 days and 2 nights if we consider a part of a day as a whole day but never 3 days and 3 nights
Matt 12:40; For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Mark 14:42-43;And now when the even was come, because it was the preparation, that is, the day before the sabbath, Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus.
Matt 28:1; In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
These 3 scriptures prove three things;
1. That Jesus would spend 3 days and three nights in the tomb.
2. That the day he died was the 'preparation' day, the day before the sabbath which is the 14th day of the month of Nisan, the day of passover.
3. That HE rose again on the morning of the 1st day of the week, which today is sunday, according to Matt 28:1.
ÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
Furthermore, Jesus warned his followers that "many false prophets will appear and deceive many people."
ÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
Not all false prophets deliberately deceived their disciples, however. Some were led by Satan to do so, and the evidence strongly suggests that Muhammad falls into this category. Even his own followers said that he was bewitched.
Yes , Jesus Pbuh warned from false prophets and there were really many false prophets after him and also after prophet Muhammad PbuhÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
There were a lot of people who claimed that they are the jewish Messiah and they were many people who claimed that they are messengers from God like Musaylimah Alkaddab , BahauAllah and Gholam Ahmad
But this doesn't mean at all that prophet Muhammad Pbuh was a false prophet
Jesus Pbuh said that God will send the Parakletos who will teach the people everything and who will say the truth because he doesn't speak from his own but he says what he hears
We are sure that the Parakletos is Prophet Muhammad Pbuh
Even in the gospel of the Nizareth which was considered to be true by some early christians but not considered to be true by the church now, Jesus Pbuh said clearly that God will send his messenger
This is the link to the Gospel
:
http://messianic.nazirene.org/gospel_index.htm
The prophecy is in chapter 61
:
http://messianic.nazirene.org/gospel....htm#chapter61
1.And as Yeshua sat upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" And Yeshua answered and said to them, "Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, 'I am Messiah; and shall deceive many.'"
2."And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that you not be troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there will be famines, and pestilences, and earthquake, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows."
3.And in those days those that have power will gather to themselves the lands and riches of the earth for their own lusts, and will oppress the many who lack and hold them in bondage, and use them to increase their riches, and they will oppress even the beasts of the field, setting up the abominable thing. But God will send them his messenger and they will proclaim his laws, which men have hidden by their traditions, and those that transgress shall die."
It's clear that the only man whom about one quarter of the world population believe that he is the messenger of God who Prophet Jesus Pbuh prophecized his coming is Prophet Muhammad Pbuh
ÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
"Or probably God can never send prophets except to the Jews?"God can send prophets to other nations and he has done so- Abimelech king of Grar for example, and Balaam Be Beor for another. God also has a promised land saved for other nations but the Jews as stated earlier… God created all humanity and loves them all. He may have separate covenants with others and send them prophets etc. that doesn't mean that he did not single out the Jews to prove his existence through them, and use them as a light to the nations so that eventually the whole world will believe in him (not that the whole world will become Jews… that is simply un necessary)
How did the whole world know about God and abandon worshipping statues
?
Is it through the jews
?
Or is it through Prophet Jesus and Prophet Muhammad Pbuh
?
Again where did God promise an eternal convenant to the jewsÇÞÊÈÇÓ:
"Anyway according to islam, the jews were one day the peopple of God, but they disobeyed him , they worshipped other Gods, they did many mistakes, they even killed or tried to kill some of God's prophets like prophet Jesus Pbuh, so God punished them by not considering them his people anymore and by sending prophet Muhamed, the final prophet sent to whole mankind, from the arabs not the jews and now the jews are no more the people of God, they were replaced by muslims"God can see into the future and he did. He foresaw that the Jews will disobey him and announced what will happen to them- they will be punished. Terribly. But then they will be forgiven and restored. They will never be replaced. Do you suppose God to be a liar promising an eternal covenant to the Jews? Or is he not all knowing and didn't know what will happen in the future to change his mind?
?
Even in the new testament Jesus Pbuh said clearly that God will
abandon the jews
and the jews understood clearly what he meant according to Mark's gospel
This is stated clearly in Mark 12
:
And he began to speak unto them in parables. A man planted a vineyard, and set a hedge about it, and digged a pit for the winepress, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into another country.
2 And at the season he sent to the husbandmen a servant, that he might receive from the husbandmen of the fruits of the vineyard.
3 And they took him, and beat him, and sent him away empty.
4 And again he sent unto them another servant; and him they wounded in the head, and handled shamefully.
5 And he sent another; and him they killed: and many others; beating some, and killing some.
6 He had yet one, a beloved son: he sent him last unto them, saying, They will reverence my son.
7 But those husbandmen said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance shall be ours.
8 And they took him, and killed him, and cast him forth out of the vineyard.
9 What therefore will the lord of the vineyard do? he will come and destroy the husbandmen, and will give the vineyard unto others.
10 Have ye not read even this scripture: The stone which the builders rejected, The same was made the head of the corner;
11 This was from the Lord, And it is marvellous in our eyes?
12 And they sought to lay hold on him; and they feared the multitude; for they perceived that he spake the parable against them: and they left him, and went away
Now we have to organise the discussion so that we discuss only one point at a time
I can't continue the discussion discussing 100 points at a time
The first point that I would like to discuss is where did God make an everlasting promise to the jews that he will never abandon them so that you can't believe that the muslims now have replaced the jews
?
Then I'll show you that prophet Muhammad Pbuh has been clearly mentioned in
:
The old testament
The jewish apocrypha
The new testament
New Testament Apocrypha
Also since according to Deutromony 18
we can know whether a prophet is a true prophet or a liar from his prophecies, we can also have a look at the prophecies of the holy Quran and Prophet Muhammad Pbuh to see whether they turned out to be true or not
Now please answer this question and kindly don't discuss any other issues
:
Where did God promise the jews he will never abandon them
?
Mrs Claus , I hope you may receive this by e-mail and return again to continue our dialogue