The piercing star

http://www.kalemasawaa.com/vb/images/smilies/26.gif



in the name of Allah


Allah says :

( By the heaven and the Tarik (The Knocker) Ah, what will tell thee what the Tarik (The knocker) is! The piercing Star )

the holy Qura'n 86:1-3


1- The Knocker 's sound :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb0P6x_xDEU


The piercing Star:


http://www.kalemasawaa.com/vb/upload..._p%20.star.png



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAS1t2v51xw


now the question is :

who tell the prophet Muhammad PUH about these scientific facts 1400 years ago ?????



http://www.kalemasawaa.com/vb/images/smilies/p016.gifhttp://www.kalemasawaa.com/vb/images/smilies/p016.gifhttp://www.kalemasawaa.com/vb/images/smilies/p016.gifhttp://www.kalemasawaa.com/vb/images/smilies/p016.gif

اقتباس:

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المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة *اسلامي عزي*

http://www.kalemasawaa.com/vb/images/smilies/26.gif



in the name of Allah


Allah says :

( By the heaven and the Tarik (The Knocker) Ah, what will tell thee what the Tarik (The knocker) is! The piercing Star )

the holy Qura'n 86:1-3


1- The Knocker 's sound :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb0P6x_xDEU


The piercing Star:


http://www.kalemasawaa.com/vb/uploaded/2093_p .star.png



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fAS1t2v51xw


now the question is :

who tell the prophet Muhammad PUH about these scientific facts 1400 years ago ?????



http://www.kalemasawaa.com/vb/images/smilies/p016.gifhttp://www.kalemasawaa.com/vb/images/smilies/p016.gifhttp://www.kalemasawaa.com/vb/images/smilies/p016.gifhttp://www.kalemasawaa.com/vb/images/smilies/p016.gif

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Firstly, I'm impressed by your and other ability to read into what appears to be quite ambiguous verses from the Quran such in depth knowledge of astronomy.

Secondly, as the verses aren't exactly clear and I'm sure would be not be given serious consideration as scientific fact by any scientist today.

Thirdly... As there was a wealth of information on science in general... Including astronomy.. Long before the 6th century.. The possibility exists that if the chance exists somewhere in the world that knowledge was available.. Then you cannot rule out with any certainty that it was seen by people in Arabia during the lifetime of the prophet of I slam. Would you have us believe prophet Mohammed never left his home or interacted with other people... Some possibly well educated and well travelled.

the ancient Greeks were way ahead of the game in regards to science..the gospels had spread from Greece to Arabia before the 6th century so we know knowledge travelled.. I'm not saying prophet Mohammed came by information this way.. But he could have done.

Fourthly.. Personally ..these claims of scientific accuracy as some kind of proof of divinity of the Quran don't count for much. I am looking for spiritual guidance from scripture.. There are many "scientific" proofs also found in the Bible... Again I don't attach as much importance to them as I do to its spiritual guidance.

5 century astronomers

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1936PA.....44..180T

http://www.womanastronomer.com/hypatia.htm

I like the one on Hypatia.. Her being a woman and all... Way ahead of her time.

Peace.

اقتباس:

---

المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة pandora

Firstly, I'm impressed by your and other ability to read into what appears to be quite ambiguous verses from the Quran such in depth knowledge of astronomy.

Secondly, as the verses aren't exactly clear and I'm sure would be not be given serious consideration as scientific fact by any scientist today.

Thirdly... As there was a wealth of information on science in general... Including astronomy.. Long before the 6th century.. The possibility exists that if the chance exists somewhere in the world that knowledge was available.. Then you cannot rule out with any certainty that it was seen by people in Arabia during the lifetime of the prophet of I slam. Would you have us believe prophet Mohammed never left his home or interacted with other people... Some possibly well educated and well travelled.

the ancient Greeks were way ahead of the game in regards to science..the gospels had spread from Greece to Arabia before the 6th century so we know knowledge travelled.. I'm not saying prophet Mohammed came by information this way.. But he could have done.

Fourthly.. Personally ..these claims of scientific accuracy as some kind of proof of divinity of the Quran don't count for much. I am looking for spiritual guidance from scripture.. There are many "scientific" proofs also found in the Bible... Again I don't attach as much importance to them as I do to its spiritual guidance.

5 century astronomers

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/full/1936PA.....44..180T

http://www.womanastronomer.com/hypatia.htm

I like the one on Hypatia.. Her being a woman and all... Way ahead of her time.

Peace.

---

As for your first and second claim I answer with the interpritation or tafseer as the people during those times saw it ( I think that would be fair):

From the tafseer of ibn katheer :

The star of Ath-Thaqib.) Qatadah and others have said, "The star has been named Tariq because it is only seen at night and it is hidden during the day.'' His view is supported by what has been mentioned in the authentic Hadith that prohibits a man to come to his family Taruq. This means that he comes to them unexpectedly at nighttime. Concerning Allah's statement,

(Ath-Thaqib.) Ibn `Abbas said, "The illuminating.'' `Ikrimah said, "It is illuminating and it burns the Shaytan'


Ibn Abbas was the cousin of the prophet and Qatadah was one of his students so they are fairly old

To respond to your third point this kind of astronomy which records the sounds and the various kinds and shapes of stars did not exist till almost the late 19th century and the begining of the 20th century

However it is important to know that the arabs in the arabian penesula lived separately from roman influence . Yes there were caravans and trades but with arabs living in Syria . Also the cultural aspects of greece never reached Arabia . The arabs did not know plato and the other philosiphers nor did they care for such ideas .

اقتباس:

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I'm not saying prophet Mohammed came by information this way.. But he could have done.

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this is the wordy Pandora !
always words without proofs !

:king:

اقتباس:

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I like the one on Hypatia.. Her being a woman and all.Way ahead of her time.

---

was she a prophetess !????
she was a witch brutally tortured and murdered by the Christian monks !

اقتباس:

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the situation reached a tragic conclusion when a band of Christian monks seized Hypatia on the street, beat her, and dragged her body to a church where they mutilated her flesh with sharp tiles and burned her remains

---

.

http://cosmopolis.com/people/hypatia.html

does Hypatia talk about the knocker the piercing star ??
if YES put the proof. please !
as you see in the video no one before the 20 century was aware of the knocker and the piercing star's presence ! :king:

PEACE.

اقتباس:

---

المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة *اسلامي عزي*

this is the wordy Pandora !
always words without proofs !

:king:

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yep.. As it pleases you to say. :)

اقتباس:

---

was she a prophetess !????
she was a witch brutally tortured and murdered by the Christian monks !

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no she was a pagan.. And we all know how horribly pagans were treated by people of so called faith. Her religious belief or the fact she met an undeserved nasty end has nothing to do with the point I was making... That being their were many scientists ... Herself included.. discovering knew and wonderful things about the universe long before the sixth century. That none of this information apparently reached Arabia is what I find strange. Given the fact that the Arabic culture was one that embraced education and knowledge.... I find it even stranger.
You choose to use her demise as a stick to beat the Christians with, like you somehow believe we are somehow responsible or condone this behaviour. You just do not seem to get it..These atrocities were not according to the teachings of Jesus. That's why do not see how actions such as this have nothing to do with Christianity.. Here's a thought you may relate to... As you belief when muslims kill innocent people through an act of cowardly terrorism you would say they do not represent Islam.. Do you get the point????

http://cosmopolis.com/people/hypatia.html

اقتباس:

---

does Hypatia talk about the knocker the piercing star ??
if YES put the proof. please !
as you see in the video no one before the 20 century was aware of the knocker and the piercing star's presence ! :king:

PEACE.

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She may have done... If not her others may have done. Either way I'm not overly concerned, if you want to lay claim to scientific discoveries by today's standards from some ambiguous verses in the Quran that is you right and belief to do so. It doesn't convince me any.
I don't watch videos... I think I mentioned that before.

Peace.

اقتباس:

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no she was a pagan

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I know .
she is not a prophetess so you can not make a comparison between her and the Prophet Muhammad :salla: .

اقتباس:

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And we all know how horribly pagans were treated by people of so called faith

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Maybe you mean people of so called love !

Matthew 5 : 44

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

اقتباس:

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اقتباس:

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These atrocities were not according to the teachings of Jesus

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اقتباس:

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As you belief when muslims kill innocent people through an act of cowardly terrorism you would say they do not represent Islam.

---

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but who committed this heinous crime is not an ordinary person !
they are christians monks ( people of love ) .
maybe you think they do not represent christianity too !

اقتباس:

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She may have done

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i'll repeat it again : we want proofs not words !

PEACE.

اقتباس:

---

المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة *اسلامي عزي*

I know .
she is not a prophetess so you can not make a comparison between her and the Prophet Muhammad :salla: .

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I was not making any comparison... I simply chose her at random as an example that many people hundreds of years before the birth of prophet Mohammed were making scientific discoveries. You as usual are trying to make my words say something they do not.

اقتباس:

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Maybe you mean people of so called love !

Matthew 5 : 44

But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

---

Whatever works for you... Love and faith go hand in hand for a Christian.

اقتباس:

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but who committed this heinous crime is not an ordinary person !
they are christians monks ( people of love ) .
maybe you think they do not represent christianity too !

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Hang on a minute... Do you somehow think now that Christian monks are not ordinary people!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do you believe good people can commit sin? To answer your question... Again.. NO... THEY CEASE TO BE CHRISTIAN WHERE IT MATTERS.. IN THEIR HEART, AS SOON AS THEY ACT CONTRARY TO THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS.. They like you and like me and EVERY person on this earth will answer for THEIR sin at judgement.

اقتباس:

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i'll repeat it again : we want proofs not words !

PEACE.

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Thats me out of this thread.. :p012:

اقتباس:

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المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة محمد سني 1989

As for your first and second claim I answer with the interpritation or tafseer as the people during those times saw it ( I think that would be fair):

From the tafseer of ibn katheer :

The star of Ath-Thaqib.) Qatadah and others have said, "The star has been named Tariq because it is only seen at night and it is hidden during the day.'' His view is supported by what has been mentioned in the authentic Hadith that prohibits a man to come to his family Taruq. This means that he comes to them unexpectedly at nighttime. Concerning Allah's statement,

(Ath-Thaqib.) Ibn `Abbas said, "The illuminating.'' `Ikrimah said, "It is illuminating and it burns the Shaytan'


Ibn Abbas was the cousin of the prophet and Qatadah was one of his students so they are fairly old

To respond to your third point this kind of astronomy which records the sounds and the various kinds and shapes of stars did not exist till almost the late 19th century and the begining of the 20th century

However it is important to know that the arabs in the arabian penesula lived separately from roman influence . Yes there were caravans and trades but with arabs living in Syria . Also the cultural aspects of greece never reached Arabia . The arabs did not know plato and the other philosiphers nor did they care for such ideas .

---

I think this tafseer proves the point of brother اسلامي عزي

اقتباس:

---

المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة *اسلامي عزي*

this is the wordy Pandora !
always words without proofs !

:king:



was she a prophetess !????
she was a witch brutally tortured and murdered by the Christian monks !

.

http://cosmopolis.com/people/hypatia.html

does Hypatia talk about the knocker the piercing star ??
if YES put the proof. please !
as you see in the video no one before the 20 century was aware of the knocker and the piercing star's presence ! :king:

PEACE.

---

Even if all this Quranic ambiguity were pointing to supernatural scientific facts such as knockers, what makes you think the information came from God? Satan and demons have been around way before man and knows scientific facts way beyond the knowledge of man even until this day.

Is this a ploy of yours to convince us that Islam's prophet is my Creator's spokesman? I'll tell you the same I say to Mormons, Mormon prophet Joseph Smith is not the last prophet or seal of prophets for me.

Prophet Smith works for the Mormons and Prophet Muhammad works for Muslims, but they don't work for me. Only Jesus works for me, and He is claimed to be one of the foundations for Islam and a main foundation for Mormonism, but Mormons twist the Scriptures and write with their own hands just as Jehovah Witnesses do with their pen. We know Jesus is the only truth, and we know what has been added to our Scripture and taken away, because we didn't burn our copies!!!
Peace

اقتباس:

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المشاركة الأصلية كتبت بواسطة Burninglight

Even if all this Quranic ambiguity were pointing to supernatural scientific facts such as knockers, what makes you think the information came from God? Satan and demons have been around way before man and knows scientific facts way beyond the knowledge of man even until this day.

Is this a ploy of yours to convince us that Islam's prophet is my Creator's spokesman? I'll tell you the same I say to Mormons, Mormon prophet Joseph Smith is not the last prophet or seal of prophets for me.

Prophet Smith works for the Mormons and Prophet Muhammad works for Muslims, but they don't work for me. Only Jesus works for me, and He is claimed to be one of the foundations for Islam and a main foundation for Mormonism, but Mormons twist the Scriptures and write with their own hands just as Jehovah Witnesses do with their pen. We know Jesus is the only truth, and we know what has been added to our Scripture and taken away, because we didn't burn our copies!!!
Peace

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And what makes you think what christianity claims (trinity ) does not come from satan

Jesus does not work fro you it is paul who works for you :

Be ye followers of me… that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered [them] to you. (1 Corinthians 11:1)





While jesus peace be upon him says:


“If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed” (John 8:31)