أنقل لكم تتمة للحوار الشيق الذي دار بيني و بين النصراني المذكور في بداية مشاركتي هذه .. لقد انتهى هذا الحوار اليوم بنهاية مفجعة بعد أن أثقلت عليه الضربات فكانت آخرها التي قسمت ظهره و انهت الحوار بخروجه صامتاً من المسنجر دونما تعليق واحد !!
و الآن أترككم مع تفاصي الحوار :
al diazgerrero: goodmorning
DEXTER: ohhh hhii .. i was away
DEXTER: am sorry
DEXTER: good morning to u
DEXTER: how are u ?
DEXTER: are u still there ?
al diazgerrero: God bless you dex
DEXTER: Thanks , and may God guide us all
DEXTER: so whats up ?
al diazgerrero: how are you today i don't have time right now to talk very much, i am in the middle of something, but i wanted to say hello,
DEXTER: ko i see. am fine thanks.. have u thought of our conversation last time?
al diazgerrero: yes, very much
DEXTER: and what do u think ? do I make some sense ?
al diazgerrero: i think, think that what is imporant is that you feel good and be happy with what you beleive
DEXTER: I still have so many things to say ,, we have just begun .. and am sure we will find something at the end . something very intersteing that might change ourlives forever and we find true salvation for our souls
DEXTER: so whenever u feel free , let me know . am here for another 5 hours
al diazgerrero: well i found Jesus, (he found me) and i feel greatful for that, and for the truth he has revealed to me
DEXTER: we shall check that later . it is a long talk in that topic .. and i prefer we keep up the same way to check the reality of this statement ..
al diazgerrero: i dont intend to convince you of what i beleive in, i just want you to know that we should accept each other just the way we are, even though sometimes we dont agree in everything, that doesn't mean we can't be friends
DEXTER: sure ..
DEXTER: do we have sometime to check on something now ?
al diazgerrero: ok
DEXTER: ok .. last time we talked about two important tthings .
DEXTER: one of them was Trinity .. and we found that neither it makes any sense nor we found any validation for this doctrine .
DEXTER: and that makes it a false one ..
DEXTER: do we agree on that ?
al diazgerrero: well, the doctrine of the 3 persons in one god is true, according to the 1letter of john
DEXTER: and what does this verse say ?
al diazgerrero: let me check ok, i am going to look in an on-line bible
DEXTER: are u talking about the three witnesses ?
al diazgerrero: let me see
al diazgerrero: ok
DEXTER: is this the verse u are talking about : For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”
al diazgerrero: yes and then after that it states those those three are one
DEXTER: u seem to be quite ignorant of your Bible !!! am sorry to say that but it is true ..
DEXTER: if u go and check this verse in all modern Bibles u will never find it
al diazgerrero: i knew you were going to say that hahahaha
DEXTER: why ? it is not there in the Revised Standard Version
DEXTER: u see !! u are unable to validate this doctrine !! and yet u believe it is true!
al diazgerrero: you know something
al diazgerrero: do you remember the passage where martha was busy while maria was at the feet of jesus listening to him
DEXTER: hmm where was that ?
al diazgerrero: what jesus says is that very few things are important
DEXTER: what did he say ?
al diazgerrero: that few things are important
DEXTER: ? am not getting ur point
DEXTER: u there ?
al diazgerrero: someone called me, exxcuse me. i am back
al diazgerrero: you should read the passage for yourself
al diazgerrero: these to women were the sisters of lazaro
al diazgerrero: the one that jesus brought back to life
DEXTER: where was that ? what book ? what verse ?
al diazgerrero: i don't remember right now the chapter or verse, but what it tells me
DEXTER: ok .. what does it say ?
al diazgerrero: is that for meanings of salvation you do not to beleive everything, and it is not necessary to have useless discussions
DEXTER: yeah yeah ,, that is in John's Gospel
al diazgerrero: *do not have to beleive everything
DEXTER: lemmi check this strange statement ,. Hold on !!
al diazgerrero: the only tru important thing is to listen to Him
al diazgerrero: ok?
al diazgerrero: i said that is what i understand in that message
al diazgerrero: my "own" comprehension
DEXTER: ok gimme time to check on it
al diazgerrero: go on
DEXTER: now i got the chapter .. which verse are u talkin about ?
DEXTER: is it in the same chatpter of bringing the dead man alive ?
al diazgerrero: when Jesus was in there house, one of the women prefered to do the housekeeping while the other decided to listen to Him
al diazgerrero: and besides that the woman that was cleaning the house was in a very bad mood
DEXTER: what verse is that ? could u please help me ? i can not find such a statement
al diazgerrero: let me check ok
al diazgerrero: one minute please
DEXTER: it is chapter 11 , John
DEXTER: there is no such a verse , right ?
al diazgerrero: not there, i did not say it was in the same chapter or book where the miracle was made
al diazgerrero: i am looking somwhere else
DEXTER: ok .. take ur time ..
DEXTER: but trust me Jesus never made such a statement telling others to have blind faith . rather he was always there in the middle of crowds reasoning the Jews and never asked for blind faith
al diazgerrero: i am not speaking of blind faith,
al diazgerrero: may i ask you something ?
DEXTER: yeah sure
al diazgerrero: in time of sorrow, what do you prefer, a word of wisdom or a word of love
DEXTER: am not getting the point
DEXTER: and what has this to do with that ?
al diazgerrero: that God is the truth, and also love
al diazgerrero: and where the spirit of God is there is also liberty
DEXTER: Exactly .. and se should not neglect that He is the truth besides being Love !
DEXTER: if He is the trueth , then shy should we adopt doctrines God never mentioend ?
al diazgerrero: but my friend...Love is the truth
DEXTER: if Love is the same as using our mind, then there was no need for the first commandment to be the way it is: to Love thee Lord with all thee HEART AND MIND !!!
DEXTER: This AND means that we have to use our minds too in this love .
DEXTER: and using this mind means that we should not accept anything anyone says !! unless it is validated by God !
al diazgerrero: yes but it also means that we need to learn
al diazgerrero: we learn with our mind
al diazgerrero: we can't do something we ignore
DEXTER: and what is the first source for this task of learning ? isn't it Gd's word ?
al diazgerrero: and learning is a process that lasts a liftime
DEXTER: While God never mentioned that He was 3 in 1 . why should we say that ?
DEXTER: Is God that disabled to state this very important statement ?
al diazgerrero: ok
DEXTER: then , Trinity , or three persons in one , are nothing but an addition the word of God !
al diazgerrero: let's think you are right
al diazgerrero: what next
al diazgerrero: what is your point
DEXTER: just like the three wintesses are added to the Bible after 10 centuries of Jesus departure, that means christianity is not as genuine as we think it is . and we have to look and search to realize the truth between the lines
DEXTER: i hope that u be patient with me my friend .
al diazgerrero: hey, i like you as a friend
DEXTER: and trust me , am not trying to unglorify Jesus .. no! because He said: who Loves me keeps my words
al diazgerrero: but i beleive in jesuschrist
DEXTER: and I am trying to keep Jesus's words
DEXTER: and I believe in Jesus Christ too and I wanna know what Jesus really said !
al diazgerrero: and i dont need your guidance
DEXTER: so do we agree that Three persons in one is not a valid doctrine in the Bible and it is just an addition to it ?
al diazgerrero: what he did or said is in the bible
DEXTER: u sound angry at me
al diazgerrero: i am not
al diazgerrero: i just don;t understand why something like beleiving in the love of God is the cause of so many steril discussions
DEXTER: I wanna love God .. and Jesus said : IF u love me , u keep my words .. and that means: if we do not keep his words , then we do not love him . .do u undertand the seriousity of this statement ?
al diazgerrero: if you are convinced of what you beleive that should be enough for you, i am convinced about what i read in the bible
al diazgerrero: keeping his words means obedience
al diazgerrero: to obey his words
DEXTER: that is a very important statement u made : i am convinced about what i read in the bible .. and where did u find the three persons in the Bible ?
al diazgerrero: and i don't think you are ignorant
DEXTER: not ignorant at all . hopefully
al diazgerrero: where i told you before, at the beginning of our chat
DEXTER: so tell me .. do we agree or do we not , that this doctrine is not genuine and was added to christianity later on
DEXTER: because either we prrove it , or we ignore it
al diazgerrero: many things were added later
al diazgerrero: many
DEXTER: exactly!!!! many !! and we are gonna find out the true religion of Jesus Christ ..
DEXTER: the truth about his message !
al diazgerrero: many books were written, and it was necesary to choose from the books that were inspired by god and those that were not
al diazgerrero: the letter of santiago says
al diazgerrero: that the true religion is to visit widows and feed and dress the orphans
DEXTER: and that can never be done except we see what he did or say .. only then we know what Jesus really wanted us to believe
DEXTER: let me ask u something .. and that is very logic ..
al diazgerrero: yes
DEXTER: if I want to know what George Bush said , where do I search in the first place ?
DEXTER: do I search in the writings of someone esle ?
DEXTER: no! the first place to search is the writings of George Bush himslef
al diazgerrero: it is diffrent becuase Jesuschrist never wrote anything
al diazgerrero: by himself
DEXTER: yeah i agree ..
DEXTER: and that is my point! He never wrote anything, but ppl wrote down what he said .
al diazgerrero: and very little
al diazgerrero: becuase he was with them for three long years
DEXTER: so if Jesus said that God is one and never mentioned that God is three persons in one .. then someone comes and says that Jesus ment to say this statement , but he was unable to say it . would we believe that?
al diazgerrero: and i don't think that in three years Jesus did only what is written but many more things
DEXTER: the first source to look is the sayings and deed of Jesus Christ .
DEXTER: if it is not there , then it should not be anywhere else !! is that right or what ?
al diazgerrero: what jesus said, when an apostole asked him to show them the Father, he aswered clearly: I have been all this time with you, and you still don't recognize me?
DEXTER: so u want to move to discuss scriptures ?
DEXTER: just to concentrate on something ..
DEXTER: shall we move to this step ? have we hand enough for the first step ?
al diazgerrero: i am only chatting with you
al diazgerrero: you tell me i tell you
DEXTER: yeah .. I am too and wanna seek the truth with you if u don't mind
DEXTER: u said that many things were added to the message of Jesus , and we wanna check it out together . what do u say ?
DEXTER: in that way we know what we loved our Lord with both our hearts and minds
al diazgerrero: i never said that words were adde
al diazgerrero: added
DEXTER: and if i am disturbing u , them i am sorry .. we can stop whenever u want .
al diazgerrero: books -new- books were written
DEXTER: and statements also were added to these books .. just like the three wintesses were added to validate Trinity
al diazgerrero: after the old testament 27 new books were added those are the new testament
DEXTER: so tell me . are u with me in this Journey of truth seeking ?
DEXTER: u may wuite whenever u feel am wrong
al diazgerrero: everyday
al diazgerrero: i seek the truth through the word of god
DEXTER: or u can reason me . the way I shall reason u .. just like theLord said in Isaiah
al diazgerrero: and the word -bible-
DEXTER: we shall seek the truth in the Bible too . not outside resources
al diazgerrero: never contradicts itself
DEXTER: thats why , whatever outside the Bible should not be taken
DEXTER: do we agree on this ?
al diazgerrero: i never read anything else than the bible when i am seeking the truth
DEXTER: u have made a very clear and inportant statement : the Word of God never contradict itself !! that is one of the most importnat things we shall depend on in our seeking the truth in the Bible . do we agree ?
DEXTER: do we agree or not ?
al diazgerrero: i think that you are still seeking while i already found
DEXTER: does that mean u do not wanna reason me ? am I talking nonesense ?
al diazgerrero: no, i am hera to listen to you
DEXTER: thank you a lot my friend
al diazgerrero: *hear
al diazgerrero: here to listen
DEXTER: so. as we have just said , Three persons in One is not in the Bible . therefore , this is not a genuine doctrine that Jesus preached ..
al diazgerrero: did you know that God is Supernatural
al diazgerrero: what Jesus preached was love
al diazgerrero: love
DEXTER: that is the first step in our research
DEXTER: we shall check on this statement in our chat
DEXTER: so now . tell me .. did Jesus preach the original sin ?
al diazgerrero: wait please
DEXTER: ok tyt
al diazgerrero: something obvious...
al diazgerrero: do you believe in Jesus
al diazgerrero: i ask
DEXTER: just in the rate I believe in God . if I do not believe in Jesus , then I do not believe in God
DEXTER: I believe in Jesus, Moses , Abraham , Noah and all other prophets of God whom He sent
DEXTER: I deny none !
al diazgerrero: have you ever confessed it with your mouthi a prayer
DEXTER: more than 5 times aday
al diazgerrero: *in a prayer
DEXTER: in all sitiuations
al diazgerrero: read the letter to the romans in chapter ten
DEXTER: here now I tell u : I beleive in God , Jesus , Moses, Abraham and other prophets God sent
al diazgerrero: verse 9
DEXTER: lemmi check it
DEXTER: this is the saying of Paul .. not Jesus !
DEXTER: i wanna know what Jesus said ..
DEXTER: what Jesus preached
DEXTER: in his whole missionary life he never mentioned this statement
DEXTER: in all his missionary life he never asked ppl to stick to other things rather to keep the commandments .. whenever Jesus was asked for the path for salvaion , he said : keep the commandments .
al diazgerrero: one moment
DEXTER: and Jesus himself was the best example for keeping the commandment that he kept for 33 years and never broke any .. and never ever mentioned that he was God , or asked ppl to worship him , or asked ppl to believe in his atonement on the cross ..
DEXTER: he never said that we should throw the commandments away that he kept his whole life through 33 years .. and when someone asked him for PERFECTION , what did he say??? He say : Sell your belongings !! see! e never mentioned any belief in his atonement on the cross . he never mentioned that we only have to believe him on corss atoning for our sins and we get the true salvation .. but asked us to keep the commandments .. only that ! keep the comadments !! not to believe in his atonement on the cross
al diazgerrero: 1 min pls*
DEXTER: take ur time