Open topics on the Abrahamic faiths

آخـــر الـــمـــشـــاركــــات


مـواقـع شـقــيـقـة
شبكة الفرقان الإسلامية شبكة سبيل الإسلام شبكة كلمة سواء الدعوية منتديات حراس العقيدة
البشارة الإسلامية منتديات طريق الإيمان منتدى التوحيد مكتبة المهتدون
موقع الشيخ احمد ديدات تليفزيون الحقيقة شبكة برسوميات شبكة المسيح كلمة الله
غرفة الحوار الإسلامي المسيحي مكافح الشبهات شبكة الحقيقة الإسلامية موقع بشارة المسيح
شبكة البهائية فى الميزان شبكة الأحمدية فى الميزان مركز براهين شبكة ضد الإلحاد

يرجى عدم تناول موضوعات سياسية حتى لا تتعرض العضوية للحظر

 

       

         

 

    

 

 

    

 

Open topics on the Abrahamic faiths

Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 56

Thread: Open topics on the Abrahamic faiths

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,090
    Last Activity
    11-12-2017
    At
    08:37 PM

    Default

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by Burninglight View Post
    You said, "I didn't address John 1: 19-21" but look at the rest of the verse in context:
    19 And this is the (AO)testimony of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, “Who are you?” 20 He confessed, and did not deny, but confessed, “I am not the Christ.” 21 And they asked him, “What then? Are you Elijah?” He said, “I am not.” “Are you (AS)the Prophet?” And he answered, “No.” 22 So they said to him, “Who are you? We need to give an answer to those who sent us. What do you say about yourself?” 23 He said, “I am (AT)the voice of one crying out in the wilderness, ‘Make straight[g] the way of the Lord,’ as the prophet Isaiah said.”

    24 (Now they had been sent from the Pharisees.) 25 They asked him, (AU)“Then why are you baptizing, if you are neither the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?” 26 John answered them, (AV)“I baptize with water, but among you stands one you do not know, 27 even he who comes after me, the strap of whose sandal I am not worthy to untie.” 28 These things took place in Bethany across the Jordan, where John was baptizing.

    Behold, the Lamb of God

    29 The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world! 30 This is he of whom I said, ‘After me comes a man who ranks before me, because he was before me.’ 31 I myself did not know him, but for this purpose I came baptizing with water, that he might be revealed to Israel.” 32 And John bore witness: “I saw the Spirit descend from heaven like a dove, and it remained on him. 33 I myself did not know him, but he who sent me to baptize with water said to me, ‘He on whom you see the Spirit descend and remain, this is he who baptizes with the Holy Spirit.’ 34 And I have seen and have borne witness that this is the Son of God.” Not all Jews deny Jesus was a prophet and he did come for the house of Israel but they rejected him and Jesus gave parables that demonstrate that God has opened the door for all to receive Him as the gift of God.
    BTW, can I ask how long have you been Muslim? Were you born into it? I have never confronted a Muslim as tenacious as you. I do respect your zeal. What about Isaiah? I didn't see the verse you speak of

    Peace
    About me being tenacious well if by tenacious you mean presenting your ideas by supplying evidence for it then yes
    If by tenacious you mean holding on into a dying idea then my friend you hold the flag for that


    24 (Now they had been sent from the Pharisees.) 25 They asked him, (AU)“Then why are you baptizing, if you are neither the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?” 26

    The prophet not a prophet so the context actually serves what I am saying

    No you are wrong the jews did not believe in Jesus although they knew he was a true prophet and the messiah as all enemies of the prophet , do not try to falsly present the facts. Yes THERE WERE JEWS WHO BELIEVED IN JESUS but they were not much.

    No answer concerning the blessings of Ishmael in Genesis
    No answer concerning Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of Israel
    No response concerning the DEut 18 and the simmilarities between Moses and the prophet

    Try to give the person you are debating the respect to address his responses instead of your usual ignore and cut response , because this just shows the reader that you do not have an answer , you are making christians look bad .

    Note: My answers in this blogg is usually long because I always quote references and passages

    The passage of Isaiah is in response number 4

    I will tell you my personal information as long as you tell me the same
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

  2. #12
    *اسلامي عزي*'s Avatar
    *اسلامي عزي* is offline خادم رسول الله
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    5,737
    Religion
    Islam
    Gender
    Male
    Last Activity
    12-12-2017
    At
    10:27 AM

    Default

    Quote
    I am convinced that he is in the line of Kedar as you support and mention




    superb !

    can you deny the fact that arab muslims - through Ishmael their ancestor - are blessed by YHWH ???

    Genesis 17

    20 And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation.

    Quote
    Ishmael according to the Scripture that came before was rejected by God and Abraham as the child of promise
    i do not think so !
    This is what your holy scriptures say :

    Genesis 22

    2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.

    Isaac was realy the only son of Abraham ???
    its a big falsification & lie !

    Quote
    Therefore no prophetic line comes out of Ishmael
    Muhammad is a real prophet .
    here is the truth from the samaritan highest priest 's mouth !




    peace to you .
    Last edited by *اسلامي عزي*; 20-08-2014 at 10:42 PM.



    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي



    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

    أنقر(ي) فضلا أدناه :


    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي



    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي



    اللهمّ اهدنا و اهد بنا ،

    اللهمّ لا سهل إلا ما جعلته سهلاً، وأنت تجعل الحزن إذا شئت يارب سهلاً، اللهمّ سهّل علينا أمورنا واجعل أعمالنا خالصة لوجهك الكريم نلقاك بها يارب يوم
    الدين.

    آمين... آمين... آمين.



    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي



  3. #13
    Burninglight's Avatar
    Burninglight is offline new member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    496
    Religion
    Christianity
    Gender
    Male
    Last Activity
    11-11-2014
    At
    07:53 PM

    Default

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by محمد سني 1989 View Post
    About me being tenacious well if by tenacious you mean presenting your ideas by supplying evidence for it then yes
    If by tenacious you mean holding on into a dying idea then my friend you hold the flag for that


    24 (Now they had been sent from the Pharisees.) 25 They asked him, (AU)“Then why are you baptizing, if you are neither the Christ, nor Elijah, nor the Prophet?” 26

    The prophet not a prophet so the context actually serves what I am saying

    No you are wrong the jews did not believe in Jesus although they knew he was a true prophet and the messiah as all enemies of the prophet , do not try to falsly present the facts. Yes THERE WERE JEWS WHO BELIEVED IN JESUS but they were not much.

    No answer concerning the blessings of Ishmael in Genesis
    No answer concerning Jesus was sent to the lost sheep of Israel
    No response concerning the DEut 18 and the simmilarities between Moses and the prophet

    Try to give the person you are debating the respect to address his responses instead of your usual ignore and cut response , because this just shows the reader that you do not have an answer , you are making christians look bad .

    Note: My answers in this blogg is usually long because I always quote references and passages

    The passage of Isaiah is in response number 4

    I will tell you my personal information as long as you tell me the same
    I cannot deny that Ishmael was blessed by God to be a mighty and strong nation, but when God told Abraham take your "only son Isaac..." I don't see that as a lie, because after Ishmael was sent away by Abraham, Isaac was his only son of promise. Ishmael was blessed but Isaac was the child of promise meaning all prophets come out of his line and not Ishmael.
    I will tell you my personal information. I was born into Catholicism, but I left seeing how far removed they were from the Scriptures. I broke the hearts of my parents at the time. I am married to a Christian I meet in another country who like me forsook all she had to follow Christ as stated in Luke 14: 33. Your turn.
    Peace

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,090
    Last Activity
    11-12-2017
    At
    08:37 PM

    Default

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by Burninglight View Post
    I cannot deny that Ishmael was blessed by God to be a mighty and strong nation, but when God told Abraham take your "only son Isaac..." I don't see that as a lie, because after Ishmael was sent away by Abraham, Isaac was his only son of promise. Ishmael was blessed but Isaac was the child of promise meaning all prophets come out of his line and not Ishmael.
    I will tell you my personal information. I was born into Catholicism, but I left seeing how far removed they were from the Scriptures. I broke the hearts of my parents at the time. I am married to a Christian I meet in another country who like me forsook all she had to follow Christ as stated in Luke 14: 33. Your turn.
    Peace

    Thank you for being honest here.
    I was born a muslim , sunni sect , I stayed that way. Four years ago I started reading about christianity and judaism , I started having questions about other religions , what I saw from the bible , its history of gathering , its variations , discrepencies, christianities idea of monotheism and the early effect of Paul on the scriptues and his true identity and relationship with the deciples away from what christians claim, and how constantine changed christianity.
    These were only a few examples of why I rejected christianity and judaism

    Of course then I started researching about Suffis , shias, and abadiyyas , Most of them contradicted the context of the Quran . This process reaffimed my faith and helped me to start debating others (whether other sects of Islam or other religions) in different Bloggs

    As for what you said about ishmael , that still does mean that prophets cannot appear from his lineage .

    MORE IMPORTANTLY, Ishmael was older than Isaac yet the text says your only son!!!!!

    This is a contradiction !!! which affirms that it was Ishmael but the Jews when writting corrupted the text !!!

    Brother اسلامي عزي already stated this and I already discussed this in an earlier discussion

    How could Isaac be the only son when Ishmael is older and was still alive during that time !!???


    You did not answer what I said about simmilarities between Moses and Mohammed peace be upon them, no answe also on their bretheren in deut 18
    no answer regarding John's questioning
    no answer regarding the passage in Isaiah
    Last edited by محمد سني 1989; 21-08-2014 at 11:52 AM.
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

  5. #15
    pandora's Avatar
    pandora is offline member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    711
    Religion
    Christianity
    Gender
    Female
    Last Activity
    08-12-2014
    At
    07:22 PM

    Default

    Quote
    MORE IMPORTANTLY, Ishmael was older than Isaac yet the text says your only son!!!!!

    This is a contradiction !!! which affirms that it was Ishmael but the Jews when writting corrupted the text !!!


    Brother اسلامي عزي already stated this and I already discussed this in an earlier discussion


    How could Isaac be the only son when Ishmael is older and was still alive during that time !!???

    if I may could I just address this point, even though I feel this has been discussed an answered sufficiently there still seems some confusion. This has nothing to do with which son is the son of promise as decided by men... God has made this decision, the Bible clearly records it. It is not a contradiction, the Bible States Ishmael was the first born son... However he was NOT the first born of Abraham and Sarah, the first born son of Abraham and Sarah was Isaac... And it is this son that God decrees His covenant will be carried by. Isaac is the child of promise. There is no contradiction and no corruption of any texts on this matter. Firstly...

    Abraham


    First know by the name Abram, at the age of 75, he received his calling from God. God later changes his name to Abraham as God also changed the name of Abrahams wife Sarai to Sarah.


    "Now The Lord said to Abram, "Go from your country and your kindred and your father's house to the land that I will show you. And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you, and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and him who curses you I will curse; and by you all the families of the earth shall bless themselves." (Genesis 12:1-3 RSV)


    An important point about Abraham is that although all bloodline Jews of today are descended from him, Abraham himself was not a Jew. Abraham's son Isaac, had a son Jacob (who was renamed Israel), who had 12 sons (from whom came The Tribes Of Israel), one of which was Judah, from whom came the Jews. The first "Jew" was Judah, Abraham's great-grandson. Both Jews and Arabs are equally descended from Abraham, but Abraham himself was neither "Jew" nor "Arab".


    Isaac


    Isaac was the ONLY son of Abraham and Sarah, and the father of Esau and Jacob, who God renamed Israel. The patriarchs are often named together in both the Old Testament and New Testament.... when speaking to Moses, God said, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." (Exodus 3:6 RSV).


    Isaac's birth came about from a miracle - Abraham was 100 years old when Isaac was born, and Sarah, at age 90, had been unable to have children... God decreed..


    "Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac. I will establish My covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him and make him fruitful and multiply him exceedingly; he shall be the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation." (Genesis 17:19-20 RSV).


    Fourteen years before, when Abraham was 86, Sarah (then called Sarai) had arranged for a child to be born to Abraham through her own Egyptian maidservant, Hagar. Ishmael was born from the arrangement. The promise did not however go through Ishmael because the covenant had already been made with Abraham, with a yet-unborn Isaac the designated heir, before Ishmael was conceived or born. While God does not play favourites, He was also not bound to any other arrangements for children that Abraham and Sarah had taken upon themselves to bring about after the matter had been firmly decided by God.

    Ishmael


    Ishmael, meaning God hears, as we know was the son of Abraham and Hagar, the Egyptian maid of his wife Sarah. Through Sarah's lack of faith and her doubt of being able to bear a son in her advanced years she took it upon herself to ensure Abraham had a son by Hagar acting as a surrogate mother, even though God had specifically stated that a child (Isaac) would be born to Sarah in due time.


    Ishmael was born when Abraham was 86, 11 years after Abraham's arrival in what would become the land of Israel. He grew up to be a man of the desert wilderness, with a wild and hostile attitude toward people, exactly as God described him to his mother before he was born....


    "Behold, you are with child, and shall bear a son; you shall call his name Ishmael; because The Lord has given heed to your affliction. He shall be a wild ass of a man, his hand against every man and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell over against all his kinsmen." (Genesis 16:11-12 RSV).


    Sarah, who had come to dislike both Hagar and Ishmael, said to Abraham "Cast out this slave woman with her son; for the son of this slave woman shall not be heir with my son Isaac." (Genesis 21:10 RSV)


    Abraham opposed Sarah's demand - despite Ishmael's difficult personality, Abraham loved him and did not want to see him go. God however settled the matter:


    "But God said to Abraham, "Be not displeased because of the lad and because of your slave woman; whatever Sarah says to you, do as she tells you, for through Isaac shall your descendants be named. And I will make a nation of the son of the slave woman also, because he is your offspring." (Genesis 21:12-13 RSV)

    God did bless Ishmael and promised he would be a father of great nations.. However, that does not mean that any prophets were to come from his line. You are reading that into the text on the basis that Isaac was not an only son, thus ignoring Gods decree.. And wishful thinking that the blessing upon Ishmael is more than it was. When even the Quran does not name the child as Ishmael.

    Peace unto you.

  6. #16
    *اسلامي عزي*'s Avatar
    *اسلامي عزي* is offline خادم رسول الله
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    5,737
    Religion
    Islam
    Gender
    Male
    Last Activity
    12-12-2017
    At
    10:27 AM

    Default

    Quote
    I cannot deny that Ishmael was blessed by God to be a mighty and strong nation
    i'm not asking about Ishmael but about arab -muslims !
    I 'll repeat the question :

    can you deny the fact that arab muslims - through Ishmael their ancestor - are blessed by YHWH ???

    I want an honest answer !

    Quote
    Genesis 22
    2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of..
    can you tell me the exact location of the Moriah 's land ???

    Note :

    I'm still waiting for your comments about the samaritan highest priest 's video !

    peace.



    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي



    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

    أنقر(ي) فضلا أدناه :


    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي



    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي



    اللهمّ اهدنا و اهد بنا ،

    اللهمّ لا سهل إلا ما جعلته سهلاً، وأنت تجعل الحزن إذا شئت يارب سهلاً، اللهمّ سهّل علينا أمورنا واجعل أعمالنا خالصة لوجهك الكريم نلقاك بها يارب يوم
    الدين.

    آمين... آمين... آمين.



    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي



  7. #17
    Burninglight's Avatar
    Burninglight is offline new member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    496
    Religion
    Christianity
    Gender
    Male
    Last Activity
    11-11-2014
    At
    07:53 PM

    Default

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by *اسلامي عزي* View Post
    i'm not asking about Ishmael but about arab -muslims !
    I 'll repeat the question :

    can you deny the fact that arab muslims - through Ishmael their ancestor - are blessed by YHWH ???

    I want an honest answer !.
    You did NOT need to ask me for an honest answer. I have been as honest on this forum as possible for me as one who must give account to my God.
    My answer is: I cannot deny Arab Muslims are blessed by my God and Creator as the offspring of Ishmael. They are a powerful nation and people blessed no doubt. I believe Islam has come out of that blessing from God, but my faith doesn't allow me to part take of that blessing for we are the offspring of Isaac, and we have our own blessings. Additionally, a religion comes out of our blessings of promise as well. From Judaism comes Christianity. Abraham wanted Ishmael to be the child of promise but God said: "No, in Isaac will your seed be named"
    The birth of Christianity appears to have happened as a result of Allah deceiving the Jews into believing that Jesus died on the cross. Therefore, and as a result, Christianity has become a thorn in the side of Islam that Islam has not been able to remove. Can you deny this?
    So, I look at Allah and in my mind's eye, I see him as not the same Allah of the Christian Arabs for obvious reasons such as the Christian God has His Word incarnate that He calls His "Beloved Son" and Islam's god has no son. Finally, both of our religions can't be right; they are mutually exclusive to say the least. Why would I want to follow a God that tricks people into believing something is true that isn't? How could I see him as the best of planners (Deceivers) when his plan since the time Christianity started to date has been a self defeating one???



    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by *اسلامي عزي* View Post

    can you tell me the exact location of the Moriah 's land ???

    Note :

    I'm still waiting for your comments about the samaritan highest priest 's video !

    peace.
    I don't know what to make of this video. If this video is from God then it says that Muhammad is a prophet for the Jews who gives them confirming signs. The video, however has an information hole in it that doesn't connect with me.

    Peace

  8. #18
    *اسلامي عزي*'s Avatar
    *اسلامي عزي* is offline خادم رسول الله
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    5,737
    Religion
    Islam
    Gender
    Male
    Last Activity
    12-12-2017
    At
    10:27 AM

    Default

    Quote
    I cannot deny Arab Muslims are blessed by my God and Creator as the offspring of Ishmael.
    In the result the prophet Mohammad as an Arab Muslim was blessed by YHWH .
    Yes or No ???

    Quote
    I don't know what to make of this video. If this video is from God then it says that Muhammad is a prophet for the Jews who gives them confirming signs. The video, however has an information hole in it that doesn't connect with me.
    Do you think the samaritan highest priest was a liar ???

    Quote
    can you tell me the exact location of the Moriah 's land ???
    I'm still waiting for your answer !

    I ' ask the God of Abraham to guide us all to the right road .



    Amen .
    peace .



    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي



    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

    أنقر(ي) فضلا أدناه :


    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي



    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي



    اللهمّ اهدنا و اهد بنا ،

    اللهمّ لا سهل إلا ما جعلته سهلاً، وأنت تجعل الحزن إذا شئت يارب سهلاً، اللهمّ سهّل علينا أمورنا واجعل أعمالنا خالصة لوجهك الكريم نلقاك بها يارب يوم
    الدين.

    آمين... آمين... آمين.



    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي



  9. #19
    pandora's Avatar
    pandora is offline member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    711
    Religion
    Christianity
    Gender
    Female
    Last Activity
    08-12-2014
    At
    07:22 PM

    Default

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by *اسلامي عزي* View Post
    In the result the prophet Mohammad as an Arab Muslim was blessed by YHWH .
    Yes or No ???
    if prophet Mohammed was indeed a descendant of Ishmael then as an Arab Muslim he would be under the blessing of YHWH.. As would any Arab Muslim or not. Burning light has already answered this is so.. Is it possible you did not see his post?? Just to be clear being blessed by YHWH is NOT the same as being under the covenant promise. So... Yes, to your question.

    Quote
    Do you think the samaritan highest priest was a liar ???
    no comment as I can't see any link to any video.

    Quote
    can you tell me the exact location of the Moriah 's land ???
    Mount Moriah in Old City Jerusalem is the site of numerous biblical acts of faith. It is also one of the most valuable pieces of real estate and one of the most hotly contested pieces of real estate on earth. This is a profoundly sacred area to Christians, Jews, and Muslims. Sitting atop Mount Moriah today is the Temple Mount, a 37-acre tract of land where the Jewish temple once stood. Several important Islamic holy sites are there now, including the Dome of the Rock – a Muslim shrine built thirteen hundred years ago – and the Al-Aqsa Mosque.


    Mount Moriah’s history begins in Genesis. In the twenty-second chapter, God commands Abraham, “Take now your son, your only son, whom you love, Isaac, and go to the land of Moriah, and offer him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains which I will tell you” (Genesis 22:2). The place God led Abraham was Mount Moriah. Abraham didn’t fully understand what God was asking him to do in light of God’s previous promise to establish an everlasting covenant with Isaac (Genesis 17:19); nonetheless, he trusted God and by faith offered Isaac as a sacrifice. Of course, God intervened and spared Isaac’s life by providing a ram instead. Abraham thereafter called this place “The LORD Will Provide. And to this day it is said, ‘On the mountain of the LORD it will be provided’” (Genesis 22:14). Because of Abraham’s obedience on Mount Moriah, God told Abraham that his “descendants will take possession of the cities of their enemies, and through your offspring all nations on earth will be blessed because you have obeyed me” (vv. 17, 18).


    About a thousand years later at this very location, King David bought the threshing floor of Araunah the Jebusite and built an altar to the Lord so that a “plague may be held back from the people”(2 Samuel 24:18, 21). After David’s death, his son King Solomon built a glorious temple on the same site. Solomon’s temple lasted for over four hundred years until it was destroyed by King Nebuchadnezzar’s armies in 587/586 B.C.


    Seventy years later the temple was rebuilt on the same site by the Jews who returned to Jerusalem following their Babylon captivity. Around the first century, King Herod made a significant addition to this structure, which then became known as Herod’s Temple. It was this temple that Jesus cleansed (John 2:15).


    However, in A.D. 70, the Roman armies led by Titus, son of the Emperor Vespasian, once again destroyed the temple. All that remains of the Temple Mount of that era is a portion of a retaining wall known as the “Western Wall” or the “Wailing Wall.” It has been a destination for pilgrims and a site of prayer for Jews for many centuries.


    The God who first called Abraham to Mount Moriah still has plans for that place. The Bible indicates that a third temple will be built on or near the site of Solomon’s temple (Daniel 9:27). This would seem to present a problem given the political obstacles that stand in the way: the religious activities on the Temple Mount are currently controlled by the Supreme Muslim Council (the Waqf). Yet nothing can put a wrinkle in God’s sovereign plans. Thus, Muslim control of this area simply fulfills the prophecy of Luke 21:24 that “Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.”


    Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/mount-Mo...#ixzz3B47utuan

    Quote
    I'm still waiting for your answer !

    I ' ask the God of Abraham to guide us all to the right road .

    Amen .
    peace .
    What do you see as the significance of Temple Mount being in the hands of muslims today?

    Peace.

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    1,090
    Last Activity
    11-12-2017
    At
    08:37 PM

    Default

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by pandora View Post
    if I may could I just address this point, even though I feel this has been discussed an answered sufficiently there still seems some confusion. This has nothing to do with which son is the son of promise as decided by men... God has made this decision, the Bible clearly records it. It is not a contradiction, the Bible States Ishmael was the first born son... However he was NOT the first born of Abraham and Sarah, the first born son of Abraham and Sarah was Isaac... And it is this son that God decrees His covenant will be carried by. Isaac is the child of promise. There is no contradiction and no corruption of any texts on this matter. Firstly...

    Abraham


    First know by the name Abram, at the age of 75, he received his calling from God. God later changes his name to Abraham as God also changed the name of Abrahams wife Sarai to Sarah.


    "Now The Lord said to Abram, "Go from your country and your kindred and your father's house to the land that I will show you. And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you, and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and him who curses you I will curse; and by you all the families of the earth shall bless themselves." (Genesis 12:1-3 RSV)


    An important point about Abraham is that although all bloodline Jews of today are descended from him, Abraham himself was not a Jew. Abraham's son Isaac, had a son Jacob (who was renamed Israel), who had 12 sons (from whom came The Tribes Of Israel), one of which was Judah, from whom came the Jews. The first "Jew" was Judah, Abraham's great-grandson. Both Jews and Arabs are equally descended from Abraham, but Abraham himself was neither "Jew" nor "Arab".


    Isaac


    Isaac was the ONLY son of Abraham and Sarah, and the father of Esau and Jacob, who God renamed Israel. The patriarchs are often named together in both the Old Testament and New Testament.... when speaking to Moses, God said, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." (Exodus 3:6 RSV).


    Isaac's birth came about from a miracle - Abraham was 100 years old when Isaac was born, and Sarah, at age 90, had been unable to have children... God decreed..


    "Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac. I will establish My covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him and make him fruitful and multiply him exceedingly; he shall be the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation." (Genesis 17:19-20 RSV).


    Fourteen years before, when Abraham was 86, Sarah (then called Sarai) had arranged for a child to be born to Abraham through her own Egyptian maidservant, Hagar. Ishmael was born from the arrangement. The promise did not however go through Ishmael because the covenant had already been made with Abraham, with a yet-unborn Isaac the designated heir, before Ishmael was conceived or born. While God does not play favourites, He was also not bound to any other arrangements for children that Abraham and Sarah had taken upon themselves to bring about after the matter had been firmly decided by God.

    Ishmael


    Ishmael, meaning God hears, as we know was the son of Abraham and Hagar, the Egyptian maid of his wife Sarah. Through Sarah's lack of faith and her doubt of being able to bear a son in her advanced years she took it upon herself to ensure Abraham had a son by Hagar acting as a surrogate mother, even though God had specifically stated that a child (Isaac) would be born to Sarah in due time.


    Ishmael was born when Abraham was 86, 11 years after Abraham's arrival in what would become the land of Israel. He grew up to be a man of the desert wilderness, with a wild and hostile attitude toward people, exactly as God described him to his mother before he was born....


    "Behold, you are with child, and shall bear a son; you shall call his name Ishmael; because The Lord has given heed to your affliction. He shall be a wild ass of a man, his hand against every man and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell over against all his kinsmen." (Genesis 16:11-12 RSV).


    Sarah, who had come to dislike both Hagar and Ishmael, said to Abraham "Cast out this slave woman with her son; for the son of this slave woman shall not be heir with my son Isaac." (Genesis 21:10 RSV)


    Abraham opposed Sarah's demand - despite Ishmael's difficult personality, Abraham loved him and did not want to see him go. God however settled the matter:


    "But God said to Abraham, "Be not displeased because of the lad and because of your slave woman; whatever Sarah says to you, do as she tells you, for through Isaac shall your descendants be named. And I will make a nation of the son of the slave woman also, because he is your offspring." (Genesis 21:12-13 RSV)

    God did bless Ishmael and promised he would be a father of great nations.. However, that does not mean that any prophets were to come from his line. You are reading that into the text on the basis that Isaac was not an only son, thus ignoring Gods decree.. And wishful thinking that the blessing upon Ishmael is more than it was. When even the Quran does not name the child as Ishmael.

    Peace unto you.

    Yes this point has been addressed and you did not answer


    However in the points above you have answered your own question

    First god blessed Abraham and told him he would be a great nation :

    Now The Lord said to Abram, "Go from your country and your kindred and your father's house to the land that I will show you. And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you, and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. I will bless those who bless you, and him who curses you I will curse; and by you all the families of the earth shall bless themselves." (Genesis 12:1-3 RSV)

    So Abraham's blessing and greatness comes from his decendents by blessing Abraham and blessing themselves (this is what muslims say five times a day during prayer : the prayer goes like this God bless Muhammed and his family as you have blessed Abraham and his family .....)

    So a great nation blesses Abaraham , also they :

    6 Observe them carefully, for thus will
    you give evidence of your wisdom and intelligence to the nations
    , who will hear of all these statutes and say,
    'This great nation is truly a wise and intelligent people.'
    7 For what great nation is there that has gods so close to it as the LORD, our God, is to us whenever we call upon him?
    8 Or what great nation has statutes and decrees that are as just as this whole law which I am setting before you today?
    Deutronomy 4: 6-8

    So a great nation in the bible is one which worships god alone and has the law of god and glorifies Abraham and blesses him which applies to the arabs in the prophecy of genesis



    Going to see how this applies to Ishmael from what you said :

    "But God said to Abraham, "Be not displeased because of the lad and because of your slave woman; whatever Sarah says to you, do as she tells you, for through Isaac shall your descendants be named. And I will make a nation of the son of the slave woman also, because he is your offspring." (Genesis 21:12-13 RSV)

    Also :

    Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac. I will establish My covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his descendants after him. As for Ishmael, I have heard you; behold, I will bless him and make him fruitful and multiply him exceedingly; he shall be the father of twelve princes, and I will make him a great nation." (Genesis 17:19-20 RSV).

    It is not me who is nitpicking from the bible , you need to read the passage carefully and compare it together

    The same phrase used by god to Abraham is used to Ishmael .

    Plus this does not actually answer what I said in my last response :

    MORE IMPORTANTLY, Ishmael was older than Isaac yet the text says your only son!!!!!

    This is a contradiction !!! which affirms that it was Ishmael but the Jews when writting corrupted the text !!!


    Brother اسلامي عزي already stated this and I already discussed this in an earlier discussion


    How could Isaac be the only son when Ishmael is older and was still alive during that time !!???

    No matter what the text clearly stated your only son not your only son from Sarah!!!!!
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

Page 2 of 6 FirstFirst 1 2 3 ... LastLast

Open topics on the Abrahamic faiths

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 15-06-2014, 07:16 AM
  2. An Open Letter To Her Parents
    By فداء الرسول in forum Following Up With New Muslims
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 24-04-2014, 05:42 PM
  3. Changing faiths: Hispanic Americans leaving Catholicism for Islam
    By فداء الرسول in forum Following Up With New Muslims
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 25-08-2013, 12:45 AM
  4. Islamic Topics
    By نعيم الزايدي in forum English Forum
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 21-04-2012, 12:31 AM
  5. Fifteen Islamic topics
    By نعيم الزايدي in forum English Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 24-12-2011, 12:52 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Open topics on the Abrahamic faiths

Open topics on the Abrahamic faiths