Without Muslims ... !!??

آخـــر الـــمـــشـــاركــــات


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شبكة الفرقان الإسلامية شبكة سبيل الإسلام شبكة كلمة سواء الدعوية منتديات حراس العقيدة
البشارة الإسلامية منتديات طريق الإيمان منتدى التوحيد مكتبة المهتدون
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Without Muslims ... !!??

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Thread: Without Muslims ... !!??

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burninglight View Post
    Look, the Quran tells us to stand on what has been revealed to us. Not that we need the advice, because we know what we need to do. The Quran doesn't say the Bible is corrupted. It says the opposite to me: Say: "O People of the Book!
    Ye have no ground to stand upon
    unless you stand fast
    by the Torah, the Gospel, and all the revelation
    that has come to you from your Lord."
    Surah 5:68
    This is what we do. If the Bible is corrupted than so is the Quran, and if the Bible isn't corrupted so is the Quran, because the Quran makes itself mutually exclusive from the Scripture God promised to preserve and established forever in heaven that came first to us people of the Book.
    Besides, I find a discrepancy in the Quran, for instance, Allah implies that the three we should desist from saying are the son, mother and father. Allah alludes to Mary being part of the trinity. He questions Jesus: "did you say take you and your mother to two gods besides me. There is the implied three by Allah: the son, the mother and father, No Christian worships such a trinity. Nor do any Christians consider Allah the third person of God's tri unity. Allah said, "they do disbelieve who say Allah is the third of three" who does that? Allah didn't know and had misconceptions of the Christian trinity. IOW, no Christian is in violation of the three described by Allah and his messenger. Islam is only a reaction against its own misconceptions of Christianity. So how in the world can that be a religion we should follow?
    peace
    You don't get it you are misinterpirating islamic texts accroding to your own misconception and taking it to your understanding

    This whole response is a weak attempt to remove us from the actual subject

    here is the context of the verse you misinterpirated :

    Say, "O People of the Scripture, you are [standing] on nothing until you uphold [the law of] the Torah, the Gospel, and what has been revealed to you from your Lord." And that which has been revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase many of them in transgression and disbelief. So do not grieve over the disbelieving people.
    ًً
    Interpritation from tafseer ibn katheer:


    (O People of the Scripture! You have nothing...) meaning no real religion until you adhere to and implement the Tawrah and the Injil. That is, until you believe in all the Books that you have that Allah revealed to the Prophets. These Books command following Muhammad and believing in his prophecy, all the while adhering to his Law.

    The verse here is talking about the original revelation not the ones they have on hand, in

    tafseer altabary in the interpritation of thisverse it is reported by ibn Abbas that a number of

    jews came to the prophet and asked him if he belived in the torah , the prophet replied by

    yes howerver stating that they changed and refused what has been said in the torah ,

    ultimately this Hadeeth proves that the verse is talking about the original revelations by god


    Also you said that the Quran depicts Mary as the third person of trinity Where in the world

    the quran stated that mary was the third person in Trinity???



    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

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    Quote Originally Posted by محمد سني 1989 View Post
    You don't get it you are misinterpirating islamic texts accroding to your own misconception and taking it to your understanding

    This whole response is a weak attempt to remove us from the actual subject

    here is the context of the verse you misinterpirated :

    Say, "O People of the Scripture, you are [standing] on nothing until you uphold [the law of] the Torah, the Gospel, and what has been revealed to you from your Lord." And that which has been revealed to you from your Lord will surely increase many of them in transgression and disbelief. So do not grieve over the disbelieving people.
    ًً
    Interpritation from tafseer ibn katheer:


    (O People of the Scripture! You have nothing...) meaning no real religion until you adhere to and implement the Tawrah and the Injil. That is, until you believe in all the Books that you have that Allah revealed to the Prophets. These Books command following Muhammad and believing in his prophecy, all the while adhering to his Law.

    The verse here is talking about the original revelation not the ones they have on hand, in

    tafseer altabary in the interpritation of thisverse it is reported by ibn Abbas that a number of

    jews came to the prophet and asked him if he belived in the torah , the prophet replied by

    yes howerver stating that they changed and refused what has been said in the torah ,

    ultimately this Hadeeth proves that the verse is talking about the original revelations by god


    Also you said that the Quran depicts Mary as the third person of trinity Where in the world

    the quran stated that mary was the third person in Trinity???



    I never said the Quran depicts Mary as the third person of the trinity; go back and read carefully. I see in the verses you quoted that we are to believe in the torah and gospel, and I see you added your interpretation that we are to believe in the Quran as well, but the verse doesn't say what you want me to believe.

    Peace

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burninglight View Post
    I never said the Quran depicts Mary as the third person of the trinity; go back and read carefully. I see in the verses you quoted that we are to believe in the torah and gospel, and I see you added your interpretation that we are to believe in the Quran as well, but the verse doesn't say what you want me to believe.

    Peace
    As for the interpritation I brought you the interpritation of Ibn Katheer and the interpritation of Altabary based on the narration of ibn Abbass the cousin of the prophet peace and blessings be upon him

    What you said was this :

    Allah alludes to Mary being part of the trinity. He questions Jesus: "did you say take you and your mother to two gods besides me
    The verse you stated has no trinity in it , it clearly state beside me . It is important to know that catholicism had a huge history of the excessive worship of Mary as the mother of god that is just one example .
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

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    Quote Originally Posted by محمد سني 1989 View Post
    As for the interpritation I brought you the interpritation of Ibn Katheer and the interpritation of Altabary based on the narration of ibn Abbass the cousin of the prophet peace and blessings be upon him

    What you said was this :

    Allah alludes to Mary being part of the trinity. He questions Jesus: "did you say take you and your mother to two gods besides me
    The verse you stated has no trinity in it , it clearly state beside me . It is important to know that catholicism had a huge history of the excessive worship of Mary as the mother of god that is just one example .
    I was born and raised Catholic; so I know what they believe. As once being Catholic, I never believed Mary was God. If Mary was God she would have to be part of the trinity. The Bible says no such thing and the Quran doesn't explicitly say she is part of the trinity, but one can logically infer that the Quran alludes to the trinity being the son, mother (Mary) and the father (Allah). If you cannot see how this can be logically inferred, you need to open your eyes or be honest.

    If Allah didn't mean to imply Mary was part of the trinity why did he ask Jesus did you say take you and your mother for two gods? Catholics worshipped all the saints not just Jesus and Mary. Allah singled out Jesus and Mary as the two gods besides him. I count three. How many do you count? If Allah didn't mean what he said, then why didn't he say what he meant?
    Personally, I see it as Allah having a misconception of the three he tells us to desist from saying. He even mistakenly thought Christians considered Allah the third of the three when he said "they do disbelieve who say Allah is the third of three" Who considered God the father the third of the three in question? Not even the Catholics did or do this. So who was Allah referring to? If Allah believed Christians considered Mary God which he did, he would have said say not four instead of three, but he didn't know about us believing the Holy Spirit was and is God. Uhm???
    This is a discrepancy that cannot be repaired, and it tells me that Islam's prophet contrived the Quran based on his hatred of Christianity; therefore, true Christians are now seeing that Islam is mostly a reaction against Christianity. Ironically, Allah is blaming Christians for the Christianity he had part in starting by deceiving people into believing that Jesus died. He is the one who made it appear to be so; therefore, in my mind's eye, he has part in creating a religion that has always been greater than Islam in number and doctrine till this day. IMHO, the real deception wasn't making Jesus appear to have been crucified; it was getting people to believe that He didn't die for our sin so these people will have a Christless eternity. This confusion doesn't come from the one and only true God I love and worship!

    peace

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burninglight View Post
    I was born and raised Catholic; so I know what they believe. As once being Catholic, I never believed Mary was God. If Mary was God she would have to be part of the trinity. The Bible says no such thing and the Quran doesn't explicitly say she is part of the trinity, but one can logically infer that the Quran alludes to the trinity being the son, mother (Mary) and the father (Allah). If you cannot see how this can be logically inferred, you need to open your eyes or be honest.

    If Allah didn't mean to imply Mary was part of the trinity why did he ask Jesus did you say take you and your mother for two gods? Catholics worshipped all the saints not just Jesus and Mary. Allah singled out Jesus and Mary as the two gods besides him. I count three. How many do you count? If Allah didn't mean what he said, then why didn't he say what he meant?
    Personally, I see it as Allah having a misconception of the three he tells us to desist from saying. He even mistakenly thought Christians considered Allah the third of the three when he said "they do disbelieve who say Allah is the third of three" Who considered God the father the third of the three in question? Not even the Catholics did or do this. So who was Allah referring to? If Allah believed Christians considered Mary God which he did, he would have said say not four instead of three, but he didn't know about us believing the Holy Spirit was and is God. Uhm???
    This is a discrepancy that cannot be repaired, and it tells me that Islam's prophet contrived the Quran based on his hatred of Christianity; therefore, true Christians are now seeing that Islam is mostly a reaction against Christianity. Ironically, Allah is blaming Christians for the Christianity he had part in starting by deceiving people into believing that Jesus died. He is the one who made it appear to be so; therefore, in my mind's eye, he has part in creating a religion that has always been greater than Islam in number and doctrine till this day. IMHO, the real deception wasn't making Jesus appear to have been crucified; it was getting people to believe that He didn't die for our sin so these people will have a Christless eternity. This confusion doesn't come from the one and only true God I love and worship!

    peace

    All of what you said in red has actually nothing to do with our discussions

    Second you ignored my whole response . Here is what I said:

    It is important to know that catholicism had a huge history of the excessive worship of Mary as the mother of god that is just one example

    Second : I already told you that the verse does not say the third rather a third and I already stated this in another subject but you think that you would catch me by gullie as paul did with early christians
    a third of three which means part of trinitarian

    As for your so called allusion ACTUALLY its your delusion . Never not once in the Quran did god state that Mary was part of trinity if the so verse says that then why did god in the passage said beside me rather with me

    However :1.More importantly the verse :

    And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, 'Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden. [Qur'an 5:116]

    This verse reffers to the worship of Mary and jesus . The worship of mary in catholicism to an extent where Mary is elavated to a degree of an almost goddess like figure exists within the HISTORY of catholicism as I said, she is considered the holy mother of god , the queen of heaven , here are some examples:

    Pope Benedict XV said of Mary that "[O]ne can justly say that with Christ, she herself redeemed mankind

    source: In the Encyclical Intersodalicia (1918). Quoted in Donald G. Bloesch, Essentials of Evangelical Theology, Vol. 1, page 196


    Pope Pius IX said: "Our salvation is based upon the holy Virgin... so that if there is any hope and spiritual healing for us we receive it solely and uniquely from her
    Source : In the Encyclical Intersodalicia (1918). Quoted in Donald G. Bloesch, Essentials of Evangelical Theology, Vol. 1, page 196


    Mary's Divine motherhood is based on the teaching of the Gospels, on the writings of the Fathers, and on the express definition of the Church. St. Matthew (1:25) testifies that Mary "brought forth her first-born son" and that He was called Jesus. According to St. John (1:15) Jesus is the Word made flesh, the Word Who assumed human nature in the womb of Mary. As Mary was truly the mother of Jesus, and as Jesus was truly God from the first moment of His conception, Mary is truly the mother of God. Even the earliest Fathers did not hesitate to draw this conclusion as may be seen in the writings of St. Ignatius [72], St. Irenaeus [73], and Tertullian [74]. The contention of Nestorius denying to Mary the title "Mother of God" [75] was followed by the teaching of the Council of Ephesus proclaiming Mary to be Theotokos in the true sense of the word. [76]

    Source : Catholic enclopedia:

    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm

    The official rosary of the catholic church :
    Hail, Holy Queen, Mother of Mercy, hail, our life, our sweetness, and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve! To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this vale of tears. Turn then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us; and after this, our exile, show us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary!"
    http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/rosary.htm

    In fact, the One whom she conceived as man by the Holy Spirit, who truly became her son according to the flesh, was none other than the Father's eternal Son, the second person of the Holy Trinity. Hence the Church confesses that Mary is truly "Mother of God" (Theotokos). [Catechism of the Catholic Church,] (p. 125)"

    So if you are saying that the belief that mary is the mother of God and the queen of heaven who people can pray to , is not a form of a goddess like worship then I do not know what is , true they did not claim she was god or a goddess but she was treated as so

    Now and the most important point is that again the quran never said that she was part of trinity rather that is your own interpritation

    Also god stated the name of jesus as been taken as god by christians in this verse without taking mary in consideration:

    People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger from Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not "Three": desist: It will be better for you: For Allah is One God: Glory be to Him: (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. [Qur'an 4:171]

    God mentioned here the status of jesus without stating the status of Mary which shows that the quran never depicted mary as part of the trinity

    peace


    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

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    All of what you said in red has actually nothing to do with our discussions

    Second you ignored my whole response . Here is what I said:

    It is important to know that catholicism had a huge history of the excessive worship of Mary as the mother of god that is just one example

    Second : I already told you that the verse does not say the third rather a third and I already stated this in another subject but you think that you would catch me by gullie as paul did with early christians
    a third of three which means part of trinitarian

    As for your so called allusion ACTUALLY its your delusion . Never not once in the Quran did god state that Mary was part of trinity if the so verse says that then why did god in the passage said beside me rather with me

    However :1.More importantly the verse :

    And behold! Allah will say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, 'Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! Never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden. [Qur'an 5:116]

    This verse reffers to the worship of Mary and jesus . The worship of mary in catholicism to an extent where Mary is elavated to a degree of an almost goddess like figure exists within the HISTORY of catholicism as I said, she is considered the holy mother of god , the queen of heaven , here are some examples:

    Pope Benedict XV said of Mary that "[O]ne can justly say that with Christ, she herself redeemed mankind

    source: In the Encyclical Intersodalicia (1918). Quoted in Donald G. Bloesch, Essentials of Evangelical Theology, Vol. 1, page 196


    Pope Pius IX said: "Our salvation is based upon the holy Virgin... so that if there is any hope and spiritual healing for us we receive it solely and uniquely from her
    Source : In the Encyclical Intersodalicia (1918). Quoted in Donald G. Bloesch, Essentials of Evangelical Theology, Vol. 1, page 196


    Mary's Divine motherhood is based on the teaching of the Gospels, on the writings of the Fathers, and on the express definition of the Church. St. Matthew (1:25) testifies that Mary "brought forth her first-born son" and that He was called Jesus. According to St. John (1:15) Jesus is the Word made flesh, the Word Who assumed human nature in the womb of Mary. As Mary was truly the mother of Jesus, and as Jesus was truly God from the first moment of His conception, Mary is truly the mother of God. Even the earliest Fathers did not hesitate to draw this conclusion as may be seen in the writings of St. Ignatius [72], St. Irenaeus [73], and Tertullian [74]. The contention of Nestorius denying to Mary the title "Mother of God" [75] was followed by the teaching of the Council of Ephesus proclaiming Mary to be Theotokos in the true sense of the word. [76]

    Source : Catholic enclopedia:

    http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm

    The official rosary of the catholic church :
    Hail, Holy Queen, Mother of Mercy, hail, our life, our sweetness, and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve! To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping in this vale of tears. Turn then, most gracious advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us; and after this, our exile, show us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary!"
    http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/rosary.htm

    In fact, the One whom she conceived as man by the Holy Spirit, who truly became her son according to the flesh, was none other than the Father's eternal Son, the second person of the Holy Trinity. Hence the Church confesses that Mary is truly "Mother of God" (Theotokos). [Catechism of the Catholic Church,] (p. 125)"

    So if you are saying that the belief that mary is the mother of God and the queen of heaven who people can pray to , is not a form of a goddess like worship then I do not know what is , true they did not claim she was god or a goddess but she was treated as so

    Now and the most important point is that again the quran never said that she was part of trinity rather that is your own interpritation

    Also god stated the name of jesus as been taken as god by christians in this verse without taking mary in consideration:

    People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger from Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not "Three": desist: It will be better for you: For Allah is One God: Glory be to Him: (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. [Qur'an 4:171]

    God mentioned here the status of jesus without stating the status of Mary which shows that the quran never depicted mary as part of the trinity

    peace


    SIGH, First of all, the verse reads like this: "They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no God save the One God. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve." You saying "a third" is not honest exegesis, and it is an obvious cover up for what I consider a discrepancy. You may say it doesn't have anything to do with the topic, but your are obviously using that as a red herring. As for what the Catholic Church did with Mary, this is not BIBLICAL Christianity. So Allah's beef is with the Catholics and not true Biblical Christianity OR CHRISTIANS. He was reacting to Catholicism is what you are telling me whether your realize it or not.
    That doesn't cut it for me. I am not a Catholic worshipper of Mary or any saints nor is it Biblical to do such a thing. It idolatry and pagan. But get this, not even the Catholics considered Allah the third person of the trinity or a third of the trinity. NO Christians be they Catholic or not ever considered that God comes in thirds either. So even if your dishonest exegesis of the Quran were true, and you know it is not, it is a misconception. This is enough of a discrepancy for me to see that the only way Islam can support itself is to tear down Christianity; otherwise, it doesn't stand on its own. IMHO, I see as tantamount to a man that is drowning, and in an attempt to save himself tries to drown the person trying to save him. Please spare me your rhetoric, and be honest for a change. Finally, I never said Allah said Jesus and Mary were part of the trinity; I said it is the only thing that scholars can logically infer from what Allah asked Jesus and by what He said not to do in regards to "say not three"

    Peace

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    SIGH, First of all, the verse reads like this: "They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no God save the One God. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve." You saying "a third" is not honest exegesis, and it is an obvious cover up for what I consider a discrepancy. You may say it doesn't have anything to do with the topic, but your are obviously using that as a red herring. As for what the Catholic Church did with Mary, this is not BIBLICAL Christianity. So Allah's beef is with the Catholics and not true Biblical Christianity OR CHRISTIANS. He was reacting to Catholicism is what you are telling me whether your realize it or not.
    That doesn't cut it for me. I am not a Catholic worshipper of Mary or any saints nor is it Biblical to do such a thing. It idolatry and pagan. But get this, not even the Catholics considered Allah the third person of the trinity or a third of the trinity. NO Christians be they Catholic or not ever considered that God comes in thirds either. So even if your dishonest exegesis of the Quran were true, and you know it is not, it is a misconception. This is enough of a discrepancy for me to see that the only way Islam can support itself is to tear down Christianity; otherwise, it doesn't stand on its own. IMHO, I see as tantamount to a man that is drowning, and in an attempt to save himself tries to drown the person trying to save him. Please spare me your rhetoric, and be honest for a change. Finally, I never said Allah said Jesus and Mary were part of the trinity; I said it is the only thing that scholars can logically infer from what Allah asked Jesus and by what He said not to do in regards to "say not three"

    Peace

    You are being dishonest the verse reads a third no the third , ثالث ثلاثة not ثالث الثلاثة in arabic ال is the so you are really talking about things which you have no idea about so stop making a fool of yourself any 5 year old arabic speakin child would laugh on such a claim. You are being dishonest liar .You need to do some research in arabic before accusing others of what you are.

    One statement by you is absurd and needs some addressing :

    As for what the Catholic Church did with Mary, this is not BIBLICAL Christianity. So Allah's beef is with the Catholics and not true Biblical Christianity OR CHRISTIANS. He was reacting to Catholicism is what you are telling me whether your realize it or not.
    This statement by you shows that God should have addressed only one sect of christianity rather all , This is an absurred claim , catholics existed back then and still do . To muslims we do not have something called true christians or not true , God speaks and addresses all christians in their claim. You saying would be like a christian considering some muslim sects to be true and others non true !!!!

    As for biblical , well first of all there is no mention of trinity in the bible so best for you to not go in there . More importantly God is addressing the CLAIMS of christians whether in the bible or not (not meaning like trinity which does not exist in the bible but yet mentioned and addressed in the quran)

    As for catholics : you really are oblivious if you think catholics do not believe in trinity just like how you are completely oblivious about arabic language , which makes you a dishonest liar. Father which is god (Allah in arabic) jesus son of god and the holy spirit John 20:17 Jesus said "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.

    1 Corinthians 8:6 "yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live."

    I see you as a man trapped in a well and every time he tries to reach the top he falls upon his butt being the sad desperate and lost person he is. So spare me your complete oblivious comments which does not actually give an actual answer

    No answer to Mary being the mother of god nor to the passages I quoted from catholicism. Sad just simply a sad response


    You did say that the quran alludes to mary being part of trinity so do not lie

    peace
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

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    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by محمد سني 1989 View Post
    You are being dishonest the verse reads a third no the third , ثالث ثلاثة not ثالث الثلاثة in arabic ال is the so you are really talking about things which you have no idea about so stop making a fool of yourself any 5 year old arabic speakin child would laugh on such a claim. You are being dishonest liar .You need to do some research in arabic before accusing others of what you are.

    One statement by you is absurd and needs some addressing :

    As for what the Catholic Church did with Mary, this is not BIBLICAL Christianity. So Allah's beef is with the Catholics and not true Biblical Christianity OR CHRISTIANS. He was reacting to Catholicism is what you are telling me whether your realize it or not.
    This statement by you shows that God should have addressed only one sect of christianity rather all , This is an absurred claim , catholics existed back then and still do . To muslims we do not have something called true christians or not true , God speaks and addresses all christians in their claim. You saying would be like a christian considering some muslim sects to be true and others non true !!!!

    As for biblical , well first of all there is no mention of trinity in the bible so best for you to not go in there . More importantly God is addressing the CLAIMS of christians whether in the bible or not (not meaning like trinity which does not exist in the bible but yet mentioned and addressed in the quran)

    As for catholics : you really are oblivious if you think catholics do not believe in trinity just like how you are completely oblivious about arabic language , which makes you a dishonest liar. Father which is god (Allah in arabic) jesus son of god and the holy spirit John 20:17 Jesus said "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.

    1 Corinthians 8:6 "yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live."

    I see you as a man trapped in a well and every time he tries to reach the top he falls upon his butt being the sad desperate and lost person he is. So spare me your complete oblivious comments which does not actually give an actual answer

    No answer to Mary being the mother of god nor to the passages I quoted from catholicism. Sad just simply a sad response


    You did say that the quran alludes to mary being part of trinity so do not lie

    peace

    I would also like to add this piece of evidence too:

    But let this holy city of Rome be the first to give the example, this city which from the earliest Christian era
    worshipped
    the heavenly mother

    المصدر : FULGENS CORONA, Encyclical Of Pope PIUS XII
    http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pi...corona_en.html

    This is from brother نيو from his thread:

    بالصور و الروابط المسيحيه : إثبات عباده مريم العذراء فى المسيحيه و نسف كل الشبهات حول قوله تعالى (اتخذوني وأمي إلهين من دون الله )
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

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    Quote Originally Posted by محمد سني 1989 View Post
    I would also like to add this piece of evidence too:

    But let this holy city of Rome be the first to give the example, this city which from the earliest Christian era
    worshipped
    the heavenly mother

    المصدر : FULGENS CORONA, Encyclical Of Pope PIUS XII
    http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pi...corona_en.html

    This is from brother نيو from his thread:

    بالصور و الروابط المسيحيه : إثبات عباده مريم العذراء فى المسيحيه و نسف كل الشبهات حول قوله تعالى (اتخذوني وأمي إلهين من دون الله )
    But this doesn't prove that Catholics considered her God or more importantly that the true spirit of Christianity worshipped Mary. True Christians know that the worship of Mary is wrong and idolatry. Even the Bible tells us it is wrong.
    So, Allah is reacting to Catholicism which doesn't follow true Biblical Christianity. It is like a new religion coming down on Muslims that worship the black stone of the Kaaba this is not what all Muslims do, but some kiss the stone and bow to it much like Catholics do to stone statues of Mary. The point is Catholics to us are what the Quranist or Shia are to the Sunni Muslims. Quranist believe Sunni Muslims commit shirk in the second part of the shahada. I can see their point, but I believe they are misguided as well accepting the Quran and Islam's prophet as God's message and messenger.
    peace

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burninglight View Post
    But this doesn't prove that Catholics considered her God or more importantly that the true spirit of Christianity worshipped Mary. True Christians know that the worship of Mary is wrong and idolatry. Even the Bible tells us it is wrong.
    So, Allah is reacting to Catholicism which doesn't follow true Biblical Christianity. It is like a new religion coming down on Muslims that worship the black stone of the Kaaba this is not what all Muslims do, but some kiss the stone and bow to it much like Catholics do to stone statues of Mary. The point is Catholics to us are what the Quranist or Shia are to the Sunni Muslims. Quranist believe Sunni Muslims commit shirk in the second part of the shahada. I can see their point, but I believe they are misguided as well accepting the Quran and Islam's prophet as God's message and messenger.
    peace
    Your logic is the same which a feresy jew would say that Jesus only should address them not the other sects of the jews , to a christian there is no such thing Jesus addresses all the israelites !!!

    Same here God addresses all the claims , we do not belive what you claim is true so to us there is no difference

    They worshipped her so I think even though they did not consider her a goddess , they sure treated her as so

    I think the word worship speaks for itself

    peace
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

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Without Muslims ... !!??

Without Muslims ... !!??