Which makes more sense Islam or Christianity

آخـــر الـــمـــشـــاركــــات


مـواقـع شـقــيـقـة
شبكة الفرقان الإسلامية شبكة سبيل الإسلام شبكة كلمة سواء الدعوية منتديات حراس العقيدة
البشارة الإسلامية منتديات طريق الإيمان منتدى التوحيد مكتبة المهتدون
موقع الشيخ احمد ديدات تليفزيون الحقيقة شبكة برسوميات المرصد الإسلامي لمقاومة التنصير
غرفة الحوار الإسلامي المسيحي مكافح الشبهات شبكة الحقيقة الإسلامية موقع الدعوة الإسلامية
شبكة البهائية فى الميزان شبكة الأحمدية فى الميزان مركز براهين شبكة ضد الإلحاد

يرجى عدم تناول موضوعات سياسية حتى لا تتعرض العضوية للحظر

 

       

         

 

    

 

 

    

 

Which makes more sense Islam or Christianity

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Thread: Which makes more sense Islam or Christianity

  1. #81
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    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by محمد سني 1989 View Post
    You asked for a name not a proof
    No, I asked for proof, and I receive none!

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by محمد سني 1989 View Post
    [/FONT][/RIGHT]
    The orginal Quran was returned to Hafsa during Uthman's time , can't be more clear than that.
    This brings me up to ask you another question : Are such variations from different writters indpired by God???
    Variations are not inspired, but the message we get out of the manuscripts after correcting nonsense errors are. Man makes mistakes in spite of that we can still see what God was doing and saying. It doesn't hurt the central gospel message. If you think it does, say how. Do you even know what the central gospel message is?

    As for Hafsa's copy being returned, this is known, but you neglect to mention that it was also destroyed after her death. Why didn't Allah guard what Uthman used to recompile the Quran you now use? This does nothing to inspire trust or to prove you now have a Quran that was perfectly preserved much less proof that it is God's word.

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by محمد سني 1989 View Post

    That is not my responsibility . It is a debator's reponsibility to quote right and be ready before a debate and not just say stuff out of his mind that is not how debates work my friend plus the verses you are talking about do not exist!!!!
    fair enough

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by محمد سني 1989 View Post

    ummmm , how about debate integrity , something which you obviously lack
    You used the wrong word try debate etiquette instead of debate integrity, but fair enough.

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by محمد سني 1989 View Post

    Yes that is the mainstream interpritation of christianity , but still there is a big question mark on the word hate. plus it was a response to you
    Why use hate , plus the context did no mention what you are saying!!!
    That was the word used, but I know how Jesus meant it in context even though that wasn't stated, and you don't want to learn.

    I will pray the same for you but remember I stated two questions for you above which I expect an answer in the next response of yours, lets see if you will answer or will you ignore it ??[/QUOTE] Okay lets give you the quote integrity you want. The Quran states about the Injil:

    And in their footsteps, We sent 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) confirming the Taurat (Torah) that had come before him, and We gave him the Injeel (Gospel), in which was guidance and light and confirmation of the Taurat (Torah) that had come before it, a guidance and an admonition for Al-Muttaqun (the pious - see V.2:2). S. 5:46 Al-Hilali & Khan; cf. S. 57:27 (By the way didn't Allah know that Maryam was NOT the name of Jesus' Mother? Is that an error?)

    He [Jesus] said, "Lo, I am God's servant; God has given me the Book, and made me a Prophet." S. 19:30 Arberry (BTW, there is nothing to back up that God sent Jesus a Book in the Scriptures that came before)

    It is He Who has sent down the Book (the Qur'an) to you (Muhammad SAW) with truth, confirming what came before it. And he sent down the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel). S. 3:3 Al-Hilali & Khan (This would have been a perfect place for Allah to state that the torah and injeel were missing or corrupted, but he didn't)

    Sura 5:46 states that the Injil was given to Jesus by Allah. What I tried to tell you that you said didn't exist is in Sura 19:30 and 3:3 confirms that the Injil is a book just as the Qur'an and the Torah are books that were sent down by Allah with no mention of corruption or a missing injil. In fact, Allah tells Muhammad the Quran which means recitation was supposed to confirm the Scripture that came before, but it doesn't confirm it; instead it usurps it.

    The Qur'an SAYS MORE regarding the Injil:

    Let the people of the Injeel (Gospel) judge by what Allah has revealed therein. ... S. 5:47 Al-Hilali & Khan That is me, I am the person of the Book speaking to 1989!!!

    Say: "People of the Book, you do not stand on anything, until you perform the Torah and the Gospel [Injil], and what was sent down to you from your Lord." ... S. 5:68 Arberry
    We do this. and we have received the torah and Injil from our Lord, but you would have us doubt AS ACCURATE what your book confirms we have received!!!

    Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel [Injil] (which are) with them. S. 7:157 Pickthall

    [Say (O Muhammad SAW)] "Shall I seek a judge other than Allah while it is He Who has sent down unto you the Book (The Qur'an), explained in detail." Those unto whom We gave the Scripture [the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] know that it is revealed from your Lord in truth. So be not you of those who doubt. S. 6:114 Al-Hilali & Khan This verse here proves to you that I didn't just make things up: The torah and gospel were sent to us and Allah tells (O Muhammad) this and he says nothing about it being corrupted. We still have the same torah and gospel Allah said he sent to us and your prophet was a witness to what you now say was corrupted.

    To me this verses makes clear that the Injil is the book of the Christians (the people of the Book) (ME), the book that is with me and which we Christians believe in. The Qur'an even tells us Christians to fully obey the Torah and the Injil that they had at the time your prophet was living. Can you answer to that?

    I see a discrepancy: When we look at the New Testament our Scriptures, we see that it nowhere makes the claim that it is a book that was "given to Jesus". On the contrary, the New Testament consists of several books that were written by followers of Jesus (under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit) AFTER the ascension of Jesus.

    Now please pay attention to this: the Injil can either be a book given to Jesus, or it can be the book that the Christians have as their Scriptures, but it cannot be both. Your prophet Muhammad apparently assumed that the Scripture of the Christians (and Jews) would be very similar to the Qur'an, the book which he thought he received from Allah. However, he was, IMHO, clearly ##### on the matter as you are. As I have mentioned many times to you, the essential nature of the Qur'an and the Bible are very different, but you insist on judging it the way you do the Quran.
    IOW, a book "given to Jesus" in the same way as Muhammad claims to have received the Qur'an does not exist. I have never claimed that such a book existed at any time nor do my Christians brothers and sisters. This claim of S. 5:46 is merely a wrong idea that sprang from the mind of your prophet.

    Had the author of the Qur'an made only statements like those found in S. 5:46 and 19:30, it might have been an option for Muslims to claim that the Injil of Jesus was simply lost. Jesus received such a book but, somehow, it disappeared. Muslims could have said that the NT clearly is something very different from the Injil as defined by the Qur'an, and could have concluded that therefore they do not believe in the Christian New Testament since the Qur'an does not endorse it, but instead the Quran imperfectly borrows the virgin birth story of Jesus from the Injil and denies the reason for his virgin birth instead of confirming it like Allah TOLD HIS MESSENGER IT WAS SUPPOSED TO DO. You are stuck with a mess here.

    The Qur'an identifies the Injil as the Scripture of the Christians, right? Since the Injil is the book of the Christians, the Qur'an makes a blatantly wrong claim about the basic nature of the Injil being a book given to Jesus. Moreover, we are told to stand on the gospel that was revealed to us and I believe we do and you can never pull us down. The Quran is confusing. When you really observe it carefully, the more confusing it gets, this is another reason Christianity makes more sense with all of its variants.

    So tell me how could this misconception arise in the mind of your prophet? He may have heard statements like in the first verse of the Gospel according to Mark: The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, ... I say he could have heard this because he was unread. Seems logical that could've have happened to him.

    He could have mistakenly thought that this meant the same as "the Torah of Moses" i.e. a revelation given to a prophet in form of a book. However, reading the context shows that it means "this is the beginning of the Gospel ABOUT Jesus Christ"; the Gospel is the message telling us about the life and teaching of Jesus, written up by his followers, not a book given to Jesus himself.

    Islam's prophet projected his own ideas of receiving revelation of a book (the Qur'an) on Jesus and simply assumed that the book of Jesus that was and is still held sacred by his followers and us on the forum here must also have been a book given to Jesus (like the sacred book of the Muslims is the book given to your messenger). However, he was wrong about this, and you follow this error. This mistake exposes the Qur'an you follow, and that is why Christianity makes more sense than Islam. IMHO, the Qur'an is not divine revelation but a collection of mistaken assumptions by its author. When you point your finger at the Bible you have four pointing back at you.

    You keep screaming the Bible is corrupted. Many Muslim do this so don't feel singled out. When the Qur'an contradicts the Bible, Muslims shout, "but the Bible is corrupted", as if that is the answer and solution to every such problem. This is the way you deal in debate. The Bible is corrupted it has variants that change the central gospel message, but it doesn't and you have not been able to prove how it has. You have been pawned and can't admit it. Why? Is it pride?

    Now let say why crying corruption won't work and kill this thing once and for all.

    As I mentioned many times, the Qur'an never claims that the Injil is corrupted. That is an inference you make. There are certain accusations against the Jews, but no charge that the Christians corrupted their Scripture. What the Qur'an says about the Bible, lets investigates this matter closely and it shows that the Qur'an does not support the Muslim claim of NT Bible corruption; in fact, the Quran borrowed from it as I mentioned above. Why would it borrow from a corrupted book. LOL.

    Finally, even if there had been more variants then we know of (what you call corruption) of certain passages, these small changes and nonsense errors resulting in certain shifts of meaning don't effect the central gospel message, but you say it does, How? Can you possibly explain the above contradiction in the Qur'an. Here we have a fundamental difference in the nature of the Bible which cannot be accounted for either with gradual changes or with a sudden change. I haven't heard you tell me when it got corrupted, by who, where and how did they benefit from it. How did the injil get corrupted or how did it disappear?

    The Qur'an was "sent down" from Allah to Muhammad supposedly. It was (supposedly) not written by your prophet, but given to him by Allah through Gabriel. OTOH, the Hadith are memories of the companions and followers of Muhammad, formulated and written up by Muslims long after the death of Muhammad. They are their recollection of what Muhammad said and did. Some of these memories are rejected by Muslims but some don't such as the satanic verses and many other such things that help us see why Christianity makes more sense than Islam.

    Would it be possible for anyone to change the Qur'an (the book given to Muhammad) into a collection of hadiths without the Muslim community realizing that their scripture had changed into something entirely different?

    Without doubt, you will say "NO." But if it is impossible for the Muslim book and community, why would you or any Muslim think that this would have been possible in the Christian community? Your thinking is not equal if you didn't think of this. Originally, the Christians had a "book given to Jesus" but one day they woke up and their scripture had turned into a collection of writings by followers of Jesus and nobody realized the change, and nobody protested against it? Belief in this theory demands blind faith in the Qur'an. Common sense will have to conclude that this cannot possibly have happened, and this implies that the author of the Qur'an simply made an error regarding the nature of the Christian Scripture. I guess common sense is not so common, and for this reason Christianity makes more sense than Islam!

    Peace
    Last edited by *اسلامي عزي*; 27-08-2014 at 02:11 PM. Reason: deleting insults

  2. #82
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    How do you figure this is me saying that born again means more knowledge?

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    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by Burninglight View Post
    No, I asked for proof, and I receive none!
    Yes you did in my last response example : ending of Mark. Your original question was the name and you know it

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ;Burninglight



    Variations are not inspired, but the message we get out of the manuscripts after correcting nonsense errors are. Man makes mistakes in spite of that we can still see what God was doing and saying. It doesn't hurt the central gospel message. If you think it does, say how. Do you even know what the central gospel message is?
    Smokescreen now you are trying to debate what the central message is??? Do you deny that the ressurection is part of the central theme??

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ;Burninglight
    As for Hafsa's copy being returned, this is known, but you neglect to mention that it was also destroyed after her death. Why didn't Allah guard what Uthman used to recompile the Quran you now use? This does nothing to inspire trust or to prove you now have a Quran that was perfectly preserved much less proof that it is God's word.
    LOL yet you forgot to mention that the burning occurred 20 years later after Uthman's death and after all islamic countries had copies of the Quran so thus burning does not matter and it does not occur during the time of Uthman. Waht is important is we have these narrations to indicate it



    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ;Burninglight


    That was the word used, but I know how Jesus meant it in context even though that wasn't stated, and you don't want to learn.
    Here is a question : How do you know Jesus meant that

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ;Burninglight

    I will pray the same for you but remember I stated two questions for you above which I expect an answer in the next response of yours, lets see if you will answer or will you ignore it ?? Okay lets give you the quote integrity you want. The Quran states about the Injil:

    And in their footsteps, We sent 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) confirming the Taurat (Torah) that had come before him, and We gave him the Injeel (Gospel), in which was guidance and light and confirmation of the Taurat (Torah) that had come before it, a guidance and an admonition for Al-Muttaqun (the pious - see V.2:2). S. 5:46 Al-Hilali & Khan; cf. S. 57:27 (By the way didn't Allah know that Maryam was NOT the name of Jesus' Mother? Is that an error?)
    Again you are ignoring my last response I already stated this was talking about the original Gospel not your Four corrupted read the verse :
    and we gave him the injeel

    also more importantly , Maryam , LOL you really do not know the difference in linguistic . Maryam مريم is the arabic translation of Mary , LOL your analogy and argument is really funny and reflects your own ignorance about Jesus and Mary. Their Hebrew original names were Yeshua and Miriyam but you would not get that since as you know little about the bible as you said LOL

    He [Jesus] said, "Lo, I am God's servant; God has given me the Book, and made me a Prophet." S. 19:30 Arberry (BTW, there is nothing to back up that God sent Jesus a Book in the Scriptures that came before)

    It is He Who has sent down the Book (the Qur'an) to you (Muhammad SAW) with truth, confirming what came before it. And he sent down the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel). S. 3:3 Al-Hilali & Khan (This would have been a perfect place for Allah to state that the torah and injeel were missing or corrupted, but he didn't)

    LOL your statement here is funny because God did ORGINALLY send down the Torah and Gospel but then they were corrupted as OTHER VERSES say as I have showed

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ;Burninglight

    Sura 5:46 states that the Injil was given to Jesus by Allah. What I tried to tell you that you said didn't exist is in Sura 19:30 and 3:3 confirms that the Injil is a book just as the Qur'an and the Torah are books that were sent down by Allah with no mention of corruption or a missing injil. In fact, Allah tells Muhammad the Quran which means recitation was supposed to confirm the Scripture that came before, but it doesn't confirm it; instead it usurps it.
    The confirmation is to the original manuscripts which were revealed to Moses and Jesus, your lack of knowledge led you to conclude that we muslims deny the revelation to Moses and Jesus , yet the verses specifically is talking about the original torah and gospel not the current corrupt manuscripts LOL that is pathetic

    Plus you took certain verses misinterperate without even reading it (since all the verses talks about what was revealed to Moses and Jesus NOT what came after) and you also ognored these verses which I have already stated in response number 74:

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ;محمد سني 1989

    Here you go :

    Do you covet [the hope, O believers], that they would believe for you while a party of them used to hear the words of Allah and then distort the Torah after they had understood it while they were knowing?Quran 1:75

    Among the Jews are those who distort words from their [proper] usages and say, "We hear and disobey" and "Hear but be not heard" and "Ra'ina," twisting their tongues and defaming the religion.
    Quran 4: 46

    So for their breaking of the covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard. They distort words from their [proper] usages and have forgotten a portion of that of which they were reminded. And you will still observe deceit among them, except a few of them. But pardon them and overlook [their misdeeds]. Indeed, Allah loves the doers of good.Quran 5:13


    O People of the Scripture, why do you confuse the truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while you know [it]?

    Quran 3:71


    And [mention, O Muhammad], when Allah took a covenant from those who were given the Scripture, [saying], "You must make it clear to the people and not conceal it." But they threw it away behind their backs and exchanged it for a small price. And wretched is that which they purchased.
    Quran 3: 187


    So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.
    Quran 2: 79



    From hadeeth :

    Narrated Ubaidullah bin `Abdullah bin `Utba:

    Ibn `Abbas said, "O Muslims? How do you ask the people of the Scriptures, though your Book (i.e. the Qur'an) which was revealed to His Prophet is the most recent information from Allah and you recite it, the Book that has not been distorted? Allah has revealed to you that the people of the scriptures have changed with their own hands what was revealed to them and they have said (as regards their changed Scriptures): This is from Allah, in order to get some worldly benefit thereby." Ibn `Abbas added: "Isn't the knowledge revealed to you sufficient to prevent you from asking them? By Allah I have never seen any one of them asking (Muslims) about what has been revealed to you."


    Saheeh Bukhary
    Vol. 3, Book 48, Hadith 850





    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ; Burninglight
    The Qur'an SAYS MORE regarding the Injil:

    Let the people of the Injeel (Gospel) judge by what Allah has revealed therein. ... S. 5:47 Al-Hilali & Khan That is me, I am the person of the Book speaking to 1989!!!

    Say: "People of the Book, you do not stand on anything, until you perform the Torah and the Gospel [Injil], and what was sent down to you from your Lord." ... S. 5:68 Arberry
    We do this. and we have received the torah and Injil from our Lord, but you would have us doubt AS ACCURATE what your book confirms we have received!!!


    Copying and pasting while lying , this is a new level even for you


    The context of the verse:


    You stripped the verse out of its context intentionally :
    And We sent, following in their footsteps, Jesus, the son of Mary, confirming that which came before him in the Torah; and We gave him the Gospel, in which was guidance and light and confirming that which preceded it of the Torah as guidance and instruction for the righteous.47 And let the People of the Gospel judge by what Allah has revealed therein. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the defiantly disobedient.48 And We have revealed to you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming that which preceded it of the Scripture and as a criterion over it. So judge between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations away from what has come to you of the truth. To each of you We prescribed a law and a method. Had Allah willed, He would have made you one nation [united in religion], but [He intended] to test you in what He has given you; so race to [all that is] good. To Allah is your return all together, and He will [then] inform you concerning that over which you used to differ.49 And judge, [O Muhammad], between them by what Allah has revealed and do not follow their inclinations and beware of them, lest they tempt you away from some of what Allah has revealed to you. And if they turn away - then know that Allah only intends to afflict them with some of their [own] sins. And indeed, many among the people are defiantly disobedient.

    So If you actually read the verse right the verse is talking about the belivers during the time of Jesus not after , which why god said let the people of the gospel meaning the original gospel at the time of Jesus , then god said that he revealed the Quran to the prophet Muhammed and he should judge with what has been revieled to him and that the Quran had a criterion over the old scriptures. So the context is talking about the orginal gospel to the people at the time of Jesus

    If you would have read the context you would have known !!!

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ;Burninglight

    Those who follow the messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, whom they will find described in the Torah and the Gospel [Injil] (which are) with them. S. 7:157 Pickthall

    [Say (O Muhammad SAW)] "Shall I seek a judge other than Allah while it is He Who has sent down unto you the Book (The Qur'an), explained in detail." Those unto whom We gave the Scripture [the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel)] know that it is revealed from your Lord in truth. So be not you of those who doubt. S. 6:114 Al-Hilali & Khan This verse here proves to you that I didn't just make things up: The torah and gospel were sent to us and Allah tells (O Muhammad) this and he says nothing about it being corrupted. We still have the same torah and gospel Allah said he sent to us and your prophet was a witness to what you now say was corrupted.
    LOL you think that we muslims call the original manuscripts by names other than torah and gospel!!!!! That proves you are completely oblivious

    Again verses are talking about the Origianl Torah and Gospel which were revealed to Moses and Jesus which has been altered many times till what we have now!!!

    A simple 5 year old muslim would know this but the church tradition holds its grasp on your mind and understanding


    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ;Burninglight
    To me this verses makes clear that the Injil is the book of the Christians (the people of the Book) (ME), the book that is with me and which we Christians believe in. The Qur'an even tells us Christians to fully obey the Torah and the Injil that they had at the time your prophet was living. Can you answer to that?
    Already did , or were you just sleeping and skimming through??

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ;Burninglight

    I see a discrepancy: When we look at the New Testament our Scriptures, we see that it nowhere makes the claim that it is a book that was "given to Jesus".
    HAHAHA I wonder why !!! maybe if you read the context of the verse

    PS: Now you are asking the right question

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ;Burninglight

    Now please pay attention to this:
    Tell that to yourself

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ;Burninglight

    the Injil can either be a book given to Jesus, or it can be the book that the Christians have as their Scriptures, but it cannot be both.
    You are totaly wright we say the book given to Jesus

    and you have your current scripture meaning we are the followers of Jesus

    You probably the follower of his enemy Satan and Paul

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ;Burninglight

    Your prophet Muhammad apparently assumed that the Scripture of the Christians (and Jews) would be very similar to the Qur'an
    Your personal opinions and claims without proof have no shread of validity or importance in a debate

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ;Burninglight

    , the book which he thought he received from Allah. However, he was, IMHO, clearly #### on the matter as you are. As I have mentioned many times to you, the essential nature of the Qur'an and the Bible are very different, but you insist on judging it the way you do the Quran.

    #####

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ;Burninglight

    IOW, a book "given to Jesus" in the same way as Muhammad claims to have received the Qur'an does not exist. I have never claimed that such a book existed at any time nor do my Christians brothers and sisters. This claim of S. 5:46 is merely a wrong idea that sprang from the mind of your prophet.
    LOL apparantly you also lack some research about your own bible , Do you know what is Gospel Q ??? I think the answer is No you don't

    LOL who is ignorant now Burningwithignorance LOL that is an appropriate name for you from now on


    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ;Burninglight

    Had the author of the Qur'an made only statements like those found in S. 5:46 and 19:30, it might have been an option for Muslims to claim that the Injil of Jesus was simply lost. Jesus received such a book but, somehow, it disappeared. Muslims could have said that the NT clearly is something very different from the Injil as defined by the Qur'an, and could have concluded that therefore they do not believe in the Christian New Testament since the Qur'an does not endorse it
    LOL Burningignorance the NT is not the injil . Injiln انجيل in arabic means Gospel , thats why arab christians say injil of Mark, Matthew , Luke and John

    Congradulations who have hit the world record of Ignorance!!!


    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ;Burninglight
    , but instead the Quran imperfectly borrows the virgin birth story of Jesus from the Injil and denies the reason for his virgin birth instead of confirming it like Allah TOLD HIS MESSENGER IT WAS SUPPOSED TO DO. You are stuck with a mess here.
    Already answered that coward in my last response but you are trully Burningignorant

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ;Burninglight

    The Qur'an identifies the Injil as the Scripture of the Christians, right?
    WRONG , LOL it is what has been reviled to Jesus. Read the verse correctly

    oh wait!!!!! I forgot you can't read right you are a follower of the foolish Paul

    which is why Islam makes more sense , actually sorry the term is Islam has sense but christianity unfortunatily has no sense in it

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ;Burninglight
    Islam's prophet projected his own ideas of receiving revelation of a book (the Qur'an) on Jesus and simply assumed that the book of Jesus that was and is still held sacred by his followers and us on the forum here must also have been a book given to Jesus (like the sacred book of the Muslims is the book given to your messenger). However, he was wrong about this, and you follow this error. This mistake exposes the Qur'an you follow, and that is why Christianity makes more sense than Islam. IMHO, the Qur'an is not divine revelation but a collection of mistaken assumptions by its author. When you point your finger at the Bible you have four pointing back at you.
    LOL All this argument is false since you are basing it on the foolish conclusion of yours (no surprise there) that we say that the injil is the NT and current christian scripture , LOL as your foolish teacher you have commited the misunderstanding error

    Lets simplify it for you :

    Ingil = Original gospel revealed to Jesus

    I don't think you get it , this is the ignorant presenting itself within Paul's words:

    Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

    1 corinthians 11: 1

    yet he call him a mystery :

    And pray for us, too, that God may open a door for our message, so that we may proclaim the mystery of Christ, for which I am in chains.

    Colossians 4:3

    And to prove the ignorance of you again as Paul is and always was

    Here is what I actually asked :

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ; محمد سني 1989
    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ; محمد سني 1989
    Where in the Quran did God say that the torah and gospel as light and guidance
    to the prophet !!!!!!!!

    To the prophet , to the prophet, not to us

    as you claimed where ????

    This brings me up to ask you another question : Are such variations from different writters indpired by God

    Where are the answers to my questions ????


    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ;Burninglight



    You keep screaming the Bible is corrupted. Many Muslim do this so don't feel singled out. When the Qur'an contradicts the Bible, Muslims shout, "but the Bible is corrupted", as if that is the answer and solution to every such problem. This is the way you deal in debate
    For weeks now I wanted an answer concerning the ending of Mark which you have not answered
    So when we say it is corrupted , christians use such falasies to run away from confronting the truth about their bible

    We do not care about the bible we do not recognize it as a ligitemate scripture. So we do not need to actually shout out when contradiction exists . Yet we keep hearing the same phrase again and again by ignorant christians like yourself

    IT DOES NOT HURT THE CENTRAL THEME

    LOL actually news ***** It does

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ;Burninglight

    . The Bible is corrupted it has variants that change the central gospel message, but it doesn't and you have not been able to prove how it has. You have been pawned and can't admit it. Why? Is it pride?
    LOL , You have been smashed , cornered and debunked like any regular ignorant follower of Paul

    Or else tell me how have you not still answered the corruption about the ressurection of Jesus in Mark !!!

    Nothing you did not answer and you avoided it for weeks , so face the mirror and repeat your statement


    But thank you for your confession

    [QUOTE=;Burninglight]
    Now let say why crying corruption won't work and kill this thing once and for all.

    As I mentioned many times, the Qur'an never claims that the Injil is corrupted.

    [QUOTE=;Burninglight]

    LOL as usual Wrong statement which I Have proved you wrong in response 74

    and which you admitted in response 76 when you say

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ;Burninglight

    All the verses you quoted from the Quran are accusatory toward people of the Scripture
    Of course you pathetic attampt was to ignore the verses afterwards and then after a couple of responses bring the subject up

    pathetic strategy which shows the weakness of its user

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ;Burninglight
    That is an inference you make. There are certain accusations against the Jews, but no charge that the Christians corrupted their Scripture. What the Qur'an says about the Bible, lets investigates this matter closely and it shows that the Qur'an does not support the Muslim claim of NT Bible corruption; in fact, the Quran borrowed from it as I mentioned above. Why would it borrow from a corrupted book. LOL.
    And [mention, O Muhammad], when Allah took a covenant from those who were given the Scripture, [saying], "You must make it clear to the people and not conceal it." But they threw it away behind their backs and exchanged it for a small price. And wretched is that which they purchased.
    Quran 3: 187


    So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.
    Quran 2: 79

    Ibn `Abbas said, "O Muslims? How do you ask the people of the Scriptures, though your Book (i.e. the Qur'an) which was revealed to His Prophet is the most recent information from Allah and you recite it, the Book that has not been distorted? Allah has revealed to you that
    the people of the scriptures have changed with their own hands
    what was revealed to them and they have said (as regards their changed Scriptures): This is from Allah, in order to get some worldly benefit thereby." Ibn `Abbas added: "Isn't the knowledge revealed to you sufficient to prevent you from asking them? By Allah I have never seen any one of them asking (Muslims) about what has been revealed to you."


    Saheeh Bukhary
    Vol. 3, Book 48, Hadith 850

    The verses speek for itself but ignorance is bliss

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ;Burninglight
    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ;Burninglight

    Finally, even if there had been more variants then we know of (what you call corruption) of certain passages, these small changes and nonsense errors resulting in certain shifts of meaning don't effect the central gospel message, but you say it does, How?
    Thank you for your second confession

    Already gave you an example of a contradiction in the ressurection account between Mark and Matthew

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ;Burninglight
    The Qur'an was "sent down" from Allah to Muhammad supposedly. It was (supposedly) not written by your prophet, but given to him by Allah through Gabriel.
    Wrong again as usual , some were by Gabriel and some directly from God

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ;Burninglight
    OTOH, the Hadith are memories of the companions and followers of Muhammad, formulated and written up by Muslims long after the death of Muhammad. They are their recollection of what Muhammad said and did. Some of these memories are rejected by Muslims but some don't such as the satanic verses and many other such things that help us see why Christianity makes more sense than Islam.
    THe bases of rejection comes from studying the chain of oral transmission . The fact that christians would nitpick from the hadeeths and choose narrations which are nonauthentic describes and completely embodies the ignorance of Paul who was a satanic worshipor :

    Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don’t believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don’t understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.

    2 Corinthians 4:4

    or maybe it is Aron peace be upon him when the wroters of the bible accused him of making the golden calf and worshipping it

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ;Burninglight

    Would it be possible for anyone to change the Qur'an (the book given to Muhammad) into a collection of hadiths without the Muslim community realizing that their scripture had changed into something entirely different?

    Without doubt, you will say "NO." But if it is impossible for the Muslim book and community, why would you or any Muslim think that this would have been possible in the Christian community? Your thinking is not equal if you didn't think of this. Originally, the Christians had a "book given to Jesus" but one day they woke up and their scripture had turned into a collection of writings by followers of Jesus and nobody realized the change, and nobody protested against it?
    Actually if you would have read a shread of evidence on the history of the collection of the bible you would have known that the answer was yes people protested . The book of revelations was not adopted by many churches till the late 4th century as one example

    It is your complete ignorance in history, facts, bible , Quran which is preasented in most christians today

    This is one just one of the many examples why christianity actually has no sense in it

    And Islam is superior

    Thanks for the confessions by the way
    Last edited by *اسلامي عزي*; 27-08-2014 at 02:26 PM. Reason: حذف سفالة النصراني . جزاكم الله خيرا اخي الحبيب
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

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    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ;Burninglight

    , the book which he thought he received from Allah.
    However, he was, IMHO, clearly####on the matter as you ar
    e. As I have mentioned many times to you, the essential nature of the Qur'an and the Bible are very different, but you insist on judging it the way you do the Quran



    I hope the mediator brother اسلامي عزي takes an action to this insult to all muslims

    I never spoke of Paul negatively until he said something like this , I thought at least he had the decency to respect his hosts , for we do and thats why I did not insult Paul ( meaning show his true nature as an ignorant foolish liar by his own confession) until he insulted the prophet , for we as muslims were ordered to respect our hosts




    Last edited by *اسلامي عزي*; 27-08-2014 at 02:22 PM. Reason: حذف سفالة النصراني .جزاكم الله خيرا
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

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    Quote Originally Posted by محمد سني 1989 View Post
    I hope the mediator brother اسلامي عزي takes an action to this insult to all muslims

    I never spoke of Paul negatively until he said something like this , I thought at least he had the decency to respect his hosts , for we do and thats why I did not insult Paul ( meaning show his true nature as an ignorant foolish liar by his own confession) until he insulted the prophet , for we as muslims were ordered to respect our hosts


    [/RIGHT]
    I hope the mediator has the honesty to see the shameful and insulting behaviour of you towards a guest member. I have never read such a childish display of rudeness in all my time on this forum. Shame on you, that you think you represent the faith of Islam.... For sure it must be a pain to muslims reading your tirade of personal abuse. Are we not adults?

    Sad.. Very sad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pandora View Post
    I hope the mediator has the honesty to see the shameful and insulting behaviour of you towards a guest member. I have never read such a childish display of rudeness in all my time on this forum. Shame on you, that you think you represent the faith of Islam.... For sure it must be a pain to muslims reading your tirade of personal abuse. Are we not adults?

    Sad.. Very sad.

    No shame on you for defending such foul mouth christians who have an IQ less of a 4 year old child and a behaviour of a child.

    This is a desaster to christianity

    I am still waiting for the mediator's response to the insult which Burninignorant made to the prophet
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

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    Quote Originally Posted by محمد سني 1989 View Post
    I hope the mediator brother اسلامي عزي takes an action to this insult to all muslims

    I never spoke of Paul negatively until he said something like this , I thought at least he had the decency to respect his hosts , for we do and thats why I did not insult Paul ( meaning show his true nature as an ignorant foolish liar by his own confession) until he insulted the prophet , for we as muslims were ordered to respect our hosts




    [/RIGHT]
    All ### were ignorant on some things; they weren't God knowing all things. If you take insult or get offended at that comment of mine, it tells me you are doing it out of ignorance or you are a prophet worshipper or both. You need to look up the word ignorant so you can know what it actually means. There is a cure for ignorance, friend, as I have told you, but not for willful ignorance. Your statement here was very ignorant! Saying Islam's prophet didn't know something is not insulting your prophet. FYI, ignorant means not knowing!!! grow up
    Peace
    Last edited by *اسلامي عزي*; 27-08-2014 at 02:30 PM. Reason: deleting insults

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    Quote Originally Posted by محمد سني 1989 View Post
    No shame on you for defending such foul mouth christians who have an IQ less of a 4 year old child and a behaviour of a child.
    Who is the Christian with the foul mouth? What did he say that was foul, and did you mean to say who has an IQ less than a 4 year old...? or "who have an IQ less of a 4 year old." LOL, speaking of IQ, don't you have editing ability on the forum that we Christians don't? I suggest you use it, and stop throwing rocks when you live in a glass house.

    Finally, no one intentionally insulted Islam's messenger. Maybe, I should have use a different word than ignorant, because of your ridiculous sensibilities such as he did not know that the gospel wasn't given to Jesus instead of using the word ignorant of it which means the same thing. He didn't know how to read and write right? Now if I say a person is ignorant, because he hasn't had an education, that doesn't mean he is stupid. I take it that English is not your first language; so I understand, but you should understand, it is you who has chosen to take up an offense when no insult was intended. LOL, you told me to look up the word corruption. I know what that means English is my mother tongue; you should look up the word ignorant so you don't have to be ignorant of its definition anymore. And stop making trouble where there isn't any.
    peace

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    This is one just one of the many examples why christianity actually has no sense in it

    And Islam is superior

    Thanks for the confessions by the way
    The gospel is part of the NT. The point is there is no evidence that the gospel you attack was accused of corruption in the Quran; This could be why it imperfectly borrowed the virgin birth story from it. As for your statement that Islam is superior, you are entitled to your opinion. Do you feel it is superior for borrowing from our gospel that was never given to Jesus as stated in the Quran. Maybe you should think and pray on it before you come up with knee jerk responses of rudeness. On the other hand, I really don't see the point discussing any further with you. Your mind is obviously made up, and you don't want to be confused with the facts.

    May God have mercy on your soul

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burninglight View Post
    All prophets were ignorant on some things; they weren't God knowing all things. If you take insult or get offended at that comment of mine, it tells me you are doing it out of ignorance or you are a prophet worshipper or both. You need to look up the word ignorant so you can know what it actually means. There is a cure for ignorance, friend, as I have told you, but not for willful ignorance. Your statement here was very ignorant! Saying Islam's prophet didn't know something is not insulting your prophet. FYI, ignorant means not knowing!!! grow up
    Peace
    This twisting and turning won't help you , evrybody here understood what you meant . If you wanted to say did not know you would have said it rather you said ignorant , more importantly it was compaired with me so your words show that you actually meant an insult

    so wake up
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

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Which makes more sense Islam or Christianity

Which makes more sense Islam or Christianity