First : That is my point , you say it is meaning , yet you do not know most of what the bible means , thats what you said !!!! So it does not have any meaning when christians come up and say I saw the light , I am born again !!! They still know the same amount of knowledge as they did before . Love is feeling just as repulsiveness , hate , joyfull and satisfaction , they are feelings nothing more man.
Originally Posted by Burninglight
Second: As for what you said here :
I never said the passage says that explicitly, but we can infer that from Biblical hermeneutics and Biblical scholars concur. It is not my private interpretation as you say. It is understood by the congregation of churches in general. You are the one coming up with private interpretation that Jesus shouting out His last words means failure and a discrepancy in the central gospel message. You are seeing this all on your own. We don't see what you talking about as being a point here, because it isn't.
You can see that both statements in red are contradictory . If it was my private interpritation then why are you saying that the passage indirectly says what you are saying????
More importantly the context of the passage does not really serve such obscure interpritation , an interpritation that does not actually have meaning
I mean this is your personal interpritation of the passage when you come and say something like this :
Yes, God is talking to Israel, but Jesus is the culmination of all that happens to Israel for he was sent to them!What does this mean !!!! This is not an answer !!! The passage never said culmination , Do you even know what the word culmination is ???? Or are you just saying stuff that does not mean anything in an attempt to answer !!!!
Here you go :
"Amid the faintness, or the confusion of mind, felt at the approach of death, he experiences his abandonment by God; and yet his soul rests firmly on, and his wilt is fully subject to, God, while he is thus tasting death forevery man through God's grace .... He held firmly to God and retained the Divinity of his life, at the time when in his unity with mankind, and in his human feeling, the feeling of abandonment by God amazed him" (Lange). The verb "forsaken" is not in the perfect tense, as translated in the Authorized Version, but in the aorist; and it implies that during the three hours of darkness Christ had been in silence enduring this utter desolation, which had now come to its climax. The Man Christ Jesus asked whyhe was thus deserted; his human heart would fain comprehend this phase of the propitiatory sufferings which he was undergoing. No answer came from the darkened heaven; but the cry was heard; the unspeakable sacrifice, a sacrifice necessary according to the Almighty's purpose, was accepted, and with his own blood he obtained eternal redemption for man.
Source : pulpit commentary
So the church interpritation actually says what I say yet they try to twist and bend in order to explain this !!!!
Third: let me again state what I said about a person's last words:
no body would in their right mind say giberish for their last words rather they would say what they feltThis is what I said so nobody with healthy mind would say giberish in their last words
Then you come and say this :
These are things that will make no sense to the unregenerated mind, heart and soul. Jesus said, "You must be born again..." That is why the Bible states that the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness, but unto us that are saved, it is the power of God!!!
Well my friend your twisted logic which contradicts common sense , really does not serve your argument. You claim that if you are born again you will know the answers yet I see that you have no answers, in fact my debating non christians you actually have discovered things about your bible which you never imagined were true .
Plus this argument is laughable in another way , I could tell you to understand Islam you have to convert, or a Jew could say the samething , LOL this is no answer my friend , it just show your inability to answer
Fourth : You have no idea about your faith , because christianity had a long history of attacking the jews , in fact if you read the history of the first three to six centuries of christianity you would know. Today christianity attacks Islam and tries to defame it but the fact of the matter is that this tactic of them does not work , Islam is still spreading by rapid numbers in areas like france , germany and other areas.
The fact that you claim that going on the attack itself is not neccesary contradicts the bible in the OT and NT. Just look at what Jesus peace be upon him did when he saw the Jews defaming the temple , did he go on the attack or did he sit down and minded his own business ???
plus and more importantly all these statement from you and you still did not answer my argument :
If the twelve men wrote what happened years later and because that they started to forget then that my friend proves that :As usual you used the whole ignore and change the topic to avoid answering this fact
1. Most of what they wrote are unreliable
2. They were not guided by God because forgetting things related to God's scripture before documenting it means that God did not support their writing nor were they guided by the holy ghost when writting