the Bible VS the holy Qura'n

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the Bible VS the holy Qura'n

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  1. #1
    *اسلامي عزي*'s Avatar
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    Default the Bible VS the holy Qura'n










    In the name of Allah



    We know that the Prophet Yusuf (joseph) the hebrew patriarch and the son of the Prophet Jacob lived in the ancient Egypt during the reign of the Hyksos - the Middle Kingdom -

    The story of the Prophet Yusuf is mentioned in both OT and the holy Qura'n .
    to refer to Egypt 's ruler during the Hyksos's reign :

    1 - the holy Qura'n used the term-----> king

    And the king said, "Bring him to me." But when the messenger came to him, [Joseph] said, "Return to your master and ask him what is the case of the women who cut their hands. Indeed, my Lord is Knowing of their plan."

    the holy Qura'n 12 : 50

    Conversely the bible used the term -----> pharaoh

    And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, I have dreamed a dream, and there is none that can interpret it: and I have heard say of thee, that thou canst understand a dream to interpret it.

    Genesis 41 : 14

    NOTE :

    During the reign of the Hyksos The ruler of Egypt takes the title of king.
    The title of Pharaoh started being used for the king during the New kingdom !




    https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/t...s/Pharaoh.html





    http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/pharaohs.htm


    The question now :

    the bible is wrong ????






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    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي



    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

    أنقر(ي) فضلا أدناه :


    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي



    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي



    اللهمّ اهدنا و اهد بنا ،

    اللهمّ لا سهل إلا ما جعلته سهلاً، وأنت تجعل الحزن إذا شئت يارب سهلاً، اللهمّ سهّل علينا أمورنا واجعل أعمالنا خالصة لوجهك الكريم نلقاك بها يارب يوم
    الدين.

    آمين... آمين... آمين.



    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي



  2. #2
    pandora's Avatar
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    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by *اسلامي عزي* View Post









    In the name of Allah



    We know that the Prophet Yusuf (joseph) the hebrew patriarch and the son of the Prophet Jacob lived in the ancient Egypt during the reign of the Hyksos - the Middle Kingdom -

    The story of the Prophet Yusuf is mentioned in both OT and the holy Qura'n .
    to refer to Egypt 's ruler during the Hyksos's reign :

    1 - the holy Qura'n used the term-----> king

    And the king said, "Bring him to me." But when the messenger came to him, [Joseph] said, "Return to your master and ask him what is the case of the women who cut their hands. Indeed, my Lord is Knowing of their plan."

    the holy Qura'n 12 : 50

    Conversely the bible used the term -----> pharaoh

    And Pharaoh said unto Joseph, I have dreamed a dream, and there is none that can interpret it: and I have heard say of thee, that thou canst understand a dream to interpret it.

    Genesis 41 : 14

    NOTE :

    During the reign of the Hyksos The ruler of Egypt takes the title of king.
    The title of Pharaoh started being used for the king during the New kingdom !




    https://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/t...s/Pharaoh.html





    http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/pharaohs.htm


    The question now :

    the bible is wrong ????






    No.. The Bible is not wrong. :) The Bible uses the distinctly Egyptian term Pharaoh to refer to the King of Egypt. The word Pharaoh... As you can see from the clip from the article you use refers to "Great House" orginally refered to the government...or even the royal palace. Since the Pharaoh was the absolute ruler of Egypt, the government and king were one and the same. Where's your problem??? Pharaoh is also used in the Quran is it not? There's the Pharaohs wife said to be among the best of women.. Is this not so? Although why the pharaohs wife should be considered this way I do not know. Why is she not called Queen in the Quran?

    Honestly, you are splitting hairs here..

    Peace.

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    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by *اسلامي عزي* View Post

    The question now :

    the bible is wrong ????
    Pharaoh VS Nesu? How does this effect the central message of the gospel that Christians follow?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Burninglight View Post
    Pharaoh VS Nesu? How does this effect the central message of the gospel that Christians follow?
    It doesn't.. But grasping at straws is sometimes the the only way left to go. I think it is difficult for muslims to see the Bible how we see it. They look at the Bible and apply the same criteria they would use for measuring the Quran. We know that cannot work on any meaningful level and so lends itself to misunderstandings.

    Blessings to you BL.

  5. #5
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    Quote
    The Bible uses the distinctly Egyptian term Pharaoh to refer to the King of Egypt. The word Pharaoh... As you can see from the clip from the article you use refers to "Great House" orginally refered to the government...or even the royal palace. Since the Pharaoh was the absolute ruler of Egypt, the government and king were one and the same. Where's your problem???
    as i mentioned the Hyksos who lived during the MK (the Middle Kingdom) does not use the term pharaoh as a title to refer to the Egyptian ruler .
    here is the problelm ..!



    please re-read carefully this :

    The title of Pharaoh started being used for the king during the New Kingdom, specifically during the middle of the eighteenth dynasty.


    Quote
    Pharaoh is also used in the Quran
    yes .

    And Pharaoh said, "Let me kill Moses and let him call upon his Lord.
    Indeed, I fear that he will change your religion or that he will
    cause corruption in the land."


    the holy Qura'n 40 : 26

    as you know the EXODUS take place in the NK (the New Kingdom)

    Quote
    The title of Pharaoh started being used for the king during the New Kingdom, specifically during the middle of the eighteenth dynasty.
    where is the problem ?????

    Quote
    Why is she not called Queen in the Quran?
    the term "the Pharaoh 's wife" will automatically refer to the Queen .
    the holy Qura'n does not care to details because he is not a book of history or geography !
    maybe you will ask me why the holy Qura'n does not mention the shoe size of the pharaho's wife !!!!???

    .


    PEACE
    Last edited by *اسلامي عزي*; 18-07-2014 at 02:47 PM.



    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي



    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

    أنقر(ي) فضلا أدناه :


    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي



    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي



    اللهمّ اهدنا و اهد بنا ،

    اللهمّ لا سهل إلا ما جعلته سهلاً، وأنت تجعل الحزن إذا شئت يارب سهلاً، اللهمّ سهّل علينا أمورنا واجعل أعمالنا خالصة لوجهك الكريم نلقاك بها يارب يوم
    الدين.

    آمين... آمين... آمين.



    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي



  6. #6
    pandora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by *اسلامي عزي* View Post
    as i mentioned the Hyksos who lived during the MK (the Middle Kingdom) does not use the term pharaoh as a title to refer to the Egyptian ruler .
    here is the problelm ..!



    please re-read carefully this :

    The title of Pharaoh started being used for the king during the New Kingdom, specifically during the middle of the eighteenth dynasty.
    And.. I stated it is not a problem for Christians, reason being as our salvation does not depend on the date of the exodus.

    Quote
    yes .
    Quote

    And Pharaoh said, "Let me kill Moses and let him call upon his Lord.
    Indeed, I fear that he will change your religion or that he will
    cause corruption in the land."


    the holy Qura'n 40 : 26

    as you know the EXODUS take place in the NK (the New Kingdom)
    Here is a link which has some good information on the dating of the exodus. Personally, I would go with the Bible date... But either way a few hundred years either way won't make any difference to mankind's redemption.. God acts outside our time frame.

    http://www.evidenceunseen.com/date-of-the-exodus/
    [/QUOTE]


    the term "the Pharaoh 's wife" will automatically refer to the Queen .
    the holy Qura'n does not care to details because he is not a book of history or geography !
    maybe you will ask me why the holy Qura'n does not mention the shoe size of the pharaho's wife !!!!???

    PEACE[/QUOTE]

    So it's ok to make assumptions in regards to the Quran but not make similar assumptions with the Bible? Hmmm... I see. You are one of the few muslims I have heard say the Quran is not a book of history or geography... Most muslims constantly lay claims to historical and geographical facts as pointing to further proof of its divine nature. It's actually refreshing to hear a Muslim imply it's not that important. Although I disagree to some extent in regards to the importance of detail...it's the detail that give the clues as to the bigger picture.. The bigger and clearer the picture the greater degree of accuracy can be determined from proof. The Bible has a wealth of both historical and geographical proof that can be confirmed as accurate by today's archeological discoveries. This is of interest to me as a Christian but probably not so to yourself.. :)

    In regards to the Pharaohs wife, Queen or whatever you would like to call her, and her footwear. She favoured sandals and her feet were size 36... That's European sizing.. ...... ...... That's a joke.. I don't really know what size shoes she had, although I'm sure someone could make a fairly accurate estimate by using archeological evidence to hand.

    Peace.

  7. #7
    Burninglight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pandora View Post
    It doesn't.. But grasping at straws is sometimes the the only way left to go. I think it is difficult for muslims to see the Bible how we see it. They look at the Bible and apply the same criteria they would use for measuring the Quran. We know that cannot work on any meaningful level and so lends itself to misunderstandings.

    Blessings to you BL.
    It doesn't and you are correct. The Bible cannot be compared to the way one sees the Quran. If you judge it based on the way the Quran was supposedly received the Bible would fail every time, but not even the Quran keeps up with the way it was supposed to have been received and Muslims are constantly using semantics, conjecture and speculation along with cutting down previous Scripture to support it.
    Blessings to you Pandora

  8. #8
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    You're terribly missing the point hear honestly .

    Quote
    You are one of the few muslims I have heard say the Quran is not a book of history or geography... Most muslims constantly lay claims to historical and geographical facts as pointing to further proof of its divine nature.
    When Quran states a historical fact accurately and it is impossible for anyone at the time to know , it's further evidence of its divine source . Otherwise , how can a person know all these facts written in hyrogliphic which he couldn't even put his hands on in the first place ?

    When we say Quran is not a history book , we mean it isn't concerned with details to the digree of mentioning what someone ate on lunch or dinner ! It doesn't mention everything but rather what holds a purpose to be mentioned . And what on Earth is the problem if Quran says "Pharoh's wife" ?

    The point of this thread was that historical facts point that the title "Pharoh" isn't used during the times of prophet Yusuf but rather sometime before the birth of prophet Moses peace upon them both . Quran states that accurately . So either the Bible is wrong when it says Pharoh in an inaccurate period of time , or in case we accept the Bible using such a term , Quran is more accurate .

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    @ Nosayr Allah

    may Allah bless you brother .

    Quote
    And.. I stated it is not a problem for Christians, reason being as our salvation does not depend on the date of the exodus
    I do not talk about the date of the Exodus .
    the bible made a big mistake and you say :" it is not a problem for Christians " !
    how do you explain the fact : YAHWEH does not know that the term " pharaoh " was not used as a title to refer to the Egyptian ruler during the MK ?????




    Quote
    I see. You are one of the few muslims I have heard say the Quran is not a book of history or geography... Most muslims constantly lay claims to historical and geographical facts as pointing to further proof of its divine nature.
    Even if the holy Qura'n contain many geographical, historical and scientific miracle he is not specialized in history or geography nor he is a book of salutations !

    Quote
    Why is she not called Queen in the Quran?
    Why here the pharaoh's first born is not called "prince" ????

    Exodus 11 : 5
    And all the firstborn in the land of Egypt shall die, from
    the first born of Pharaoh that sitteth upon his throne, even unto the firstborn of the maidservant that is behind the mill; and all the firstborn of beasts.





    peace to you .




    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي



    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

    أنقر(ي) فضلا أدناه :


    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي



    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي



    اللهمّ اهدنا و اهد بنا ،

    اللهمّ لا سهل إلا ما جعلته سهلاً، وأنت تجعل الحزن إذا شئت يارب سهلاً، اللهمّ سهّل علينا أمورنا واجعل أعمالنا خالصة لوجهك الكريم نلقاك بها يارب يوم
    الدين.

    آمين... آمين... آمين.



    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي



  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by نصير الدين View Post
    You're terribly missing the point hear honestly .
    I think I see the point now... Lol.. I will answer in my next post..

    Quote
    When Quran states a historical fact accurately and it is impossible for anyone at the time to know , it's further evidence of its divine source . Otherwise , how can a person know all these facts written in hyrogliphic which he couldn't even put his hands on in the first place ?
    I don't buy that.. You cannot say prophet Mohammed never came into contact with materials written or otherwise and had knowledge of them. You cannot prove he did not so you can't rule out the possibility. I'm not saying he did or did not.. I'm just saying the possibility exists that information could have come his way. Word of mouth was like the newspapers of the day..or internet ;) information highway. The gospels were spread throughout that part of the world hundreds of years before prophet Mohammed was born.

    Quote
    When we say Quran is not a history book , we mean it isn't concerned with details to the digree of mentioning what someone ate on lunch or dinner ! It doesn't mention everything but rather what holds a purpose to be mentioned . And what on Earth is the problem if Quran says "Pharoh's wife" ?
    I personally find the Quran does not have much in the way of historical context, which sometimes makes it difficult to date things. Maybe you do not place much emphasis on that kind of thing and are happy with just a nominal mention on some facts. Which is a tiny bit ironic that you expect a different standard entirely when disseminating the Bible.. Demanding proof to the enth degree. Even though the Bible... Certainly the Old Testament is considerably older by a 1000+ years than the Quran....There is still proof to be had. Not that you would believe it.. I guess. ;)

    absolutely nothing wrong with the term "Pharaoh's wife"... On the same basis as what is wrong with the title "Pharaoh" being used in the Bible...

    Quote
    The point of this thread was that historical facts point that the title "Pharoh" isn't used during the times of prophet Yusuf but rather sometime before the birth of prophet Moses peace upon them both . Quran states that accurately . So either the Bible is wrong when it says Pharoh in an inaccurate period of time , or in case we accept the Bible using such a term , Quran is more accurate .
    I will get to this.. Now I see where your problem lies.. :) however... You can't really claim because the Quran is more accurate in the term used as evidence that the Bible used the same term. The problem is how you are comparing the books.

    Peace.

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the Bible VS the holy Qura'n

the Bible VS the holy Qura'n