the Bible VS the holy Qura'n

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the Bible VS the holy Qura'n

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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by محمد سني 1989 View Post
    LOL

    I already answered your question in this thread . It is not my responsibility that you can't keep up or don't remember

    This is a funny way of running away from the question :

    is this statement to you true or not :

    Believe in the Trinity of God. Three
    persons



    in one God: Father, Son and Holy Spirit

    ?????

    It is a simple yes , no or I do not know answer

    try to have the courage to answer
    The Father, Son & Holy SPIRIT r a mystery that I cannot explain. God personally showed me He is a trinity, and I don't know how that is possible, but I also don't know how God can say "Be" and something is that was not. Perhaps if I knew the answer to that, I would be able answer your question. The fact is you are asking questions, but answers are not what you seek. You are looking to bury me in foolish semantics, but you are burying yourself deeper in trouble with God and don't fully realize what your doing.
    If you can tell me how God always was without beginning or end; if you can tell me how God can know all things at the same time from everywhere in the universe; if you can tell me how God can be all powerful, and if you can tell me how God dwells in eternity where there is no time or how God created time, I will tell you the answer to the mystery of the trinity. If you cannot tell me the answer to these, HOLD YOUR PEACE about the trinity once and for all!!!
    Now, I tried to make a deal with you to pray and ask the God of Abraham to show you Who His oneness is in relationship to Christianity and Islam, but you never responded. I told you how and showed you my written prayer, but you didn't do the same. That is how I know answers and truth are not what you seek thus far; you are, therefore, a time waster, IMHO on this forum among the minority of Christians here. By the way, please note you didn't respond to half of my questions and comments on previous threads and posts which is twice as much as I haven't answered of yours; so, you are fooling no one except for yourself.

    Peace

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by pandora View Post
    Would it be possible you could get one of these two year olds to express their understanding of this oneness? Seeing as adult muslims have a hard time explaining it. Again... I'm not asking about what the Quran tells you it is... Worship one God, no partners and keep commandments. We can understand that as we also worship One God, who has no partners and keep His commandments. But.. Explain the concept of a unitary being and how you understand that this concept is superior to the concept of a triune being.

    It's not the belief in the trinity that we see as our salvation... But what Jesus taught about the way to our salvation. Which is basically believe that He is the way, the Truth and the Life... That's not A way... BUT the way.. Not A truth but THE truth and He is our way to Life eternal. It's that simple.

    Peace.
    The concept of unitary is superior to the concept of trinity for many reasons:

    1. Trinity is paganism , no matter what you say whether it is three in one god and the emphasis on one it is still called paganism because your concept is three in one person , those three in your theology are divine , meaning god like , doesn't john 1 state the word was divine!!!! so no matter what it is still paganism even if you emphasize that the three are one

    2. Trinity does not exist in the Old testament , no mention of it in any of the stories of the prophet. Why would god conceal the trinity idea for thousands and thousands of years till Jesus came !!!???

    3. Trinity does not exist in the New testament , there is no mention of it as if : the father , the son , the holy spirit are three in one go. No it does not exist . What christians are saying is that we have a lot of hints for it in the new testament !!!! Therefore Jesus even according to your gospels never preached it and neither did his deciples!!!

    4. Trinity in the idea that three are one god existed long before christianity in the roman , egyptian and hindu ancient pagan religion !!!.

    5. A fundimental and complex idea like trinity if existed in the first century AD would have definatly resulted in many debates and questions from other religions like Jews , it would have been the main topic of debate in that time and the topic of debate between early christians like Paul and others such as Jews but we do not see any evidence of that in the New testament , nothing!!!!! which concludes that a philisophical matter did not exist in the first century of christianity !!!

    For your last comment yes Jesus taught our salvation just like any other prophet of god , but as I stated in the third point Jesus never taught trinity , therefore he never preached it and believing in it would be against the teachings of Jesus since he never preached it !!!
    And yes it is important because you are believing a certain important theological belief about the nature of God which Jesus did not preach; something which according to christians is the fundimental belief about the relationship between God and Jesus

    peace
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burninglight View Post
    I wonder why 1989 didn't address my post #91.

    You are right, Jesus is the truth , the life and the way. Muslims try to say all prophets were the truth the life and the way for their time, but they never dared to say they are the truth. They showed truth and the way, but Jesus didn't say I show the way. How do they get out of Jesus' word? By saying the Bible is corrupted. Now, who could've have benefited from making all the corruptions they claim are in the Bible that clash with the Quran. There are sooooo many. How could that benefit anyone to come against the teaching of Islam that hadn't come around until the 7th century and who benefited and how. And tell me 1989 why would the apostles of Jesus risk their lives to preach a tale?

    Peace
    I did not see your 91 comment because it was responded to sister huria not me , however your answer is in my last answer to Pandora

    As for the rest of your questions , I did not get what you are asking me , can you please clarify what are you exactly asking me ?
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burninglight View Post
    The Father, Son & Holy SPIRIT r a mystery that I cannot explain. God personally showed me He is a trinity, and I don't know how that is possible, but I also don't know how God can say "Be" and something is that was not. Perhaps if I knew the answer to that, I would be able answer your question.
    Thank you for the answer

    the statemnet three persons in one is actually from a christian site and it is its core belief in protestant :
    http://www.diffen.com/difference/Catholic_vs_Protestant

    http://christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-t002.html

    in the second link it litteraly says this :


    The doctrine of the Trinity — that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are each equally and eternally the one true God

    God is a Tri-unity, with each Person of the Godhead equally and fully and eternally God.

    This statement is really really dangerous , because it states that the three persons are three equil gods in one God , it is simply paganism because it did acknowledged the existence of three , it doesn't matter whether it is three in one , because this is exactly what the hindus believe.

    However the idea of three equil in one is also not backed up by the bible because Jesus says :

    John 14:28 Jesus said "My Father (GOD) is greater than I"

    This would simply mean that there are not equil and there are herarchies within the trinity , ultimately this means that the trinity God is composed of elements that rank in their greatness!!!!

    From what Jesus said we know that the true message of Jesus was the worship of the one God which is the father :

    John 20:17 Jesus said "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' "

    your father too meaning God

    Mark 12:29 Jesus said "Here, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord.

    notice our god not your God , if Jesus was part of the trinity then he would say your God

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ;Burninglight

    Now, I tried to make a deal with you to pray and ask the God of Abraham to show you Who His oneness is in relationship to Christianity and Islam, but you never responded. I told you how and showed you my written prayer, but you didn't do the same. That is how I know answers and truth are not what you seek thus far; you are, therefore, a time waster, IMHO on this forum among the minority of Christians here. By the way, please note you didn't respond to half of my questions and comments on previous threads and posts which is twice as much as I haven't answered of yours; so, you are fooling no one except for yourself.

    Peace

    You accused me of bating you

    You refused to answer my question

    You disrespected me

    So why would I take what you say other than the answer to my question seriously !!! If you gave me enough respect I would have answered your agreement


    Therefore I pray that you find the truth or at least find the answers you seek and know what Jesus really preached to the God of Abraham the one true god not in three forms , just the one creator

    peace
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by محمد سني 1989 View Post
    The concept of unitary is superior to the concept of trinity for many reasons:

    1. Trinity is paganism , no matter what you say whether it is three in one god and the emphasis on one it is still called paganism because your concept is three in one person , those three in your theology are divine , meaning god like , doesn't john 1 state the word was divine!!!! so no matter what it is still paganism even if you emphasize that the three are one

    2. Trinity does not exist in the Old testament , no mention of it in any of the stories of the prophet. Why would god conceal the trinity idea for thousands and thousands of years till Jesus came !!!???

    3. Trinity does not exist in the New testament , there is no mention of it as if : the father , the son , the holy spirit are three in one go. No it does not exist . What christians are saying is that we have a lot of hints for it in the new testament !!!! Therefore Jesus even according to your gospels never preached it and neither did his deciples!!!

    4. Trinity in the idea that three are one god existed long before christianity in the roman , egyptian and hindu ancient pagan religion !!!.

    5. A fundimental and complex idea like trinity if existed in the first century AD would have definatly resulted in many debates and questions from other religions like Jews , it would have been the main topic of debate in that time and the topic of debate between early christians like Paul and others such as Jews but we do not see any evidence of that in the New testament , nothing!!!!! which concludes that a philisophical matter did not exist in the first century of christianity !!!

    For your last comment yes Jesus taught our salvation just like any other prophet of god , but as I stated in the third point Jesus never taught trinity , therefore he never preached it and believing in it would be against the teachings of Jesus since he never preached it !!!
    And yes it is important because you are believing a certain important theological belief about the nature of God which Jesus did not preach; something which according to christians is the fundimental belief about the relationship between God and Jesus

    peace
    Friend, you seem to have trouble focusing, which as you apparently recognise this trait in myself I am surprised you don't see it in yourself. My question was:

    **** Explain the concept of a unitary being and how you understand that this concept is superior to the concept of a triune being.****

    You have not answered or even attempted to answer.. Except express your opinion that it is superior for many reasons.. Then you digress as is your way and list a lot of opinions about the trinity...again.. How many times does one have to state that our salvation does not rely on the belief of trinity or your misconception about it? For sure this trinity issue is a thorn in your side that you cannot let go. I don't need you to repeat your opinions about the trinity.. You've done that countless times on various threads.. Many which have nothing to do with the trinity topic!!! If you can't explain why you feel a unitary concept of God is superior to a triune concept of God... Then maybe one of those two year olds Huria claims to know of could enlighten you, then you could pass it on.

    Or you can just say you don't know.. I can respect that. In fact that is an honest way and to be admired. I don't pretend to fully understand the nature of God, however I do believe the concept of a triune God gives a fuller understanding ... as far as we are able, according to how God chooses to reveal Himself to us.

    Peace unto you.

  6. #106
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    The doctrine of the Trinity — that God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are each equally and eternally the one true God

    God is a Tri-unity, with each Person of the Godhead equally and fully and eternally God.


    This statement is really really dangerous , because it states that the three persons are three equil gods in one God , it is simply paganism because it did acknowledged the existence of three , it doesn't matter whether it is three in one , because this is exactly what the hindus believe.
    Please read the text... It does not say THREE equal gods.. God is ONE... God is otherworldly and we cannot hope to understand what God is because it is not our time to know. We have yet to attain the spiritual righteousness that will grant us this understanding. As long as we are in a fallen state we fall short of Gods glory. I think you will have to pray for guidance on this matter, because it seems your mind and heart are closed tight to any possibilities other than what appeals to your human logic.

    Peace unto you.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burninglight View Post
    Yes, yes, that was a perfect reply. You were once asked are you my spokeswoman? You can speak for me anytime you want. Your implies are after my own heart on the matters in question on this forum thus far. I believe this is unity of Spirit. But unity of spirit is not enough without truth. Jesus makes all the difference; Truth is a person and many don't know that. Jesus is the truth (the only truth); He is the way; (the only way); He is the life; (the only life). Outside of Christ, there is only death. Jesus said, "You will die in your sin unless you believe I am He; no comes unto the father (God/Allah) except through me"
    What excuse can a Muslim have before Jesus on judgment day when we told them, and Jesus said it in the Scriptures, that He is the only way to God???

    Peace and blessing to you sister Pandora
    I do not know what excuses there can be. I feel you address the points clearly and concisely without.... Maybe my emotion.. But that's my person. I don't understand why some on this forum cannot understand your posts they are clear as brightest crystal to me.. But.. Then we share the same faith and love of The Lord.

    Gods blessings to you my brother in Christ.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by pandora View Post
    Friend, you seem to have trouble focusing, which as you apparently recognise this trait in myself I am surprised you don't see it in yourself. My question was:

    **** Explain the concept of a unitary being and how you understand that this concept is superior to the concept of a triune being.****

    You have not answered or even attempted to answer.. Except express your opinion that it is superior for many reasons.. Then you digress as is your way and list a lot of opinions about the trinity...again.. How many times does one have to state that our salvation does not rely on the belief of trinity or your misconception about it? For sure this trinity issue is a thorn in your side that you cannot let go. I don't need you to repeat your opinions about the trinity.. You've done that countless times on various threads.. Many which have nothing to do with the trinity topic!!! If you can't explain why you feel a unitary concept of God is superior to a triune concept of God... Then maybe one of those two year olds Huria claims to know of could enlighten you, then you could pass it on.

    Or you can just say you don't know.. I can respect that. In fact that is an honest way and to be admired. I don't pretend to fully understand the nature of God, however I do believe the concept of a triune God gives a fuller understanding ... as far as we are able, according to how God chooses to reveal Himself to us.

    Peace unto you.

    Here is what you asked and focus on what is emphasized in your statement :
    Explain the concept of a unitary being and how you understand that this concept is superior to the concept of a triune being.


    How I understand ok so I believe my points answer for it self why I see trinity is not superior to unitary= monotheism


    you also said "

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ; pandora

    How many times does one have to state that our salvation does not rely on the belief of trinity or your misconception about it?




    I already answered this in my last response :

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ; محمد سني 1989
    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by ; محمد سني 1989
    For your last comment yes Jesus taught our salvation just like any other prophet of god , but as I stated in the third point Jesus never taught trinity , therefore he never preached it and believing in it would be against the teachings of Jesus since he never preached it !!!
    And yes it is important because you are believing a certain important theological belief about the nature of God which Jesus did not preach; something which according to christians is the fundimental belief about the relationship between God and Jesus



    peace
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

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    Quote Originally Posted by pandora View Post
    Please read the text... It does not say THREE equal gods.. God is ONE... God is otherworldly and we cannot hope to understand what God is because it is not our time to know. We have yet to attain the spiritual righteousness that will grant us this understanding. As long as we are in a fallen state we fall short of Gods glory. I think you will have to pray for guidance on this matter, because it seems your mind and heart are closed tight to any possibilities other than what appeals to your human logic.

    Peace unto you.

    I will repeat the statement again but this time complete :

    T
    he doctrine of the
    Trinity
    — that
    God
    the
    Father
    , God the
    Son
    , and God the
    Holy Spirit
    are eachequally and eternally the one true God

    God is a Tri-unity, with each Person of the
    Godhead
    equally and fully and eternally God.

    each means each person of the trinity , each are equil and each are fully and eternally god , otherwise the phrase Godhead would not make any sense


    I would also like to add this :

    God is a trinityof persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Father is not the same person as the Son; the Son is not the same person as the Holy Spirit; and the Holy Spirit is not the same person as the Father. They are not three gods and not three beings. They are three distinct persons; yet, they are all the one God. Each has a will, can speak, can love, etc. These are demonstrations of personhood. They are in absolute perfect harmony consisting of one substance. They are coeternal, coequal, and copowerful. If any one of the three were removed, there would be no God
    http://carm.org/trinity

    So they are three different persons
    Three distinct beings
    Without one of them there would be no god!!!! another dangerous statement , because it means that the father is powerless without the son and the holy spirit contradicting what Jesus said :

    John 14:28 Jesus said "My Father (GOD) is greater than

    John 20:17 Jesus said "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' "

    As for not three gods , well the unknown writer of John disagrees:

    1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God

    importantly enough the actual greek manuscript reads was divine

    peace
    Last edited by محمد سني 1989; 25-08-2014 at 12:36 AM.
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

  10. #110
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    They keep telling us, our salvation doesn’t depend on the trinity, well if you don’t even understand who you are worshiping, how is it not linked?

    Well Tawheed is simple, we know who our God is, (Allah), but with your pagan trinity doctrine, you don't even know who you worshiping, people parry to the father alone, or Jesus alone but they never pray to the holy spirit alone, unless is combined with the other two, how they are equal ?

    Other sects in Christianity read the same bible, and don't believe in the trinity!!

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the Bible VS the holy Qura'n

the Bible VS the holy Qura'n