Thread: Can God Become A Man

Quote

I believe it means to make something false by adding to it or taking away from it. What is your definition of it?

the same as your definition .
here is the adding :




and here is the taking away :




if you want more example, I'll give you .

Quote

Pardon??? You don't have a dictionary to hand?

don 't worry i have a dozen !
i' just want to hear the definition of your mouth !
relax , please !

Quote

falsification - any evidence that helps to establish the falsity of something
falsification - a willful perversion of facts
falsification - the act of rendering something false as by fraudulent changes (of documents or measures etc.) or counterfeiting

here is a Christian web site who recognizes that the bible 's scribe changed the text intentionally !





https://bible.org/article/significan...testament-text

Quote

the problem is only yours

i' don't think so !
the evidences are in front of your eyes !

Quote

I have already said make no difference to the core message of the Bible

how did you think that the intentional changes can not make a difference ????



here is an example :

the Samaritan text (DEUT 27 :4 ) talk about a mount called Gerizim
also the Jesuit arabic bible 's translation (Approved by the major arabic christian web sites ) .
Conversely the Masoretic text and the major arabic bible 's translation talk about an other mount called Ebal.
please don ' t tell me that the places( Gerizim / Ebal ) are the same !

peace to you .

Quote

Originally Posted by Burninglight

Is there a point you are trying to make: IOW, why did you ask this question?

I think now you know why i ask you this question !



peace to you .

Quote

Originally Posted by *اسلامي عزي*

the same as your definition .
here is the adding :




and here is the taking away :




if you want more example, I'll give you .




don 't worry i have a dozen !
i' just want to hear the definition of your mouth !
relax , please !



here is a Christian web site who recognizes that the bible 's scribe changed the text intentionally !





https://bible.org/article/significan...testament-text




i' don't think so !
the evidences are in front of your eyes !






how did you think that the intentional changes can not make a difference ????



here is an example :

the Samaritan text (DEUT 27 :4 ) talk about a mount called Gerizim
also the Jesuit arabic bible 's translation (Approved by the major arabic christian web sites ) .
Conversely the Masoretic text and the major arabic bible 's translation talk about an other mount called Ebal.
please don ' t tell me that the places( Gerizim / Ebal ) are the same !

peace to you .

Best will in the world here, I'm trying to get your point..and you won't find any Christians who will claim the Bible is the direct word of God verbatim. On that basis we would expect to find textual errors by scribes and interpolations. The fact we have so many manuscripts to compare makes it clear that when these occur it's found out. Better people than yourself schooled in the Bible have made it their life's work to ensure that what we have is what God gave us by sorting through the wheat from the chaff.

More importantly do any of these examples you give change the Bibles core message of the fall of man, Gods plan for redemption and the fulfilment of that plan in The Lord Jesus Christ? NO.. They do not, and that is because Gods message cannot be changed. Words can change dependant on language used.. The message is unchangeable.

I guess you you as a Muslim puts greater emphasis on this kind of "evidence" as you have a vested interest in proving in whatever way possible the Bible cannot be trusted as truth. Because the only way the Quran can be true is if the Bible is false.. Seeing as the messages they bring are diametrically opposed to each other on many key points you are obliged to do what you do. However, the Bibles message has stood strong for over two thousand years and none have been able to break it. It will continue to stand long past the time we shall cease to be.. Then we shall know the truth of our conversations here today. :) that scenario holds no fear for me for I trust in The Lord my God and my saviour Jesus Christ and I know He will not fail me.

May God bless you.

Quote

Originally Posted by *اسلامي عزي*

I think now you know why i ask you this question !


peace to you .

For sure... But don't you think it's been answered numerous times already. ;)

ask a different question ... :) :)

peace to you and have a good day.

Quote

Words can change dependant on language used The message is unchangeable.

The question is :







Why we need to change the words of God ???



Answer me honestly ?!
If i' efface your name and i ' write an other one - Rachel for example - in your passport ,
this will make a difference or not ????
peace to you .

Quote

Originally Posted by *اسلامي عزي*

The question is :







Why we need to change the words of God ???



Answer me honestly ?!
If i' efface your name and i ' write an other one - Rachel for example - in your passport ,
this will make a difference or not ????
peace to you .

Lol... Depends it could make a difference if it didn't match my other travel documents ;) I'm not sure this analogy is the best to prove your point.

I hear it said that there are some words in the Arabic language that do not have an English equivalent.. This I have been told by muslims usually if I have misinterpreted something.. I know in my native tongue there are words that have no English equivalent.. Yet I have a Bible in English and my native tongue and the message is the same.... Even though the same word is not used it does not change the meaning.. To use a word that has the same inference does not change the message. That's because Gods Word in the Bible is meant for people of every tongue and it doesn't matter what language it's translated into the message remains the same.

Peace

How do you think we all know the Bible had been changed intentionally?
Answer: It is because of the original manuscripts we have that haven't been changed.

Quote

it could make a difference if it didn't match my other travel documents

Certainly this will make a difference .
If this happens you will find your self behind the central jail 's bars :)

Quote

I hear it said that there are some words in the Arabic language that do not have an English equivalent

Did you mean the ( non-Arabic) words in the holy Qur'an ???

Quote

To use a word that has the same inference does not change the message.

what about the word that has a different inference ????

Mount Ebal # Mount Gerizim




you still think that the message was not changed ???

Quote

How do you think we all know the Bible had been changed intentionally?
Answer: It is because of the original manuscripts we have that haven't been changed.

do you mean by this that you have the original writings of Paul the Apostle , Mark , Matthew , Luke, John and the OT 's Prophets ???
beware colleague !
you're playing in the Premier League ! - a joke - :)
have a nice day !

How do these changes affect the central gospel message that Christianity is built on? IOW, us Christians don't rest our faith on those changes you point out: our faith is in Jesus who is indisputably the Word of God. Besides, Muslims share in the torah Allah sent sown just as much as Christians do; so what is your point? Our faith for eternal life doesn't rest in the torah. The torah is a common source for the Jew first and to the Christians and Muslim; so what is your point?

Quote

Originally Posted by *اسلامي عزي*

Certainly this will make a difference .
If this happens you will find your self behind the central jail 's bars :)

Very likely.. Thos still not sure how this analogy works for you.. :)

Quote

Did you mean the ( non-Arabic) words in the holy Qur'an ???

Nope.. But the fact there are non Arabic words some may see as a problem. I meant an equivalent English word for an Arabic one.. Actually this is so in many languages.. Whenever something is translated if an exact corresponding word is not available then a word that has the same meaning is used. I have been told in the past if I misunderstand something in the Quran .. It's because I don't have sufficient knowledge in Arabic.. And to fully understand the words have to be read in Arabic the original language of the Quran.. Of course that could be an excuse used to avoid an explanation maybe.

Quote

what about the word that has a different inference ????

Mount Ebal # Mount Gerizim




you still think that the message was not changed ???

Sorry, but I'm not getting your point here so you will have to explain. What is the message you feel is changed here? I post the two translations you chose and add the New International Version (UK) when I compare these verses I can't see any difference between them in regards to the message they each convey.

Deuteronomy 11:26-32Lexham English Bible (LEB)


26 “See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse: 27 the blessing, if you listen to the commandments of Yahweh your God that I am commanding you today, 28 and the curse, if you do not listen to the commandments of Yahweh your God, but rather you turn from the way that I am commanding you today to go after other gods that you have not known.
29 “And it will happen that when Yahweh your God has brought you to the land that you are going to, to take possession of it, then you shall pronounce the blessing on Mount Gerizim and the curse on Mount Ebal. 30 (Are they not beyond the Jordan, toward the west, in the land of the Canaanites living in the Jordan Valley, opposite Gilgal beside the terebinth of Moreh?) 31 For you are now about to cross the Jordan to go to take possession of the land that Yahweh, your God, is giving to you, and you will take possession of it and live in it, 32 and you must diligently observe all the rules and the regulations that I am setting before you today.”

~~~~~

Deuteronomy 11:26-32Common English Bible (CEB)


Ceremony on Mount Gerizim and Mount Ebal
26 Pay attention! I am setting blessing and curse before you right now: 27 the blessing if you obey the Lord your God’s commandments that I am giving you right now, 28 but the curse if you don’t obey the Lord your God’s commandments and stray from the path that I am giving you today by following other gods that you have not known. 29 Now when the Lord your God brings you into the land that you are entering to take possession of, put the blessing on Mount Gerizim and the curse on Mount Ebal. (30 Aren’t both of these mountains across the Jordan River, down along the western road in the region of the Canaanites who live in the desert plain, across from Gilgal, next to the Moreh Oak Grove?)
31 So then, once you cross the Jordan River to enter and possess the land that the Lord your God is giving you, and you take possession of it, settling down in it, 32 you must carefully follow the regulations and the case laws that I am laying out before you right now.


~~~~~~~~

Deuteronomy 11:26-32New International Version - UK (NIVUK)


26 See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse – 27 the blessing if you obey the commands of the Lord your God that I am giving you today; 28 the curse if you disobey the commands of the Lord your God and turn from the way that I command you today by following other gods, which you have not known. 29 When the Lord your God has brought you into the land you are entering to possess, you are to proclaim on Mount Gerizim the blessings, and on Mount Ebal the curses. 30 As you know, these mountains are across the Jordan, westward, towards the setting sun, near the great trees of Moreh, in the territory of those Canaanites living in the Arabah in the vicinity of Gilgal. 31 You are about to cross the Jordan to enter and take possession of the land the Lord your God is giving you. When you have taken it over and are living there, 32 be sure that you obey all the decrees and laws I am setting before you today.

~~~~~~~

Quote

do you mean by this that you have the original writings of Paul the Apostle , Mark , Matthew , Luke, John and the OT 's Prophets ???
beware colleague !
you're playing in the Premier League ! - a joke - :)
have a nice day !

As good as... Where do you think the copies came from? They had to be copied from the original autographs.. From the manuscripts we have today it's possible to measure the accuracy of the copies made through the ages which is enables us to see what was added as postscripts and marginal notes and footnotes. For something to be a copy there has to be an original as it's source. As to the claim the originals were somehow lost... Well.. I find that quite preposterous!!! Why you would think the bible prophets, scribes Jews and Christians would be so careless as to just lose manuscripts that they believed contained the divine message of God is quite frankly ludicrous.

Premier League.... Indeedy... I think not.. Lol. :))))

peace to you.