Thread: Love for the Prophet is a Condition of Faith

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Christianity unlike Islam is not a government and religion mixture. We are to obey the laws of the land (government /cityand state) even when the wicked rule as long as their laws don't go against the laws of God.

Anything set by people that isn't from Quran or Sunnah is against the laws of Allah . That's how it is to us . If you're different , that's your case .

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would, however, fight against any legislation to promote sharia, because IMO, it is handing us all a one way ticket back to the 7th century to where I know it will be a constant clash with Christianity. Christians don't believe sharia is of God. Christians don't believe in shedding blood to promote their faith according to the Bible. It states love your enemies and do good to those who abuse and insult you. So the only way Islam can take over Christianity for the most part is through bloodshed, but that makes the church stronger. We know that the spiritual battles will soon manifest into bloodshed, I plan on it happening soon; I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. I'll probably be martyred if I maintain the message I share now, but I have kept it all my life. Only God can show me if I am in the wrong; no man can convince me.

Check the other thread for "Red herring" . And don't get us started on comparing . I swear to lord you'll be shocked to see the vast difference between the two in war . On a hand , you have crusaders who brag about how they shed so much blood in Palestine it reached their knees , and on the other , you have Christians thankful to the Islamic nation when it freed it twice . As for the 7th century emotional slander you all love to spam , it's based on sheer ignorance of how great the Islamic nation was when it actually ruled with Islam . That's when they set the basis for science with many of its branches at the time when Europe was in the dark ages . So when you refer to the 7th century as retarded and backward , keep that in your world , not ours .

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That's fine for you... If you can always be sure if the "oppressors and trespassers" are that in fact and one does not simply attach a convenient label for expediencies sake.

If you want for another time , we can show you "pure evil" from the mouth of its own people , be it in the past or now .

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We find the Quran goes back in time to the Old Testament battles... But now it's to spread the religion of Islam or to protect muslims from "unbelievers..?? Non muslims? How is Islam bringing enlightenment if it takes people back centuries? Is that progress?

Do I need to remind you that we don't believe the Bible you have now is the original message of Allah ? And thus saying things like "Quran takes people back in time" doesn't make sense .

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Do I need to remind you that we don't believe the Bible you have now is the original message of Allah ? And thus saying things like "Quran takes people back in time" doesn't make sense .

well.. I have yet to see the proof of that and until I do I shall continue to view the Bible in the way God intended me to. The whole question of Bible corruption and the claims Muslim make accordingly are based largely on misunderstandings, suppositions and conjecture. That may be good enough for yourself to take as evidence but for me I need something more. If I am to believe that YHWH is so weak a God that is unable to protect His message from corruption by His creation then I need real evidence of that fact.

So from my point of view I see the Bible is the original message of YHWH.. The New Testament fulfilled the Old Testament on matters of law. The Old Testament is the gradual unfolding of Mankind's journey from their fall into sin to the hope and promise of redemption through the Messiah Jesus..Through the New Testament we see the culmination of that journey and the promise made good. There were no need for battles in Gods name.. Except for the spiritual. It's the time of forgiveness, mercy, grace and love.

Then 600 years later along comes another revelation.. But now the era of forgiveness to all is past, forgiving ones enemies is past, mercy is limited to those who accept Islam as the only religion... grace is something you may hope for but have no guarantee of obtaining and love.. I don't see where that is at all. God decides that now it is allowed to kill in His name, to wage war in His name.. You will not see this view as you view Islam as a Muslim.. But to a non Muslim who does not have the same understanding of the Quran as yourselves can only judge the religion by its followers.. And when some of those followers commit crimes in the name of Islam and take the life of another whilst shouting "Allah Akbar".. It makes me sad and can't help but wonder why do they use their religion thus..? What do they see in the Quran to justify their behaviour?

So when I see such behaviour it does rather seem that we have gone backwards in time.. Where stoning for adultery, public lashing and cutting off the hands of thieves may have been common practice but the fact that they may still have a place in a modern world shows a lack of spiritual enlightenment. I'm sorry but that how I see things.. Talking to muslims over the years has dispelled some of theses worries..but not all.

Religion has always been used for selfish evil people for their own ends.. There will always be people who seek to do bad whilst hiding behind God. The blessing is that God sees all and there is no hiding anywhere.

Peace may God hear your prayers and guide you.

Just the title of this thread concerns me. Notice it says love for the prophet. This singles out love for one prophet as a condition for faith. Now we now that without faith it is not possible to please God or do his will; my question is now is it not prophet association with God to have and believe a title like this thread? How is it not excess in religion? How is it not a form of man worship when one must love one dead prophet as a condition of their faith? How is it not excessive and over esteem for one to say a prophet who is no longer living is the best of people and better than human not a form of man worship and idolatry? I can understand and accept this title if it were referring to Jesus who as a prophet, king and priest claimed to be the son of God and whom God claimed to be His son and as a prophet who was dead and is now alive forevermore and who is coming back to judge the living and the dead, but for a dead prophet, I cannot understand the justification for the title of this thread. Satan is the accuser of the saints. Wouldn't it be just like him to accuse Christians through a people that are doing what they accuse true believers of doing?
Blessings

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Originally Posted by Burninglight

Just the title of this thread concerns me. Notice it says love for the prophet. This singles out love for one prophet as a condition for faith. Now we now that without faith it is not possible to please God or do his will; my question is now is it not prophet association with God to have and believe a title like this thread? How is it not excess in religion? How is it not a form of man worship when one must love one dead prophet as a condition of their faith? How is it not excessive and over esteem for one to say a prophet who is no longer living is the best of people and better than human not a form of man worship and idolatry? I can understand and accept this title if it were referring to Jesus who as a prophet, king and priest claimed to be the son of God and whom God claimed to be His son and as a prophet who was dead and is now alive forevermore and who is coming back to judge the living and the dead, but for a dead prophet, I cannot understand the justification for the title of this thread. Satan is the accuser of the saints. Wouldn't it be just like him to accuse Christians through a people that are doing what they accuse true believers of doing?
Blessings

You need to upgrade your thinking

And as you see ladies and gentlmen , Burnlight is asking "Why do you love a great man ?!" . Does that make sense ?

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Originally Posted by نصير الدين

And as you see ladies and gentlmen , Burnlight is asking "Why do you love a great man ?!" . Does that make sense ?

Upgrade my thinking? why? Where I said "now you now" should be "now you know" Your comments show me that you have missed the point completely. Please read it again. There have been many great men in the world, but how can you love someone who is great that you have never personally interacted with? What kind of love is it you have? For instance, I love my wife and daughter, but how does one love a disciple of God or prophet that they have never met? Could it be confusion between love with worship? Does a person have to be great for you to love them. What about someone who is not great do you love them. I can love people I don't know by my actions and words toward them. Love is not an emotion, but how do I love a dead prophet who is not divine? How do you? Do you love the messenger Gabriel?

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but how can you love someone who is great that you have never personally interacted with?

And you're telling me that you interacted with the Christ ?! What kind of reasoning is that ?! If this condition is right , we shouldn't love any of the prophets .


Let's be honest , you just want to argue for the sake of argument . You probably feel disturbed and angered when we demonstrate love of Islam and its prophet . That's why she told you to "upgrade" your thinking .

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Originally Posted by نصير الدين

And you're telling me that you interacted with the Christ ?! What kind of reasoning is that ?! If this condition is right , we shouldn't love any of the prophets .


Let's be honest , you just want to argue for the sake of argument . You probably feel disturbed and angered when we demonstrate love of Islam and its prophet . That's why she told you to "upgrade" your thinking .

Yes, that's what Christianity is about. We interact with Christ Jesus who lives. Christianity is not about our religion it is about relationship with Christ or with God through Christ Jesus . To know Him is to have eternal life.

I am not going to tell you to upgrade your thinking, but I would say let Jesus upgrade your spirit.

If you think I am here trying to argue just for the sake of arguing, you don't know me, God or Jesus.

What I am trying to get you to realize is what you call love for your prophet is more than just love when you say he is the best of creatures or human beings, because all people are creatures of God by the will and word of God and equally special to God. I am also trying to get you to realize that God doesn't share His glory with another, and He is not a respecter of persons; so, why are you?

Maybe it does disturb me not to address that when you say your not committing idolatry and/or man worship, but your words and action tell a different story or that you believe Christians are the idolaters.

I just want to speak the truth as I see it of what is happening. I don't consider you or any Muslims the enemies. Satan is the enemy. I am just trying to expose his deception. Try to understand that I am not meaning to offend you personally or anyone on the forum although I know Christianity carries an offensive message first to the Jew. I just want to do battle with principalities and spiritual wickedness in high places. We are in a spiritual battle for the souls or men; don't you realize this? I am not in this for my health or to give you a difficult time. I believe I fail my God if I don't speak the truth in love.

Blessings

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Yes, that's what Christianity is about. We interact with Christ Jesus who lives.

First , I did say it isn't a condition for a person to be alive so that one loves him . Secondly , I can say that I don't see you interact with him personally in flesh and your argument is invalid . What kind of reasoning is that ?!

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What I am trying to get you to realize is what you call love for your prophet is more than just love when you say he is the best of creatures or human beings, because all people are creatures of God by the will and word of God and equally special to God

False by default . That's why there are such signs :

11:24 The example of the two parties is like the blind and deaf, and the seeing and hearing. Are they equal in comparison? Then, will you not remember?

So tell me , is a fair , just , great person the same as a commoner or a sinner ? Never :

68:34 Indeed, for the righteous with their Lord are the Gardens of Pleasure. 35 Then will We treat the Muslims like the criminals? 36 What is [the matter] with you? How do you judge?

And it is the creator who decides who is the best . And that's the prophet peace upon him . And if you read about his life from true sources - and not any book you find here or there - you wouldn't argue about it . Indeed , what is the matter of you thinking that the believers are the same as teh criminals ?!

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I am also trying to get you to realize that God doesn't share His glory with another, and He is not a respecter of persons; so, why are you?

The first and basic pillar of Islam is to believe there is no God except Allah and that Muhammad is his servant and messenger .

18:110 Say, "I am only a man like you, to whom has been revealed that your god is one God. So whoever would hope for the meeting with his Lord - let him do righteous work and not associate in the worship of his Lord anyone."

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Maybe it does disturb me not to address that when you say your not committing idolatry and/or man worship, but your words and action tell a different story or that you believe Christians are the idolaters.

We don't worship other than Allah . Your opinion doesn't really matter .

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Satan is the enemy. I am just trying to expose his deception.

His deception was making people worship a human and call him a God . In addition to many other things .

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His deception was making people worship a human and call him a God . In addition to many other things .

I know your post is in response to Burninglights, but if I may I would seek some clarification on this last point of yours,

Do you feel this is the greatest deception of Satan .. To make people worship a human as God? If so what does Satan gain by this?

Also.. Who do you think is worshipping a human as God?

On a point of curiosity .. Did Allah command the angels to ~ Prostrate yourselves before Adam, they fell prostrate, all save Iblis.. ~ . Iblis is satan is that so? Do you recognise Adam as the first human father of mankind? Why was Allah commanding angels to prostrate themselves to Adam in worship.?.. When we know all worship is for God alone.

From the the other side of the coin.. The greatest deception for satan is to steal souls from God and taking them for himself. Best way to do that is to turn them from the path of salvation God has decreed for them. As God has given man free will that door is open to anyone.

Peace