Love for the Prophet is a Condition of Faith

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شبكة الفرقان الإسلامية شبكة سبيل الإسلام شبكة كلمة سواء الدعوية منتديات حراس العقيدة
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Love for the Prophet is a Condition of Faith

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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by شمائل View Post
    Is the word Christ, the Son of Mary insult him?
    Yes.. The only people who referred to Jesus as Son of Mary in the Bible were His enemies. It was a title used to hurt, dishonour and question Jesus' legitimacy. What other prophet or indeed any notable man is referred to as son of his mother?.. Polite society always state son of his father... Never son of his mother. Now I hope you understand why Christians see this as an insult towards Lord Jesus to see Him named thus..

    For me this is another problem I have with the Quran, because God who is omniscient would know by what means this title given to Jesus by His enemies and what was in their hearts when they said such things. If it was surely known that it was used in a derogatory way.. Why would God allow it to be used for Jesus? God who referred to Jesus as HIS Beloved Son.. In the Bible would allow this insult to propagate?. Even if Jesus was not who He said He was and was just simply a prophet ... Even a prophet would not be shown such disrespect and named such. It is something that I cannot see God would allow, but it seems very possible that your prophet Mohammed could have heard this term from Jews who did not respect Jesus and mistakingly thought it was the proper form of address. I expect you have a different explanation. But I hope you can see why I see it as an insult to Christ Jesus.

    peace.

  2. #12
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    This order does not respect the mother of Jesus (according to the Bible)

    Jews say / that Jesus bastard

    The Koran, deemed that Jesus (peace be upon him) and the Virgin Mary,



    And [made me] dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me a wretched tyrant.


    Narrated Anas [may Allah be pleased with him]:
    that the Prophet (ﷺ) said: "Sufficient for you among the women of mankind are Mariam bint 'Imran, Khadijah bint Khuwailid, Fatimah bint Muhammad and Asiyah the wife of Fir'awn."


    On the other hand, the Bible says about Jesus




    nd when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.

    Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.


    And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.
    Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

    The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:

    Therefore will I be unto Ephraim as a moth, and to the house of Judah as rottenness.


    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

    تحمَّلتُ وحديَ مـا لا أُطيـقْ من الإغترابِ وهَـمِّ الطريـقْ
    اللهم اني اسالك في هذه الساعة ان كانت جوليان في سرور فزدها في سرورها ومن نعيمك عليها . وان كانت جوليان في عذاب فنجها من عذابك وانت الغني الحميد برحمتك يا ارحم الراحمين

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Burninglight View Post
    This passage explains why Muslims love Islam's prophet Muhammad, and the view they have of prophets. Muslims treat Muhammad the way Christians treat Jesus with one exception; they don't consider him the son of Allah.

    It is hard to pin down how Islam would have Muslims glorify Muhammad in their lives. So Muslims are mixed some have so much love for him to where they love him more than family, friends and their own lives as the crown of creation, but they are careful not to let it lead to deification, but this is impossible, IMO. It is like a person making erotic love to someone else's spouse saying "I must be careful that in my lust for this person it doesn't lead to adultery." That is spiritual insanity. The point is adultery is already happening; what is worse, the person doesn't know it.

    The reason Christians glorify Jesus and God does as well is because he is not just a prophet. All other prophets were just ordinary men they are dead, but Jesus still lives. It is not God's will to love and glorify the dead. Even men that were just prophets that didn't die like Elijah and Enoch shouldn't be glorified by man. That is idolatry. God will no stand for this. We respect and love their message because it comes from God but that is where the man and message should part in our glorifications. We should glorify the message and not the messenger. Jesus unlike Islam's prophet was NOT a messenger; He was the Message! God's people have no cause to glorify messengers it is sin In Christianity or what Muslims would call shirk.

    Blessings


    And another of his disciples said unto him, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father.


    But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.



    If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.




    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

    تحمَّلتُ وحديَ مـا لا أُطيـقْ من الإغترابِ وهَـمِّ الطريـقْ
    اللهم اني اسالك في هذه الساعة ان كانت جوليان في سرور فزدها في سرورها ومن نعيمك عليها . وان كانت جوليان في عذاب فنجها من عذابك وانت الغني الحميد برحمتك يا ارحم الراحمين

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    Wait a minute please sister Shama'il , this one isn't wrong in itself :

    Quote
    John 13:23

    23 One of his disciples, whom Jesus loved, was at the table, leaning against Jesus’ breast.
    But we can use it when someone makes a ridiculous allegation like this one here :


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    Now let me ask you Pandora , since the Christ peac upon him has no father - in Islam - and was born miraculousely only from a mother , WHAT father should they call him to ? And please don't tell me "Son of God" , we're talking about the Islamic prespective here .

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    Quote Originally Posted by نصير الدين View Post
    Wait a minute please sister Shama'il , this one isn't wrong in itself :



    But we can use it when someone makes a ridiculous allegation like this one here :


    If this includes a video I can't open it on my device.. Maybe you could just explain why you think the Sister is wrong in her choice of verses?

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    Quote Originally Posted by نصير الدين View Post
    Now let me ask you Pandora , since the Christ peac upon him has no father - in Islam - and was born miraculousely only from a mother , WHAT father should they call him to ? And please don't tell me "Son of God" , we're talking about the Islamic prespective here .
    Well.. Maybe you could refer to Jesus as Son of Joseph the Carpenter. Which was how Jesus was known early in the Gospels. You do know of course that Joseph was the foster father of Jesus? Is the role of Joseph mentioned in the Quran? After all it was by God's will and choice that Joseph's role in the early life of Jesus was determined.

    Or you could refer to Jesus as Prophet Issa.. If Issa was indeed another in a line of prophets why not use this title? Were any of the previous prophets called "Son of .... " or simply by the title Prophet?

    If the followers of Jesus recognised this title was disrespectful and insulting.. then for sure God would know also.
    You are asking me to believe that God told people to refer to Jesus in a manner that was known to be disrespectful and insulting. . Well... Sorry I can't do that.

    Peace.

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    Although we ultimately agree , I don't agree with choosing this verse . It appears to me that she means it hints at "gay" acts . But I don't think it does . Still , we can show it to certain Christians who look at some of our narrations with dirty minds and making conclusions completely unrelated to them . If they think dirty when it comes to Islam , they should do the same with their own book . And the video was about a guy called Butros .

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    Well.. Maybe you could refer to Jesus as Son of Joseph the Carpenter.
    Absolutely NOT possible .

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    33:5 Call them by [the names of] their fathers; it is more just in the sight of Allah . But if you do not know their fathers - then they are [still] your brothers in religion and those entrusted to you. And there is no blame upon you for that in which you have erred but [only for] what your hearts intended. And ever is Allah Forgiving and Merciful.
    And Christ peace upon him was an exception as he had no father .

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    You do know of course that Joseph was the foster father of Jesus?
    In Islam , adoption is forbidden . And you should know the difference between "Kafalat Alyateem"="Taking care of the orphan" and adoption as you know it . The first one is a great deed while the other , as in making the adopted the same as one's son , is forbidden . Adopting a person doesn't make him your child . Put simply . And I don't "know" that he was his foster parent in the meaning you seek .

    Quote
    Or you could refer to Jesus as Prophet Issa.. If Issa was indeed another in a line of prophets why not use this title? Were any of the previous prophets called "Son of .... " or simply by the title Prophet?
    In reality , I think you're seeing an insult in something not insulting . Christ peace upon him is indeed the child of lady Mary , and if some people used that name to accuse him and his mother after seeing the truth of his prophecy with their own eyes and hearing him talk in cradle then it doesn't change a thing and doesn't make their falsehood true . That also didn't happen with the enemies of prophet Muhmmad peace upon him who called him many things . None were true . And if you think that stating he is the child of lady Mary , are you saying he is NOT her child ? And for the record , Allah called different prophets with different names . Moses peace upon him was "Kaleem Allah"="One who speaks with Allah" , Yunus peace upon him was called "Thu Annoon"="One of Noon (An Arabic alphabet OR a whale)" , and others . Calling Isa peace upon him so is the same .

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    If the followers of Jesus recognised this title was disrespectful and insulting.. then for sure God would know also.
    And the evidence that the followers saw it insulting is ? Keep in mind that we're - as we've been doing for a week - talking about the Islamic prespective .

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by نصير الدين View Post


    Although we ultimately agree , I don't agree with choosing this verse . It appears to me that she means it hints at "gay" acts . But I don't think it does . Still , we can show it to certain Christians who look at some of our narrations with dirty minds and making conclusions completely unrelated to them . If they think dirty when it comes to Islam , they should do the same with their own book . And the video was about a guy called Butros .


    It certainly does not hint at "gay acts".. That you should even think that shows the state of your own dirty minds!!!!! Maybe the dear sister could explain what she meant by the verse or why she thought to choose it and the point she was making in choosing it. Rather than jumping to conclusions. Possibly wrong conclusions..

    Quote
    Absolutely NOT possible .
    then it leaves you with the dilemma not I. You will continue to address Jesus in this manner and it is you that will answer for it at judgement.. I'm ok with that..


    Quote
    And Christ peace upon him was an exception as he had no father .
    Whichever way you cut it.. Jesus had a father and that was God. The only two involved in the creation of Jesus were God and Mary.. Both the Bible and Quran agree on this point. Jesus's being and nature was down to God and Mary.. Where I take exception with the Quran is how it misrepresents the belief Christians held in regarding the conception of Jesus, which implies a physical act making Jesus a biological son of God. This is blasphemy and no Christian would believe such a thing. Something God would also have known.. Seeing as He sees into the hearts, minds and souls of all believers.


    Quote
    In Islam , adoption is forbidden . And you should know the difference between "Kafalat Alyateem"="Taking care of the orphan" and adoption as you know it . The first one is a great deed while the other , as in making the adopted the same as one's son , is forbidden . Adopting a person doesn't make him your child . Put simply . And I don't "know" that he was his foster parent in the meaning you seek .
    Foster parent... One who cares for a child as his or her own. Which Joseph did as he was commanded to do by God. You don't know because it does not tell you so in the Quran... Fair enough. It's clear in the Bible.

    Quote
    In reality , I think you're seeing an insult in something not insulting . Christ peace upon him is indeed the child of lady Mary , and if some people used that name to accuse him and his mother after seeing the truth of his prophecy with their own eyes and hearing him talk in cradle then it doesn't change a thing and doesn't make their falsehood true . That also didn't happen with the enemies of prophet Muhmmad peace upon him who called him many things . None were true . And if you think that stating he is the child of lady Mary , are you saying he is NOT her child ? And for the record , Allah called different prophets with different names . Moses peace upon him was "Kaleem Allah"="One who speaks with Allah" , Yunus peace upon him was called "Thu Annoon"="One of Noon (An Arabic alphabet OR a whale)" , and others . Calling Isa peace upon him so is the same .
    Look! the dear sister asked why it was considered an insult to refer to Lord Jesus as Son of Mary. I explained why that was so .. Why Christians found it offensive. That you do not see this because Allah did not share this information with you .. Is not my problem and does not impact upon my person any. However, for us it is a sin.. If we share the same God then maybe it would be considered a sin for you also, on that you will answer accordingly at the judgement. Talking in the cradle.. That again is difficult for a Christian to accept because of the original source of evidence is doubtful. Again, regarding the Prophets the accounts are different in the Quran and I do not see sound reasons for the differences.. So again I am unable to accept them as authentic.. That's for me.. Obviously for you it's different. :)

    Quote
    And the evidence that the followers saw it insulting is ? Keep in mind that we're - as we've been doing for a week - talking about the Islamic prespective .
    Quote
    Well, I already addressed this point.. My response was to the dear sisters query. Which was why it was considered an insult to Lord Jesus from a Christians perspective. You believe what you wish. We all have choice here.

    Peace.

  10. #20
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    It certainly does not hint at "gay acts".. That you should even think that shows the state of your own dirty minds!!!!! Maybe the dear sister could explain what she meant by the verse or why she thought to choose it and the point she was making in choosing it. Rather than jumping to conclusions. Possibly wrong conclusions..
    Wooo , hold it there . I did say that it doesn't mean gay acts . We just use it when someone thinks dirty and fabricates such things abut Islam . I mean that when someone like Butros - you can't see the video I guess - looks at a narration of the prophet peace upon him hugging a man and says it's "gay" , that's when we show him this so that he backs off . Of course it doesn't mean what we're talking about , it's just that he's using double standards .

    And by the way , some translations say that the man was sitting "next" to him . So you should probably call those translators dirty minded for their twisted way of understanding .

    Quote
    then it leaves you with the dilemma not I. You will continue to address Jesus in this manner and it is you that will answer for it at judgement.. I'm ok with that..
    You declare me destined to hell for more than that in your belief . So much for the love , don't you think ? Still though , indeed , we will see at the day all are judged .

    Quote
    Whichever way you cut it.. Jesus had a father and that was God.
    That's YOUR belief . Are you going to do the same as Burnlight and try to force it on ours ?

    Quote
    The only two involved in the creation of Jesus were God and Mary.. Both the Bible and Quran agree on this point. Jesus's being and nature was down to God and Mary.. Where I take exception with the Quran is how it misrepresents the belief Christians held in regarding the conception of Jesus, which implies a physical act making Jesus a biological son of God. This is blasphemy and no Christian would believe such a thing. Something God would also have known.. Seeing as He sees into the hearts, minds and souls of all believers.
    Since you admit there is no "biological" connection , how come he's "Son of God" ? And how come God is his "Father" ? Allah says in his noble book :

    Quote
    112:1 Say, "He is Allah , [who is] One, 112:2 Allah , the Eternal Refuge. 112:3 He neither begets nor is born, 112:4 Nor is there to Him any equivalent."
    And that's it for us . And if we're going to call him son of God because he's been created with his will , we should call every living creature so . Also , what signs do you mean when you say they "misrepresent" the Christian belief ? Did you actually read them carefully or see explanations for them (Which can be found on the internet !) ?

    Quote
    Foster parent... One who cares for a child as his or her own. Which Joseph did as he was commanded to do by God. You don't know because it does not tell you so in the Quran... Fair enough. It's clear in the Bible.
    Fair enough .

    Quote
    Look! the dear sister asked why it was considered an insult to refer to Lord Jesus as Son of Mary. I explained why that was so .. Why Christians found it offensive. That you do not see this because Allah did not share this information with you .. Is not my problem and does not impact upon my person any. However, for us it is a sin.. If we share the same God then maybe it would be considered a sin for you also, on that you will answer accordingly at the judgement.
    We don't worship the same deity . Allah calls Isa peace upon him the son of Mary . Since it's offensive to you , just ask , and we won't refer to him in such manner . Simple isn't it ?!

    Quote
    Talking in the cradle.. That again is difficult for a Christian to accept because of the original source of evidence is doubtful. Again, regarding the Prophets the accounts are different in the Quran and I do not see sound reasons for the differences.. So again I am unable to accept them as authentic.. That's for me.. Obviously for you it's different. :)
    Wait what ? So Christians don't believe he talked in cradle ? Or did I misunderstand you ? Seriously , I'm asking sincerly here . Anyway , you said it , each have their belief . Discussing which belief is true is another thing .

    Quote
    Well, I already addressed this point.. My response was to the dear sisters query. Which was why it was considered an insult to Lord Jesus from a Christians perspective. You believe what you wish. We all have choice here.
    Repeating again , if it's offensive , just ask , and we won't use the term while talking with you .

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Love for the Prophet is a Condition of Faith

Love for the Prophet is a Condition of Faith