Why don't Muslsims believe Jesus is the only way to God?

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Why don't Muslsims believe Jesus is the only way to God?

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Thread: Why don't Muslsims believe Jesus is the only way to God?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by نصير الدين View Post
    That - don't mean to be offensive - is a weak excuse . Just because something came before the other , it doesn't mean it's right . If so , then those former hypothesis about emryology - for instance - about how the human is fully developed in the oval are right and what we discovered now is wrong ! You seem to have serious misconceptions about Islam and what it says about the Christ peace upon him . We DON'T believe that the current Bible is the true one Allah revealed to his prophet and people ages ago (Although we do believe there is still truth in it that were not corrupted , yet) .!
    Then why are trying to be at the end of your post here. When you say someone has issues with their communication, you don't come across as not wanting to be offensive. I would say it has a condescending rude tone to it that doesn't make you appear to be truthful.

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by نصير الدين View Post

    3:71 O People of the Scripture, why do you confuse the truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while you know [it]?!
    Oh people of the Quran, why do you confuse truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while you have been told it many times. You know Jesus is the truth!!!
    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by نصير الدين View Post
    3:187 And [mention, O Muhammad], when Allah took a covenant from those who were given the Scripture, [saying], "You must make it clear to the people and not conceal it." But they threw it away behind their backs and exchanged it for a small price. And wretched is that which they purchased.

    2:79 So woe to those who write the "scripture" with their own hands, then say, "This is from Allah ," in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.!
    This is not clear. Which people of the Scripture who exchanged what for a price? Who has written with their own hands and what did they write? This is not explicitly talking about anything.
    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by نصير الدين View Post

    Bukhari , Book of witnesses , Chapter: Al-Mushrikun should not be asked to give witness :
    Ibn `Abbas said, "O Muslims? How do you ask the people of the Scriptures, though your Book (i.e. the Qur'an) which was revealed to His Prophet is the most recent information from Allah and you recite it, the Book that has not been distorted? Allah has revealed to you that the people of the scriptures have changed with their own hands what was revealed to them and they have said (as regards their changed Scriptures): This is from Allah, in order to get some worldly benefit thereby." Ibn `Abbas added: "Isn't the knowledge revealed to you sufficient to prevent you from asking them? By Allah I have never seen any one of them asking (Muslims) about what has been revealed to you."!
    This is not the Quran you quote here. What book has been distorted, how and why? How did they make money doing this? It just sounds like someone making this up so they could get you to turn from truth to error. Did you think of that?

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by نصير الدين View Post

    And if you could read Arabic , you'd find out that the forum is full of those articles ! Also , when I believe through evidence that Quran is the word of Allah which was not altered , I believe in whatever it says afterword because it can't be wrong or contradicting . And no , if you bring a number of slanders they will eithr be outright lies or misconceptions .!
    You cannot prove the Quran hadn't been altered nor can you prove its perfectly preservation since when Uthman burned all your originals after Muhammad's death and recompiled them acting as Allah's editor and he was no prophet who relied on the help of text Hafsah's copy and then her copy was destroyed. It all sounds fishy to me.

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by نصير الدين View Post

    Seriously , do you have issues with communication ? For the 49064059 time , we DON'T believe what your Bible says . You want to force us to take it for given that it is the true word of Allah not altered in any way . And when we say it's not , it goes through an ear and out of the other !
    You are trying to elevate yourself here by making others look small, and that is not the way to do it. It is not what our Bible says it is what Allah says he sent down that you deny. It is basically the torah and the gospel which no Muslim can prove was corrupted or that the Quran or Muhammad is referring to variances in the Bible or that Christians don't know about and are trying to do something about it. At least we know how to find out about changes made in the Bible, because our evidence wasn't burned like yours was. It seems like you have been pawned again.
    Peace
    BTW, why can I post directly ? Can you? If yes, why the unfair advantaged for you?
    Peace be upon you

  2. #12
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    I'm being rude and offensive here ? Well when you have a headache and someone thinks you should belief this and not belief this in the main pillars of belief of your religion , you are definitely to get frustrated !
    lol... Yes you are being rude.. :) but I'm not offended by your rudeness I have come to accept rudeness is sometimes a consequence of dialogue on this forum. Its of no matter.. If you do not wish to talk then the solution lies in your own hands... Don't enter into dialogue.

    In my time here I've learnt quite a bit and have had some interesting dialogue with some really nice knowledgable, polite muslims.. I usually find if one has to resort to childish insults then there's nothing to be gained by either party. I wish you well.

    May God bless you and guide you. Peace.

  3. #13
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    Oh people of the Quran, why do you confuse truth with falsehood and conceal the truth while you have been told it many times. You know Jesus is the truth!!!
    You're really giving me second hand embarrasment . So instead of admitting that you're wrong at making the absurd claim that Quran doesn't say the people of the book corrupted them , you resort to this ?

    Quote
    This is not clear. Which people of the Scripture who exchanged what for a price? Who has written with their own hands and what did they write? This is not explicitly talking about anything.
    If this isn't clear enough for you , go make medical contacts because times are more precious than wasting them arguing about such clear things . And if you think you can make your lousy escape with asking "How was it corrupted ?" then you are greatly mistaken . Proving how it was corrupted is another topic . The thing we're talking about here is that Quran - in spite of what you'd like to believe - does say the people of the book corrupted what they were entrusted with .

    Quote
    This is not the Quran you quote here. What book has been distorted, how and why? How did they make money doing this? It just sounds like someone making this up so they could get you to turn from truth to error. Did you think of that?
    These are the narrations to the companions of the prophet which they took from the prophet which he took from the almighty himself . This is basic Islamic knowledge you're lacking .

    Quote
    You cannot prove the Quran hadn't been altered nor can you prove its perfectly preservation since when Uthman burned all your originals after Muhammad's death and recompiled them acting as Allah's editor and he was no prophet who relied on the help of text Hafsah's copy and then her copy was destroyed. It all sounds fishy to me.
    I'll say it flat out . You're deluded . I'm telling you don't understand the truth about this mainstream slander of burning Quran and you ignore that and keep with your rant ?! Do you see now why I'm saying your posts are farces ?! And let me get this straight : I have to prove Quran wasn't altered and you don't need to prove it was ?! It sounds fishy to you ? Don't eat fish then because the smell is coming from you . I swear to the lord that if you try to start a discussion about that incident you'll reveal huge amounts of ignorance about anything in Islam .

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    You are trying to elevate yourself here by making others look small, and that is not the way to do it.
    Look who's talking ?! I'm trying to make others look small when I mention basic and minimum knowledge that they don't have ?!

    Quote
    It seems like you have been pawned again.
    It's ironic how this contradicts the beginning of your paragraph .

    Quote
    BTW, why can I post directly ? Can you? If yes, why the unfair advantaged for you?
    That's how it was with me as well at first with few posts . That's the rule .

    Quote
    If you do not wish to talk then the solution lies in your own hands... Don't enter into dialogue.
    If you expect me to sit back when I see such farces then you are seriously mistaken . You're trying to argue about A.B.C of Islam here ! It would be like letting someone say that snakes are mamals without saying the obvious fact that they aren't !

    Quote
    In my time here I've learnt quite a bit and have had some interesting dialogue with some really nice knowledgable, polite muslims.. I usually find if one has to resort to childish insults then there's nothing to be gained by either party. I wish you well.
    Call me childish or whatever you like . That's what I think of you both when you actually make such arguments . Again , you're trying to argue about basic Islamic belief that you seriously don't know anything about .

  4. #14
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    I know more about Islam than most Muslims. Regarding delayed posting, you said it was that way with you the first few posts, but I have done quite a bit more than a few posts. Is that called Muslim fairness?

    You are saying I am deluded, because you are convinced you have the truth, but I am equally convinced that Jesus is the truth; He is the only truth. He said it, I believe it, and that settles it for me.

    You don't believe what Jesus said that is recorded in the Bible. You use the ridiculous excuse that the Bible is corrupted not seeming to realize or not wanting to that the Scripture that came before are from the God you claim as your God. God preserves all His words and messages. Only Muslims are not willing to believe it. Even Allah said his word is unalterable. The Bible says God word is established forever in heaven so anything that contradicts what came before should be held suspect, but Muslims put the cart before the horse; we don't do that, and you say we Christians are deluded. If the message from the Scripture that came before is corrupted than so is the Quran for saying God word is unalterable. Make up you mind. Is man's power to corrupt greater than god's power to preserve His word. Do you even know who is God's Word?

    It is the god of Islam that calls himself the best of deceiver in the Arabic, but the English translation dishonestly translates him as best of planners. The fact is Allah does and did best what the unbelievers were doing according to the Quran. What were they doing? They were lying, cheating, scheming, plotting and deceiving; well Allah does those things best if you can understand context. Jesus calls Satan the father of lies; so, go figure, and at least try to understand why we true Christians might see things the way we do.
    Peace be unto you

  5. #15
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    Judge Christianity by Christians?

    Delayed deployment is not a hoax, is a system of law and forum
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

    تحمَّلتُ وحديَ مـا لا أُطيـقْ من الإغترابِ وهَـمِّ الطريـقْ
    اللهم اني اسالك في هذه الساعة ان كانت جوليان في سرور فزدها في سرورها ومن نعيمك عليها . وان كانت جوليان في عذاب فنجها من عذابك وانت الغني الحميد برحمتك يا ارحم الراحمين

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    Quote Originally Posted by شمائل View Post
    Judge Christianity by Christians?
    in all seriousness I do not believe you just said this! Should I then judge Islam by muslims? If that is the case just based on some of the behaviours of some muslims on this forum alone Islam would be found wanting.

    Jesus did not bring a religion.. Jesus brought a way to salvation and a means to make oneself right before God. It is man who has labeled the followers of Jesus's teachings as Christians and it is society that has termed it as a religion. Jesus IS the only church a Christian needs.

    A ~
    Quote
    Delayed deployment is not a hoax, is a system of law and forum
    B ~
    Quote
    That's how it was with me as well at first with few posts . That's the rule .
    A. ~ if you say so, however it does appear that Muslim members enjoy certain privileges in regards to posting on the forum than non muslims. Editing their own posts for one. I thought it was just a rule for me.. But as I see Burninglight also has the same issues it seems a system that is not quite as fair as it should be. It does seem strange to not allow direct posting.... Seeing as moderators have the right to edit or remove posts anyway.

    B. ~ this is not the case.. I have been on this forum almost as long as yourself and have more posts than you.. So obviously the "rule" is not as you believe it to be.

    The forum having rules is not an issue.. Every forum needs rules and guidelines for members to ensure smooth running and fairness for all. I am certainly not complaining or disagreeing with the need for rules.. Just if the rules discriminate against some members on the basis of their religious beliefs then.. It's not fair. Is this a representation of how muslims are supposed to deal with non muslims in everyday situations? A bit like the Dhimni status of old? :)

    Peace to you.

  7. #17
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    I know more about Islam than most Muslims.
    Seeing that you lack most minimum knowledge a Muslim should know , and the fact that every single arrogant person among Christians says this same line the same way , I'll take this as a joke .

    Quote
    Regarding delayed posting, you said it was that way with you the first few posts, but I have done quite a bit more than a few posts. Is that called Muslim fairness?
    If I recall correctly , I had to write 100 posts to be able to write directly . And you're now at 99 . And this isn't something to complain so much about . You get your posts shown .

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    You are saying I am deluded, because you are convinced you have the truth, but I am equally convinced that Jesus is the truth; He is the only truth. He said it, I believe it, and that settles it for me.
    Indeed , each of us believes in something based on what he sees as evidence . And because two religions can't both be right , one must be wrong . And that's why debates are held among people of knowledge whom I am not of .

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    You don't believe what Jesus said that is recorded in the Bible. You use the ridiculous excuse that the Bible is corrupted not seeming to realize or not wanting to that the Scripture that came before are from the God you claim as your God. God preserves all His words and messages. Only Muslims are not willing to believe it. Even Allah said his word is unalterable. The Bible says God word is established forever in heaven so anything that contradicts what came before should be held suspect, but Muslims put the cart before the horse; we don't do that, and you say we Christians are deluded. If the message from the Scripture that came before is corrupted than so is the Quran for saying God word is unalterable. Make up you mind. Is man's power to corrupt greater than god's power to preserve His word. Do you even know who is God's Word?
    Have not I told you before that you have serious misconceptions about Islam ? Or can't you read properly ? The people of the book were entrusted to preceive their books and they failed the test . So when you try to make it look like we're saying Allah couldn't preceive his books you're on a completely different page .

    Quote
    5:44Indeed, We sent down the Torah, in which was guidance and light. The prophets who submitted [to Allah ] judged by it for the Jews, as did the rabbis and scholars by that with which they were entrusted of the Scripture of Allah , and they were witnesses thereto. So do not fear the people but fear Me, and do not exchange My verses for a small price. And whoever does not judge by what Allah has revealed - then it is those who are the disbelievers.
    It's not that Allah couldn't preceive his words . It's that the people of the book failed the test and corrupted their own books .

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    It is the god of Islam that calls himself the best of deceiver in the Arabic, but the English translation dishonestly translates him as best of planners. The fact is Allah does and did best what the unbelievers were doing according to the Quran. What were they doing? They were lying, cheating, scheming, plotting and deceiving; well Allah does those things best if you can understand context.
    If you can't read Arabic then you have no idea what you're talking about . This is the sign in its original language :

    Quote
    وَإِذْ يَمْكُرُ بِكَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لِيُثْبِتُوكَ أَوْ يَقْتُلُوكَ أَوْ يُخْرِجُوكَ ۚ وَيَمْكُرُونَ وَيَمْكُرُ اللَّهُ ۖ وَاللَّهُ خَيْرُ الْمَاكِرِينَ
    And this is it in a translation :

    Quote
    8:30 And [remember, O Muhammad], when those who disbelieved plotted against you to restrain you or kill you or evict you [from Makkah]. But they plan, and Allah plans. And Allah is the best of planners.
    The word in question is "Makr"="مكر" . Your ignorance of Arabic - and listening to slanders you are fed with - makes you think that the word means "Deceiver" . While the best translation for the meaning is indeed "Planner" . Planning of people can be for good or bad purposes , but the planning of Allah is always for the good . An example is how you plan to corrupt the picture of Islam with lies like 9/11 - a huge farce indeed ! - still , Allah is better at planning and your schemes turned against you as more people are embracing Islam . That's what it means , not the false ideas you take for granted without even bothering to ask if true or not .

    And don't start talking about charecteristics of God and his prophet . Because I swear there is nothing you falsely allegate to Islam that doesn't exist times worse in your Bible . That's something unrelated to the current topic but apparently it's in your DNA to spam slanders after slanders to flood the page as if THAT is a conversation . Our current topic is that you made the joke of "Islam doesn't say the Bible is corrupted" which is clearly , a joke . So are you convinced now or do you want to embarrass yourself more ?

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    If I recall correctly , I had to write 100 posts to be able to write directly . And you're now at 99 . And this isn't something to complain so much about . You get your posts shown .
    hmm... I may just ask at this point as I have 399 posts on this forum.. How does that work? Maybe the moderator/admin just forgot to extend the same privilege to me..

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    As for the delayed posts , I seem to have got it wrong . And frankly , I don't remember what's the rule exactly . I'll leave the explanation to the sister .

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    Quote Originally Posted by نصير الدين View Post
    As for the delayed posts , I seem to have got it wrong . And frankly , I don't remember what's the rule exactly . I'll leave the explanation to the sister .
    Well.. We all make mistakes at times don't worry about it.

    May I ask is this in response to my last post about this matter, which has not been posted yet? If posts have to go through some translation process or something that's fine and good. If Muslim members see posts before they reach open forum again that's fine and good.. It would be a courtesy to explain that procedure to others who see themselves at a disadvantage because of it. It avoids misunderstandings.

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Why don't Muslsims believe Jesus is the only way to God?

Why don't Muslsims believe Jesus is the only way to God?