What is the wisdom behind the creation of Jesus (pbuh) without a father?

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What is the wisdom behind the creation of Jesus (pbuh) without a father?

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  1. #11
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    Dear

    Do you think that your criticism Siguenni me your opinion

    Your problem you can not explain what you believe never
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

    تحمَّلتُ وحديَ مـا لا أُطيـقْ من الإغترابِ وهَـمِّ الطريـقْ
    اللهم اني اسالك في هذه الساعة ان كانت جوليان في سرور فزدها في سرورها ومن نعيمك عليها . وان كانت جوليان في عذاب فنجها من عذابك وانت الغني الحميد برحمتك يا ارحم الراحمين

  2. #12
    pandora's Avatar
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    Dear heart... I don't think you are interested in explanations. :) how you view Christ His birth or whatever else does not impact on me at all, and I respect your right to hold the beliefs you have.. Even though I believe them to be in error and may indeed place you in a possible dark place.. But hey you see the same of my beliefs.. As that's the way the cookie crumbles as they say. :) however, what does impact on me is your inability to understand that my beliefs are as valid in my eyes as yours are to you. Even when a Christian explains why we believe as we do.. You insist we believe something different and you constantly commit blasphemy by claiming God had a "Son" in Jesus,. So, yes.. This does bother me but, more worryingly it should bother you more that you commit this blasphemy with impunity and not wonder of any consequences to yourselves.

    Why the Quran borrows imperfectly the account of the virgin birth I do not understand, because it dies not explain the necessity behind it and so leaves you with a conundrum and having to explain it away as some kind of proof of Gods miraculous powers directed at...??? Stiff necked..hard hearted Jews?? WHY? God had been sharing His miraculous powers and wonders directly and through His prophets since time began.. Do you think that the Jews.. Even the stiff necked ones.. Had not understood the power of God? Or even how their lack of understanding or acceptance would impact on God at all? Does God supreme power and creator crave the acceptance and approval of His creation? A nonsense .. God exists weather we acknowledge His greatness or not God does not need us... We do however, need Him. Yet even those doubters and disbelievers are not totally cut off from Gods divine love. Because God and His love is there for anyone to accept freely as a gift given. This was the most important lesson in Christ's mission... And how we can achieve that communion with God and share in that love.

    Jesus said..."I am the way, the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me" was He telling a lie? No... He was not.

    I will explain how a Christian views the virgin birth and the reason we understand the necessity for it. It will make no difference to you and I'm sure you will likely dismiss it with the usual rudeness or ignore it totally that is your choice. As I say your stance does not impact upon my person... Post to follow..

  3. #13
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    When God created Adam from dust.. Or clay whichever view to take. Adam was meant to represent the perfect human.. Made in Gods image to commune with God, take in mind any being in order to commune with God has to be by nature sinless as any sin is an anathema to a Holy God. However, Adam fell into sin.. The Bible and Quran both attest to this fact. Once sin was introduced to mankind through Adams disobedience then it was no longer possible for mankind to fulfil the role set out.. That being communion with a Holy God. You believe that God simply forgave Adam and he went forth to populate the earth. Here we see the consequence of sin differently. Christians believe that sin cannot be viewed so lightly and every sin carries a penalty which must be paid. God can't just arbitrarily forgive a sin without a penalty being paid. Adams penalty was to be banished to live out a life of toil for an allotted time which would end in death. We can never do enough by our own actions to pay this penalty because we need God to pay on our behalf, because only a Holy God can make us sinless and only by becoming sinless can we by Gods grace achieve paradise and community with God.

    Jesus was the solution, Jesus is the last Adam.. Because Jesus is what Adam was meant to be a sinless being, and as such was the means we can achieve righteousness and stand before a Holy God. As Adams sin sold us into the bondage of a sinful nature Jesus gave us the gift of spiritual eternal life through His selfless sacrifice. Without Jesus we are dead in our sins.

    Adam was created with no parents because he was the first being and until Eve was given in companionship human reproduction was not decreed. Once they were banished to earthly life and told to populate the earth.. Then we have human reproduction and from then all humans are born this way. Jesus, Gods Word, had to be born through a woman... Which makes Jesus fully Human.. Yet as Gods Word is essence of God then that Word is sinless as God is sinless.. Both the Bible and Quran claim Jesus as Gods Word and also attest to His sinless nature. God caused Mary to become pregnant with Jesus. Again both the Quran and Bible attest to this fact. God determined some of the physical characteristics of Jesus. All of the genetic characteristics of Jesus were determined by just two parties: God and Mary. On this basis I do not see where muslims have a problem with the nature of Christ, unless it is your belief that all this can only come about by a physical act between God and Mary.. (May God forgive my words, and may He see I mean no blasphemy by them) as it's been said many times this is only found in the Quran and no where in the Bible or Jewish scriptures has it ever been implied that any physical act was necessary. So no Christians or Jews (goes without saying) would ever have held such a point of view.. Indeed if they had it would have been contrary to their scriptures.
    So, other than Jesus ... The last Adam..correcting the error of the the first Adam, who allowed a sinful nature to enter into mankind separating us from our Holy God.. When we die we die for eternity. By Jesus's sacrifice on the cross (through Gods will) the we are granted the chance of eternal life. The creation of Adam and Jesus have nothing in common other than they were both ordained by God.

    I can give you a selection of biblical verses that point to the reasons for the birth and the nature of The Christ but I don't see the point. I have probably wasted enough time as it is :) so there it is.. My explanation of my belief as I see it.. I do not expect you to understand it or for sure see the truth of it... However your lack of understanding or open minded ness does not in any way detract from my belief as truth. As my belief is mine and yours is yours and on this point we are free to agree to disagree with respect and cordiality.

    I wish you peace and may God bless you. Xx

  4. #14
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    As usual, your words never illogical
    Why oh Pandora not trying to say words logically
    All I said was criticism of me, and lack of faith transferred from religion to religion when you believe


    What is your comment about the emergence of Adam
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

    تحمَّلتُ وحديَ مـا لا أُطيـقْ من الإغترابِ وهَـمِّ الطريـقْ
    اللهم اني اسالك في هذه الساعة ان كانت جوليان في سرور فزدها في سرورها ومن نعيمك عليها . وان كانت جوليان في عذاب فنجها من عذابك وانت الغني الحميد برحمتك يا ارحم الراحمين

  5. #15
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    Dear Pandora

    We are not talking about sin, but we talk about the miracle of the birth of Adam, whichoutweigh the miracle of the birth of Christ, peace be upon them

    To leave the subject of sin for the last time
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

    تحمَّلتُ وحديَ مـا لا أُطيـقْ من الإغترابِ وهَـمِّ الطريـقْ
    اللهم اني اسالك في هذه الساعة ان كانت جوليان في سرور فزدها في سرورها ومن نعيمك عليها . وان كانت جوليان في عذاب فنجها من عذابك وانت الغني الحميد برحمتك يا ارحم الراحمين

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by شمائل View Post
    Dear Pandora

    We are not talking about sin, but we talk about the miracle of the birth of Adam, whichoutweigh the miracle of the birth of Christ, peace be upon them

    To leave the subject of sin for the last time
    There was no "birth" of Adam. Adam was created as fully man in Gods image by Gods will. Jesus was created by God THROUGH humanity.. That is born of a woman. It's not about which miracle was the greater.. As miracles go they are equal they are both from God.

    The "miracle" is the reason why God decreed Jesus be born this way, when He could just have easily been created as fully man from dust or clay as Adam was.. The miracle being just as God knows our sinful nature He does not forsake us His creation.

  7. #17
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    Your word is never true

    Adam was created without a father or mother, not like other human beings by mating andlabor

    Christ and creation without a father and the rest of humans from birth or through labor

    Surprised at how you say that God creates a god like him?

    Dear: There are several miracles demonstrate the greatness of Almighty God, there can never pretend that all those miracles gods with God

    Such as:

    The emergence of Adam and Moses stick, which was inanimate and then became herspirit returned in the last inanimate

    Is this also the God of the stick? Or the son of God?


    You think Christians like:

    The world of man-made automatic, you leave talk about the science of the manufacturer, and served made
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

    تحمَّلتُ وحديَ مـا لا أُطيـقْ من الإغترابِ وهَـمِّ الطريـقْ
    اللهم اني اسالك في هذه الساعة ان كانت جوليان في سرور فزدها في سرورها ومن نعيمك عليها . وان كانت جوليان في عذاب فنجها من عذابك وانت الغني الحميد برحمتك يا ارحم الراحمين

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by شمائل View Post
    Your word is never true
    why would you say this? I stand by my words as truth as I understand them to be. Just because you cannot see the miracle BEHIND the virgin birth, not the event itself... Because even muslims accept the birth of Jesus as a miracle. You just do not see the necessity. The fact that you do not understand or choose not to believe does not mean my words are untrue.

    Quote
    Adam was created without a father or mother, not like other human beings by mating andlabor

    Christ and creation without a father and the rest of humans from birth or through labor

    Surprised at how you say that God creates a god like him?
    yes, we have already agreed that Adam had no mother or father like other humans.. And the Christ had no earthly father but was born of a woman like the rest of humanity. You seem to have at least grasped that.

    then you say something so ridiculous like ~ God creates a god like him ~ which goes to show how little you understand the Christ Jesus and what He said about Himself. Jesus was never A god .. The Bible never says that Jesus was A god. There is only ONE God Jesus taught this and the Bible teaches this and Christians believe this fact... That God is One. I can see now what a waste of time it is to discuss such matter here because you can never think outside the box the Quran has placed you in, and you can never see or consider the point of view of others or even accept what others may tell you of their beliefs because your Islam has decided that we actually believe something different and you will never be able to see past that or take the word of a Christian that we do in fact worship the ONE GOD... WHICH IS THE SAME GOD OF ALL THE PROPHETS ...YHWH.

    Quote
    Dear: There are several miracles demonstrate the greatness of Almighty God, there can never pretend that all those miracles gods with God

    Such as:

    The emergence of Adam and Moses stick, which was inanimate and then became herspirit returned in the last inanimate

    Is this also the God of the stick? Or the son of God?


    You think Christians like:

    The world of man-made automatic, you leave talk about the science of the manufacturer, and served made
    Sorry I do not see the point you are making here, so feel I cannot respond.

    Peace.

  9. #19
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    yes, we have already agreed that Adam had no mother or father like other humans.. And the Christ had no earthly father but was born of a woman like the rest of humanity. You seem to have at least grasped that.

    then you say something so ridiculous like ~ God creates a god like him ~ which goes to show how little you understand the Christ Jesus and what He said about Himself. Jesus was never A god .. The Bible never says that Jesus was A god. There is only ONE God Jesus taught this and the Bible teaches this and Christians believe this fact... That God is One. I can see now what a waste of time it is to discuss such matter here because you can never think outside the box the Quran has placed you in, and you can never see or consider the point of view of others or even accept what others may tell you of their beliefs because your Islam has decided that we actually believe something different and you will never be able to see past that or take the word of a Christian that we do in fact worship the ONE GOD... WHICH IS THE SAME GOD OF ALL THE PROPHETS ...YHWH.
    The words were true, how do you explain the conversion of religions

    You must be aware that you have not been able to convince me that your talk

    The problem that you believe in something you can not convince others of it

    In this case will remain open our opinions and should not never be critical of Muslim opinion in Jesus never

    We Christ, we are more of you

    The teachings of Christ in Islam and Christianity

    Quote
    Sorry I do not see the point you are making here, so feel I cannot respond.
    Think Thread


    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

    تحمَّلتُ وحديَ مـا لا أُطيـقْ من الإغترابِ وهَـمِّ الطريـقْ
    اللهم اني اسالك في هذه الساعة ان كانت جوليان في سرور فزدها في سرورها ومن نعيمك عليها . وان كانت جوليان في عذاب فنجها من عذابك وانت الغني الحميد برحمتك يا ارحم الراحمين

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by شمائل View Post
    The words were true, how do you explain the conversion of religions
    do you mean why do people convert to other religions? Why would they not? Christians may convert to Islam like muslims may convert to Christianity and the same goes for any religious belief. Some may even leave religion altogether and forsake God completely. None of that is important or will make any difference in the grand scheme of things. We live.. We die.. The only constant unchanging factor is God. The only time we will ever have certainty is at judgement until that time we tread the path we choose in the hope and belief it leads us back to God. As a Christian I am guided by the in dwelling of the Holy Spirit.

    Quote
    You must be aware that you have not been able to convince me that your talk
    I am not bothered by that at all. It's not my aim to convince you of anything. I only seek to make you understand that you are wasting your time with refutes, because the refutes are weak and based on your misunderstanding... Not you personally..just Muslim refutes in general. You could have tried to convince me of your prophets credentials as the final prophet as you claim, but unfortunately you must make false claims about Mohammed being prophesied in previous scriptures, which when looked at show yet further misunderstanding or misinterpretation of scripture.

    Quote
    The problem that you believe in something you can not convince others of it
    Again, I am not bothered by this as it does not impact upon my person if others believe as I do or not. The convincing of others in matters of faith are in the remit of God alone. What pure arrogance it would be to seek to change the mind set and turn a person from their belief. Imagine if you are wrong in your belief... You could be responsible for the eternal loss of a soul to God!!! God gave us through His supreme majesty and grace the freedom to choose our path to His divine love... And you would wish to turn a person from their chosen path.

    Quote
    In this case will remain open our opinions and should not never be critical of Muslim opinion in Jesus never

    We Christ, we are more of you

    The teachings of Christ in Islam and Christianity



    Think Thread


    My dear, I am growing to love your funny little ways.. :) but truly no offence to you but really... you do NOT know Jesus... If you did you would believe what He said about Himself.

    Blessings to to you and may God continue to guide you.

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What is the wisdom behind the creation of Jesus (pbuh) without a father?

What is the wisdom behind the creation of Jesus (pbuh) without a father?