Is Christianity the religion of peace and love or the religion of revenge and terror?

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Is Christianity the religion of peace and love or the religion of revenge and terror?

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Thread: Is Christianity the religion of peace and love or the religion of revenge and terror?

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    Default Is Christianity the religion of peace and love or the religion of revenge and terror?

    There are two contradictory answers in the Bible . Every answer contradict completely with the other. And that is something normal in Christianity . Christian mind absorbs and accepts the thing and its opposite .Even can understand Irrational thoughts as long as priests told them that. The examples are numerous in the Bible.
    1- The first answer is :- Yes, Christianity is the religion of peace and love and here is the evidence from the Bible :

    MAT-5-39 : But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
    MAT-5-40 : And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
    MAT-5-41 : And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
    MAT-5-42 : Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
    MAT-5-43 : Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
    MAT-5-44 : But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
    2- The second contradicted answer is :- Yes, Christianity is the religion of revenge and terror snd here is the evidence from the sameBible :

    1- MAT-10-34 : Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
    MAT-10-35 : For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
    2- EZE-9-5 : And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:
    EZE-9-6 : Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.
    EZE-9-7 : And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.
    3- JER-48-10 : Cursed be he that doeth the work of the LORD deceitfully, and cursed be he that keepeth back his sword from blood.
    4- ISA-13-16 : Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.
    ISA-13-17 : Behold, I will stir up the Medes against them, which shall not regard silver; and as for gold, they shall not delight in it.
    ISA-13-18 : Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eyes shall not spare children.
    ISA-13-19 : And Babylon, the glory of kingdoms, the beauty of the Chaldees' excellency, shall be as when God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah.
    ISA-13-20 : It shall never be inhabited, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: neither shall the Arabian pitch tent there; neither shall the shepherds make their fold there.
    5- HOS-13-16 : Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.
    6- NUM-31-17 : Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
    NUM-31-18 : But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
    NUM-31-19 : And do ye abide without the camp seven days: whosoever hath killed any person, and whosoever hath touched any slain, purify both yourselves and your captives on the third day, and on the seventh day.
    NUM-31-20 : And purify all your raiment, and all that is made of skins, and all work of goats' hair, and all things made of wood.
    7- Jos 11/ 9And Joshua did unto them as the LORD bade him: he houghed their horses, and burnt their chariots with fire.
    Jos 11/10 And Joshua at that time turned back, and took Hazor, and smote the king thereof with the sword: for Hazor beforetime was the head of all those kingdoms.
    JOS-11-11 : And they smote all the souls that were therein with the edge of the sword, utterly destroying them: there was not any left to breathe: and he burnt Hazor with fire.
    JOS-11-12 : And all the cities of those kings, and all the kings of them, did Joshua take, and smote them with the edge of the sword, and he utterly destroyed them, as Moses the servant of the LORD commanded.
    8- SA1-15-3 : Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass
    9- CH1-20-3 : And he brought out the people that were in it, and cut them with saws, and with harrows of iron, and with axes. Even so dealt David with all the cities of the children of Ammon. And David and all the people returned to Jerusalem.

    Christian Istttsa mind that absorbs and accommodates thing against him and also the absurd
    10- Deu 20/16 But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee for an inheritance, thou shalt save alive nothing that breatheth:
    *** What cruelty and terrorism is that " Does God orders with killing children and pregnant women, The Crusades were carrying out the instructions of the Bible as well as in Bosnia and Herzegovina . We repeat the Question . Is Christianity the religion of peace and love or the religion of revenge and terror? . I leave the answer to the smart reader ........
    "( رَبَّنَا لا تُؤَاخِذْنَا إِنْ نَسِينَا أَوْ أَخْطَأْنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تَحْمِلْ عَلَيْنَا إِصْرًا كَمَا حَمَلْتَهُ عَلَى الَّذِينَ مِنْ قَبْلِنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تُحَمِّلْنَا مَا لا طَاقَةَ لَنَا بِهِ وَاعْفُ عَنَّا وَاغْفِرْ لَنَا وَارْحَمْنَا أَنْتَ مَوْلانَا فَانْصُرْنَا عَلَى الْقَوْمِ الْكَافِرِينَ) (2/286)"


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    This is about context... That I have to adhere to when quoting the Quran.. But yourself can blissfully ignore when it comes to quoting the Bible.

    When you fail to use context then your post above make little sense. I expect a Muslim with little knowledge of the Bible will be impressed by such. However, a person who kind of knows the Bible will just see how you have misunderstood the nature of the Bible as a work.

    You have mixed verses from the Old Testament and the New Testament, the majority of the verses you have chosen to prove your point from the Old Testament are in regards to Gods judgement of wicked people... The Old Testament prophets did not question Gods judgement even when it may have been violent they recorded it as it happened as it was to serve as a lesson on Gods righteous wrath. They believed God knew best, which if I'm not mistaken muslims also believe of Allah.. That Allah knows best.

    How do you as a Muslim justify the violent verses in the Quran? Or do they make sense to you when read in context of the time, circumstance and place?

    I hope you see my point.

    Peace to you.

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    Excuse me pandora,
    You do not know anything in Christianity or in Islam. The Bible contains The Old Testament and The New Testament Christians believe that they are the words of God .If you want to discuss these topics. You must study your faith well and the faith of Muslims through the Bible and the Holy Quran. The matter is not easy. You waste time in nonsense
    "( رَبَّنَا لا تُؤَاخِذْنَا إِنْ نَسِينَا أَوْ أَخْطَأْنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تَحْمِلْ عَلَيْنَا إِصْرًا كَمَا حَمَلْتَهُ عَلَى الَّذِينَ مِنْ قَبْلِنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تُحَمِّلْنَا مَا لا طَاقَةَ لَنَا بِهِ وَاعْفُ عَنَّا وَاغْفِرْ لَنَا وَارْحَمْنَا أَنْتَ مَوْلانَا فَانْصُرْنَا عَلَى الْقَوْمِ الْكَافِرِينَ) (2/286)"


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    Quote Originally Posted by عثمان أحمد الشيخ View Post
    Excuse me pandora,
    You do not know anything in Christianity or in Islam. The Bible contains The Old Testament and The New Testament Christians believe that they are the words of God .If you want to discuss these topics. You must study your faith well and the faith of Muslims through the Bible and the Holy Quran. The matter is not easy. You waste time in nonsense
    There is no need to be patronising or insulting. I know well the Bible, you patently don't, so best you refrain from such posts, because unless you understand that the Bible by nature of the work is not the same as the Quran. Christians believe the Bible to be the inspired word of God, you can look up what that means.

    Firstly, the Bible is not just one single book. It is actually a collection of 66 books, which is called the canon of scriptures. These 66 books contain a variety of genres....history, poetry, prophecy, wisdom literature, letters, and apocalyptic just to name a few.
    Second, these 66 books were written by 40 different authors. These authors came from a variety of backgrounds.. shepherds, fishermen, doctors, kings, prophets, and others. And most of these authors never knew one another personally. Third, these 66 books were written over a period of 1500 years. Yet again, this is another reason why many of these authors never knew or collaborated with one another in writing these books.
    Fourth, the 66 books of the Bible were written in 3 different languages. Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic.. a reflection of the historical and cultural circumstances in which each of these books were written.
    And finally, these 66 books were written on 3 different continents... Africa, Asia, and Europe. This is a testament to the varied historical and cultural circumstances of God’s people.


    Think about the above realities... 66 books, written by 40 different authors, over 1500 years, in 3 different languages, on 3 different continents. What’s more, this collection of books shares a common storyline- the creation, fall, and redemption of God’s people, a common theme- God’s universal love for all of humanity, and a common message- salvation is available to all who repent of their sins and commit to following God with all of their heart, soul, mind and strength. In addition to sharing these common themes, these 66 books contain no historical errors or contradictions... Contrary to your belief.

    So so before you start criticising the Bible it's you who need understand better what you are criticising, otherwise the claims you make come across as nonsense. I would not criticise the Quran because I do not feel I have the depth of knowledge to do so, besides we are taught to respect the religious beliefs of others. I think the Quran also teaches muslims to be respectful of others beliefs.. At least I believe that is what your Prophet taught.

    Peace to you.

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    Pandora,
    1- I am sorry I did not mean to insult you . I respect every one in that Forum whatever his or her religion is . We Muslims believe that there is no God but God . God (praise be to him) taught us that he is the only and unique God of that universe . He has no son , no partner . no one shares him in his kingdom and no one likens him. No one is compared with him . No one had seen him and no one has heard his voice .He was not begotten and he does not beget and that is found in the Holy Bible. Allah (in Arabic) God (in English) says in the Holy Quran :-


    In the name of Allah (God ), Most Gracious, Most Mercifu
    1. Say: He is Allah, the one and Only;
    2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
    3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
    4. And there is none like unto Him. (112/1-4)


    2- Allah (praise be to him) is the only God of Adam, Noah, Abraham Jacob, Isaac, Ismail, Mosa, Isa (Jesus) and Mohammad (peace be upon them all).We believe in all prophets and messengers. The Almighty God (praise be to him) sent all these prophets and messengers to guide people to the straight way (which is the only one that guide people to Paradise).To know and worship the only true God of that world.Jesus himself (peace be upon him ) invited you to worship the only true God saying " And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent" and this was the same message of all prophets and messengers before Jesus and after him..

    3.Christians have deviated from the path of the messengers and prophets and exaggerated in their love to Jesus after Allah (God) has raised him to heaven to save him from Jews. They said he is a son of God and made him God (Heaven forbid ) in trinity and the idea that Allah the great creator of that world (that his heavens and his earth can not expand him) incarnated in the womb of Mary and Mary became the mother of God and he is her God. Also the idea that Jesus came to die on the cross for forgiving the sins of people.And the amazing thing is that all these ideas are not found in the Bible.All these ideas are insult and affront to God . They are the true blasphemy
    4- Jesus (peace be upon him) never said that . He is innocent of all that nonsence .He warned you from that saying :- "MAT-15-9: But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men" and Muhammad (peace be upon him) said :- " Do not praise me as Christians praise the son of Mary but say (Muhammad is the slave of Allah and his messenger) . He begged to Allah saying ( Oh my God. do not make my grave an idol worshiped)

    5- The Almighty God (pbth) told us to invite people to worship the Only true God saying in the Holy Quran :- '' Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance. ( 16/ 125 )
    -- In another verses He (praise be to him) said :-
    46. And dispute ye not with the people of the Book ( Jews and Christians), except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, "We believe In the Revelation which has come down to us and In that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam)."
    6- So ,we discuss these matters with you to reach the straight way.We believe in all messengers and prophets of Allah and we make no distinction between them all (peace be upon them all ) . I hope that our God help us all and guide me and you to the straight way . Ameen.Ameen.


    "We make no distinction (They say) between one and another of His apostles."
    "( رَبَّنَا لا تُؤَاخِذْنَا إِنْ نَسِينَا أَوْ أَخْطَأْنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تَحْمِلْ عَلَيْنَا إِصْرًا كَمَا حَمَلْتَهُ عَلَى الَّذِينَ مِنْ قَبْلِنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تُحَمِّلْنَا مَا لا طَاقَةَ لَنَا بِهِ وَاعْفُ عَنَّا وَاغْفِرْ لَنَا وَارْحَمْنَا أَنْتَ مَوْلانَا فَانْصُرْنَا عَلَى الْقَوْمِ الْكَافِرِينَ) (2/286)"


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    Quote Originally Posted by عثمان أحمد الشيخ View Post
    Pandora,
    1- I am sorry I did not mean to insult you . I respect every one in that Forum whatever his or her religion is . We Muslims believe that there is no God but God . God (praise be to him) taught us that he is the only and unique God of that universe . He has no son , no partner . no one shares him in his kingdom and no one likens him. No one is compared with him . No one had seen him and no one has heard his voice .He was not begotten and he does not beget and that is found in the Holy Bible. Allah (in Arabic) God (in English) says in the Holy Quran :-


    Thank you for your gracious apology. I can see it must be difficult for you to accept the beliefs of others when they seem to you so different from your own Islam. Yet funny, I do not see that much that is different in the important point, that of God being ONE. True God is not begotten and God does not beget in the way muslims imply. Christians have never believed Jesus was "begotten" as in human terms, in fact the idea is abhorrent and blasphemous to us and muslims fail to see how deep the hurt goes when you say we believe Jesus was Gods son. Because your belief of what the term means and ours are very different... And know matter how many times a Christian will say you are mistaken in this idea.. Muslims still refuse to understand.

    Quote
    In the name of Allah (God ), Most Gracious, Most Mercifu
    Quote
    1. Say: He is Allah, the one and Only;
    2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
    3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;
    4. And there is none like unto Him. (112/1-4)
    Quote

    2- Allah (praise be to him) is the only God of Adam, Noah, Abraham Jacob, Isaac, Ismail, Mosa, Isa (Jesus) and Mohammad (peace be upon them all).We believe in all prophets and messengers. The Almighty God (praise be to him) sent all these prophets and messengers to guide people to the straight way (which is the only one that guide people to Paradise).To know and worship the only true God of that world.Jesus himself (peace be upon him ) invited you to worship the only true God saying " And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent" and this was the same message of all prophets and messengers before Jesus and after him..
    You say you believe in all the prophets, but really you only believe the ones mentioned in the Quran, which is to be expected. However there are many other prophets who brought revelations. These are not known, and I don't know why the Quran has no great depth to the Biblical prophets it does recognise., because of that lack of depth the greater understanding is lost. If I am honest and did not know the prophets from the Bible and just knew of them from the Quran alone, then I would not recognise what they brought. Jesus in the Quran is like a shadow, there is nothing of his teachings, yet muslims claim to know Jesus better than His actual followers do! I find this remarkable because truly if someone did not tell me that Jesus and Isa were one and the same I would not see any resemblance at all.

    Quote
    3.Christians have deviated from the path of the messengers and prophets and exaggerated in their love to Jesus after Allah (God) has raised him to heaven to save him from Jews. They said he is a son of God and made him God (Heaven forbid ) in trinity and the idea that Allah the great creator of that world (that his heavens and his earth can not expand him) incarnated in the womb of Mary and Mary became the mother of God and he is her God. Also the idea that Jesus came to die on the cross for forgiving the sins of people.And the amazing thing is that all these ideas are not found in the Bible.All these ideas are insult and affront to God . They are the true blasphemy
    Here you are talking from your own point of view, imposing your truth upon the beliefs of others and because they are not the same view as your own then obviously they are wrong. This is natural, and of course I see evidence from my scriptures which I believe are God given and the teachings of Jesus and the guidance of the Holy Spirit, tell me, that I am right. I see where you misinterpret the Bible and believe it implies something it does not and you take this for evidence of your truth... But your misunderstanding of something does not prove it wrong. There are many things in Islam that I do not understand, yet I will not say you are wrong.. Because it is not my place to be so arrogant as to tell you what you should believe which maybe different to what Allah has given you to believe. I accept God places us all where He wants us to be, I have faith in His power over evil to ensure that if it feels right then it is right... For each and everyone of us who holds God in the highest esteem.

    Quote
    4- Jesus (peace be upon him) never said that . He is innocent of all that nonsence .He warned you from that saying :- "MAT-15-9: But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men" and Muhammad (peace be upon him) said :- " Do not praise me as Christians praise the son of Mary but say (Muhammad is the slave of Allah and his messenger) . He begged to Allah saying ( Oh my God. do not make my grave an idol worshiped)
    Here is an example of misunderstanding Bible scripture... You use the words here in Matthew..

    "MAT-15-9: But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men"

    You look at the words and see they suit your purpose but totally ignore the context and as a consequence miss the meaning I urge you to read a more of the verse below and you will see that the words you use Jesus was not applying to Himself, He was quoting Isaiah... These words were from God when he told Prophet Isaiah that the people only worshipped Him with their lips but not with their hearts.. And so they were so far from God because they had put a greater emphasis or their teachings and human rules.


    15 Then some Pharisees and teachers of the law came to Jesus from Jerusalem and asked, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? They don’t wash their hands before they eat!”


    3 Jesus replied, “And why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition? 4 For God said, ‘Honor your father and mother’ and ‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death.’ 5 But you say that if anyone declares that what might have been used to help their father or mother is ‘devoted to God,’ 6 they are not to ‘honor their father or mother’ with it. Thus you nullify the word of God for the sake of your tradition. 7 You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you:


    8 “‘These people honor me with their lips,
    but their hearts are far from me.
    9 They worship me in vain;
    their teachings are merely human rules.’
    10 Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen and understand. 11 What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.”


    12 Then the disciples came to him and asked, “Do you know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this?”


    13 He replied, “Every plant that my heavenly Father has not planted will be pulled up by the roots. 14 Leave them; they are blind guides. If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a pit.”


    15 Peter said, “Explain the parable to us.”


    16 “Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked them. 17 “Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18 But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20 These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.”



    Quote
    5- The Almighty God (pbth) told us to invite people to worship the Only true God saying in the Holy Quran :- '' Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance. ( 16/ 125 )
    -- In another verses He (praise be to him) said :-
    46. And dispute ye not with the people of the Book ( Jews and Christians), except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, "We believe In the Revelation which has come down to us and In that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam)."
    6- So ,we discuss these matters with you to reach the straight way.We believe in all messengers and prophets of Allah and we make no distinction between them all (peace be upon them all ) . I hope that our God help us all and guide me and you to the straight way . Ameen.Ameen.


    "We make no distinction (They say) between one and another of His apostles."
    Quote
    i look at your quotes from the Quran and do not see the first as applying to Jews or Christians because they were already worshipping the One true God, they just did not call Him Allah that is the only difference, and that is no difference at all for that is purely language. I do see it as a message for Mohammed to call pagan unbelievers to the One True God. The second quote seems to imply that you do not need to argue or dispute with us... Could this be because it was recognised that Jews and Christians already had communion with God? Revelation that came down to you and to us and God of all being one and the same. So why all the Dawah? Is it not better to leave such things to God alone and put our trust in Him to keep us on our intended straight way? With this small acceptance of our difference our time could be better spent in gaining a greater understanding of each other, that way there is no need for harshness. With understanding comes tolerance, with tolerance comes peace and I think we can all agree that the world would be a better place for peace.. And of course not forgetting Love which is the greatest requirement of all. .. because it best reflects the nature of Our One True God.

    peace upon you, I hope God continues to guide you where He wills.

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    * You said :" the Bible is not just one single book. It is actually a collection of 66 books, which is called the canon of scriptures. These 66 books contain a variety of genres.
    1- Do you believe that all the Bible "the word of God" or the 66 books are attributed to their authors?.
    2- Do you believe that the Old Testament and the New Testament are the two parts of the Bible and they are the words of God as all Christians believe ?
    3- Are you sure that all the Bibles all over the world 66 books? I think that in the single-family you can see the version of the father is different from the version of the mother and the version of the son is different from the version of the daughter . In my poor knowledge every sect has its own Bible such as:
    The Copy of the Protestants is 66 chapters
    The copy of the Catholicos is 73 chapters
    The copy of the Greek Orthodox is 75 chapters
    The copy of the Ethiopian Orthodox is 81 chapters
    The copy of the east Orthodox in Eastern Europe is 87 chapters
    --- Which of these Bibles is the word of God? Please tell me if you can.Who added and who removed from The Holy Bible?
    --- Also there are a lot of verses were removed from " the New International Version" Please read the introduction of the bible and check the verses .Also revise the New Revised Standard Version . You will see a lot of verses that were moved from the Bible because they are not found in the oldest manuscripts.Who added these verses? !!!!!
    * You said :" these 66 books were written by 40 different authors over 1500 years, in 3 different languages, on 3 different continents And most of these authors never knew one another personally. "
    1- Then the Bible is a human made written by 40 authors who do not know each other.That justifies the big mistakes, the terrible contradictions and the scientific errors in the Bible. Do not say that they wrote the Bible with the help of the Holy Spirit !!!!!! Why do you say that the Bible is the word of God? I am waiting for you anwer to my questions ......
    "( رَبَّنَا لا تُؤَاخِذْنَا إِنْ نَسِينَا أَوْ أَخْطَأْنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تَحْمِلْ عَلَيْنَا إِصْرًا كَمَا حَمَلْتَهُ عَلَى الَّذِينَ مِنْ قَبْلِنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تُحَمِّلْنَا مَا لا طَاقَةَ لَنَا بِهِ وَاعْفُ عَنَّا وَاغْفِرْ لَنَا وَارْحَمْنَا أَنْتَ مَوْلانَا فَانْصُرْنَا عَلَى الْقَوْمِ الْكَافِرِينَ) (2/286)"


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    I will endeavour to answer your questions to the best of my ability.

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by عثمان أحمد الشيخ View Post
    * You said :" the Bible is not just one single book. It is actually a collection of 66 books, which is called the canon of scriptures. These 66 books contain a variety of genres.
    1- Do you believe that all the Bible "the word of God" or the 66 books are attributed to their authors?.
    Christians believe the Bible to be the inspired word of God. This is what the Bible claims for itself we have no reason to doubt Gods purpose or question His divine methods. Do you mean were the books penned by the Prophets they are attributed to? Many prophets did pen there own revelation many employed scribes.. Do you believe that if a book is penned by a scribe and not the author directly this somehow effects the content of the book? May I ask what method did Mohammed employ to ensure the scribes recorded his words accurately? Was the whole of the Quran collected together in the form it is today during his lifetime? I'm sure you have no cause to doubt that the scribes that penned the Quran took the utmost care with their work as they believed the work they did was to the glory of God. Why would you suppose any different for the biblical scribes? They also believed their work was to the glory of God.

    Quote
    2- Do you believe that the Old Testament and the New Testament are the two parts of the Bible and they are the words of God as all Christians believe ?
    I'm not sure I understand your question here. The Old Testament is part of the Jewish scriptures and contain the Torah "laws"the New Testament or Gospel is the account of Jesus the messiah His birth, mission, earthly death and resurrection. We believe they contain the inspired message of God and an historical account of the creation, fall of man and mans redemption a gradual chronological order of the unfolding of Gods plane for mankind. Christians like muslims will at times interpret the same message differently. Yet the core belief is the same.

    Quote
    3- Are you sure that all the Bibles all over the world 66 books? I think that in the single-family you can see the version of the father is different from the version of the mother and the version of the son is different from the version of the daughter . In my poor knowledge every sect has its own Bible such as:
    The Copy of the Protestants is 66 chapters
    The copy of the Catholicos is 73 chapters
    The copy of the Greek Orthodox is 75 chapters
    The copy of the Ethiopian Orthodox is 81 chapters
    The copy of the east Orthodox in Eastern Europe is 87 chapters
    your knowledge is not poor in this respect, no doubt you have checked your information above and so you can also easily find out why different branches of Christianity include different numbers of books in their Bible. When you say chapters they are in fact books.. Christians of whatever branch will always have the same 66 books, why some seem to have more books than 66 in common use are because they include the Deuterocanonical or the Apocrypha. These books have always been available they have not been deleted or added, there has been disagreement amongst Biblical Scholars as to weather they contain the inspired word of God. The nature of the books in question and weather they are there or not, does not detract from the message the 66 books in common use tell. Your point about family and different Bibles.. The Bibles are the same they are translations, translations will only differ in minor textual matter which again in no way detracts from the message. You have different translations of the Quran, there may be minor textual differences but again the message remains constant.

    Quote
    --- Which of these Bibles is the word of God? Please tell me if you can.Who added and who removed from The Holy Bible?
    --- Also there are a lot of verses were removed from " the New International Version" Please read the introduction of the bible and check the verses .Also revise the New Revised Standard Version . You will see a lot of verses that were moved from the Bible because they are not found in the oldest manuscripts.Who added these verses? !!!!!
    What constitutes a "lot of verses". If they were not found in the oldest manuscripts then it's right they should be removed. Personally I don't like the King James Version, no doubt he though he was doing a good thing and in a way he was because he brought the bible to people who had not had access to it before. and a chance to own their own copy. He made it his life's work but he did not use original manuscripts but translations. As more knowledge became available then it was revised. I have no idea who moved what when. Do you know about the copies of the Quran the Uthman destroyed? I mean, if all other copies at the time were destroyed how can you be sure something was not left out or the odd word added here or there? This has to come down to faith.. Just as you have faith that Allah protected his word in the Quran I have the same faith that God protects His word in the Bible.

    Quote
    * You said :" these 66 books were written by 40 different authors over 1500 years, in 3 different languages, on 3 different continents And most of these authors never knew one another personally. "
    1- Then the Bible is a human made written by 40 authors who do not know each other.That justifies the big mistakes, the terrible contradictions and the scientific errors in the Bible. Do not say that they wrote the Bible with the help of the Holy Spirit !!!!!! Why do you say that the Bible is the word of God? I am waiting for you anwer to my questions ......
    The Bible was written by the guidance of the Holy Spirit weather you believe it or not is immaterial. Jesus is Gods eternal word He promised he would send the spirit to guide the apostles to ensure His word reached all mankind, this he did. There are no ...big mistakes, terrible contradictions, scientific errors as you see them to be. We do not say the Bible is the word of God verbatim, as you claim for the Quran. We claim it is the inspired word of God.. Scripture is God breathed we know this and as we know God we trust His word... Jesus Christ.

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    Dear Pandora,
    Thank you for your answers. I have many comments on them but I think that we have opened many issues and topics in general.What about if we discuss each individual issue to make the discussion so useful and fruitful for both of us. Of course, you have all right to agree or disagree with all my appreciation and respect.Also you have all right to continue or not continue at any time.I suggest that we start with the issue of the Godhood of Jesus (peace be upon him) . Many years ago, I visited two monasteries in the desert.The Monk gave us a lecture to know the Christian faith.He said directly and explicitly "And we Christian believe that Jesus is our God". In fact, it was a big shock to hear that "so I began to study the Bible.
    -- By the way.There is only one version of the Holy Quran in Arabic for more than 1400 years since the time of Muhammad (peace be upon him). You should know that the Holy Quran descended on Muhammad through "Jibril" the angle of Allah throughout 23 years.Some companions of the messengers memorized The Holy Quran by heart.The Holy Quran was written in pottery or some bones or some of skins of animals and was reviewed by Jibril and Muhammad once a year .In the year that the messenger died Jibril reviewed the Quran with him two times.Osman (May Allah be pleased with him ) collected all the Holy Quran in one book . He united the Umma of Islam on one book .On one writing what is called " Osmany drawing " so the Holy Quran is one in every part in that world. .Yes, the Holy Quran was translated into many languages . We Muslims do not call them " the translation of the Holy Quran " because there are differences in translations" but we call them " the translation of the meaning of the Holy Quran" to be more accurately.Thank you and peace on you .
    "( رَبَّنَا لا تُؤَاخِذْنَا إِنْ نَسِينَا أَوْ أَخْطَأْنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تَحْمِلْ عَلَيْنَا إِصْرًا كَمَا حَمَلْتَهُ عَلَى الَّذِينَ مِنْ قَبْلِنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تُحَمِّلْنَا مَا لا طَاقَةَ لَنَا بِهِ وَاعْفُ عَنَّا وَاغْفِرْ لَنَا وَارْحَمْنَا أَنْتَ مَوْلانَا فَانْصُرْنَا عَلَى الْقَوْمِ الْكَافِرِينَ) (2/286)"


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    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by عثمان أحمد الشيخ View Post
    Dear Pandora,
    Thank you for your answers. I have many comments on them but I think that we have opened many issues and topics in general.What about if we discuss each individual issue to make the discussion so useful and fruitful for both of us. Of course, you have all right to agree or disagree with all my appreciation and respect.Also you have all right to continue or not continue at any time.I suggest that we start with the issue of the Godhood of Jesus (peace be upon him) . Many years ago, I visited two monasteries in the desert.The Monk gave us a lecture to know the Christian faith.He said directly and explicitly "And we Christian believe that Jesus is our God". In fact, it was a big shock to hear that "so I began to study the Bible.
    As you please, I am always agreeable to respectful dialogue with the aim for better mutual understanding. I wish for you to understand that I am not here to win hearts and minds to Christianity.. :) I would not wish to waste my time, as I believe we are all guided by Gods Spirit alone and it is not our place to enforce our beliefs upon others. People followed Jesus by choice He never put people under obligation trusting only in God, I endeavour to follow in His gracious footsteps. I only wish to clarify a Christians belief in their scriptures, as I see many muslims believe many different things about the Christian faith which are not true. I do not see where such views of Christianity that muslims hold today stem from... I do not believe your prophet Mohammed thought thus... And these misconceptions have developed over centuries put forth by misinformed muslims with maybe an agenda of their own.. Who knows it may be a possibility.

    I can can understand it would have been a great shock for you to be told so bluntly that we see Jesus as God, I would have hoped the monks would have taken the time to explain why this is so, if they did, then maybe they did not do so as well as they could have or it could just be that it is a concept that a muslim is just not equipped to deal with.. I can appreciate that as it goes against all you have ever been told and is contrary to Islam. I commend you for your study of the Bible, yet without spiritual guidance I feel it a difficult task to come to full understanding as you already must see it from another perspective and it will be impossible for you to not compare it with your accepted truth.. The Quran. I say this because it is what I find personally when reading the Quran... Much does not make sense to me and I find it difficult to see it as a final revelation after the Bible because on so many issues it appears to me to be diametrically opposed to what I know from the Bible. This is a daunting task to make sense for each I feel and that's why I see interfaith dialogue as important to find a common ground where we can exist in friendship.

    I will endeavour to answer your queries on the Godhead or divinity of Christ to the best of my ability and understanding. Maybe you would like to start a thread accordingly.

    Peace upon you.

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Is Christianity the religion of peace and love or the religion of revenge and terror?

Is Christianity the religion of peace and love or the religion of revenge and terror?