Is Christianity the religion of peace and love or the religion of revenge and terror?

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Is Christianity the religion of peace and love or the religion of revenge and terror?

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Thread: Is Christianity the religion of peace and love or the religion of revenge and terror?

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by عثمان أحمد الشيخ View Post
    Dear Pandora,
    -- I would like to say that Jesus (pbth) used to pray prostrating putting his face on dust with all humbly and surrender to the Almighty Allah .Have you ever followed him in your praying ?.Have you ever tasted the thrill of prostration to the Almighty Allah who no one has seen him or heard his voice ?. It is the true happiness to do that. The messenger of Allah "Muhammad" (pbuh) taught us that when the slave is prostrating , he is being in the closest state to Allah.
    It is wrong of you to claim to know how Jesus prayed, do you know how many verses in the Bible refer to prostration before The Lord? Or do you just use the example from Matthew...

    ~ 39 Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”~

    you are also wrong and intrusive into a personal privacy as to how I choose to commune in prayer with God. Jesus taught we do not make a "show" of praying, that our prayers are a private matter between oneself and God the father. In this we may choose to kneel, we may choose to bow our heads or we may choose to prostrate.
    Some Biblical prophets heard Gods voice.. And YHWH also revealed in part His glory to them. You know nothing about the closeness of Christians to God, we live our life through the guidance of His Holy Spirit and by the truth of His Word, Jesus. If we don't ask ourselves each day what can we do to the glory of God? Then we are lacking.. I am here now, by Gods will.. Because the still small voice of The Lord my God tells me to be true to my heart and try and bring understanding to others. By understanding I do not mean.. Think as I do.. Or take up thy cross and follow Christ, only God decides such things, for small people like ourselves we can only share the Word. If nothing else we reach a better understanding of each other and can meet as friends with a shared love of God between us.


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    -- In regards to what you quoted from John 1 /5/10/14/15/17 to prove that Jesus (pbuh) is Allah ( God Forbid ) .What you quoted are outside the text ( as you always say ) , But trust me if anyone reads all these chapters with his simple own mind and easy own thought away from the complicated thoughts of his fathers and his priests he will discover that these chapters deny the divinity of Jesus .Jesus (pbuh) was so clear to prove his humanity. He (pbuh) was talking about two, he and Allah the only true God who sent him. I hope that you reread them but without any background or any preivous ideas.I can comment on every chapter if you would like.
    No offence to your good self but nothing would be proved or gained by any commentary you could offer on Bible verses, as a Muslim you cannot hope to understand them in the same way as a Christian does. If you think we sit around and wait for some priest to come along and interpret them for us, then you are mistaken. The Bible is not all there is to God. Quite frankly I find it astounding that you feel you can offer a greater understanding of scriptures you have scant regard for and believe to be corrupt. Have you noticed I do not criticise or judge the Quran? Even though there is much that seems wrong to me and at odds with a Holy God. I have more respect than that, because the Quran is your Holy scripture and if you as muslims believe it to be divine then that's good enough for me.

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    -- In fact a lot of priests deceive you and plant unreasonable ideas in your mind (Taking the chance that you look at them as angles) as they do in your ancestors when they persuaded them that they can buy parts of lands in Paradise versus taking their money. Historically that was known as " Deeds of forgiveness ". Their immorality reached to persuade people to buy land in Paradise for their dead relatives.
    who are you talking about here? ... Catholics? Do your research not all Christian denominations hold to such nonsensical ideas. In fact I would be very surprised if today's Catholics hold to such nonsensical ideas and would not be so foolhardy to believe that money can hold any sway when it comes to Paradise.

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    -- Excuse me . I will tell you something in present . I saw a video about a big priest who wanted to persuade a large audience of Christians that The Holy Quran admits that Jesus is god . What did the priest do ? . The Holy Quran talked about the Miracles that God gave to Christ (pbuh) .Allah said :-
    110. Then will Allah say: "O Jesus the son of Mary! Recount My favour to Thee and to Thy mother. Behold! I strengthened Thee with the holy spirit, so that Thou Didst speak to the people In childhood and In maturity. Behold! I taught Thee the Book and Wisdom, the law and the Gospel and Behold! Thou makest out of clay, As it Were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and Thou breathest into it and it becometh a bird by My leave, and Thou healest those born blind, and the lepers, by My leave. and Behold! Thou bringest forth the dead by My leave. and Behold! I did restrain the Children of Israel from (violence to) Thee when Thou Didst Show them the Clear Signs, and the unbelievers among them said: 'This is nothing but evident magic.'(5/110)
    -- The priest read these verses but he hided or removed the phrase (by my leave ) .Then he said to people : " Allah only who is able to do that , then Jesus is God" . Of course , the man deceived all people because Jesus (pbuh) did all these deeds by the leave of Allah only.
    to be continued
    I would like to see such a video. Because I find it odd that any Christian priest... (I'm thinking he must be catholic, as they use the term priest.) that firstly, would use the Quran at all in reference to Jesus because there is very little in the Quran about Jesus. Secondly, that any Christian priest would use something from a gnostic gospel, that Christians believe lacked provenance and was highly likely that it had nothing at all to do with Jesus. I admit the fact that this fable does in a way offer proof of the divinity of Jesus, even with the words.. ~By my leave ~... Left in. as it shows Jesus creating life, Christians believe only God can create life. Jesus raised the dead on many occasions but He never created life.. Because He knew that creation is in the hands of God the Father only.

    Peace to you.

  2. #32
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    We use the term children of God because those saved through Jesus and accept the in dwelling of the Holy Spirit thus becoming part of the living Gospel of Christ Jesus become children of God.
    --- You are the child of God .Of course it is not a physical union it is a metaphorically union . Is there any third union? of course no. Then all people are sons of God metaphorically.Why do you make Jesus (pbuh) God although he never claim that. You said Adam was created but Jesus was born .What about those who was called "son of God" or "sons of God " and were born from a woman as Jesus . Why do not you call them Gods ?.What about those who called "sons of God " and was born from God ?
    *And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.(Luk 1/35)
    *Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.(John 1 3/9)
    *Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.(Joh 5/1)
    -- What is the relationship between Jesus and Allah. Is he God equals the father? Is the Holy Spirit God also.Is Jesus the Holy Sprit or he is the father.Are they a family as one of the priests said? .What is task of every God? Please teach me if you can.Who do you worship the father or the son or the holy spirit ?
    "( رَبَّنَا لا تُؤَاخِذْنَا إِنْ نَسِينَا أَوْ أَخْطَأْنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تَحْمِلْ عَلَيْنَا إِصْرًا كَمَا حَمَلْتَهُ عَلَى الَّذِينَ مِنْ قَبْلِنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تُحَمِّلْنَا مَا لا طَاقَةَ لَنَا بِهِ وَاعْفُ عَنَّا وَاغْفِرْ لَنَا وَارْحَمْنَا أَنْتَ مَوْلانَا فَانْصُرْنَا عَلَى الْقَوْمِ الْكَافِرِينَ) (2/286)"


  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by عثمان أحمد الشيخ View Post
    --- You are the child of God .Of course it is not a physical union it is a metaphorically union . Is there any third union? of course no. Then all people are sons of God metaphorically.Why do you make Jesus (pbuh) God although he never claim that. You said Adam was created but Jesus was born .What about those who was called "son of God" or "sons of God " and were born from a woman as Jesus . Why do not you call them Gods ?.What about those who called "sons of God " and was born from God ?
    *And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.(Luk 1/35)
    *Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.(John 1 3/9)
    *Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.(Joh 5/1)
    My friend, I already explained what the unique son ship of Jesus means to Christians, I also gave you a link for further elaboration. I humbly request you read the parable from Jesus taught and tell me what you infer from it...

    'A man planted a vineyard. He put a wall around it, dug a pit for the winepress and built a watchtower. Then he rented the vineyard to some farmers and went away on a journey. At harvest time he sent a servant to the tenants to collect from them some of the fruit of the vineyard. But they seized him, beat him and sent him away empty-handed. Then he sent another servant to them; they struck this man on the head and treated him shamefully. He sent still another, and that one they killed. He sent many others; some of them they beat, others they killed. He had one left to send, a son, whom he loved. He sent him last of all, saying, 'They will respect my son.' But the tenants said to one another, 'This is the heir. Come, let's kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.' So they took him and killed him, and threw him out of the vineyard. What then will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and kill those tenants and give the vineyard to others. Haven't you read this scripture: 'The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone; the Lord has done this, and it is marvelous in our eyes?' Then they looked for a way to arrest him because they knew he had spoken the parable against them. But they were afraid of the crowd; so they left him and went away.' (Mark 12:1-12)

    Maybe this link will explain Christianity better than I am obviously doing..

    http://christianityexplained.net/exp...uslims/12.html

    Quote
    -- What is the relationship between Jesus and Allah. Is he God equals the father? Is the Holy Spirit God also.Is Jesus the Holy Sprit or he is the father.Are they a family as one of the priests said? .What is task of every God? Please teach me if you can.Who do you worship the father or the son or the holy spirit ?
    I feel you already know my answer here, which would necessitate a discussion on the triune concept of God and as muslims are unable to grasp this concept I see very little point in entering such dialogue as it will lead no where. You know God has no equal.. So why would you say such? Christians believe that God, His Word and His Spirit exist in loving community. There is no task for every god... As there is only ONE GOD.. God the father is the creator and divine power, His word and His Spirit both of which He uses to commune with mankind are of God and as such do not act independently of Gods divine will. I really can't make it any clearer and really have no wish to teach you anything you are not wanting or needing to know, as a Muslim it should not impact upon your person at all how a Christian knows God. You just need to understand that it is how God has chosen to reveal Himself to us. You have chosen not to believe what Jesus said about Himself and have refused His gift, that is a choice you make and the consequences of which you will reap upon yourself. It will not impact upon my person. Yet I do wish for you to achieve redemption and pray your soul will also find peace.

    A Christians first prayer of the day starts thus....

    Our Father, which art in heaven, hallowed be your name....

    Who do you think we pray to????

    Im tired and frustrated that my posts take so long to appear on the forum, whereas the posts of other members don't seem to take so long to "vet". I have been here long enough for people to realise I do not wish to cause dissent, I would never knowingly cause offence and if I did offend anyone I would sincerely apologise. It is not in my nature to use foul language and I always strive to be polite and respectful.
    I guess I may be just getting tired..

    Peace and blessings to you.

  4. #34
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    Where did God state which day was to be the sabbath? God says six days we work on the seventh it is reserved for God. Most Christians equate "Lord's Day" ( Sunday) with "Sabbath", this is kept in commemoration of the resurrection of Christ, it is often celebrated with the Eucharist. For many it is the day of rest, and of communal worship in remembrance of Resurrection Day.
    -- God imposed Saturday as a day of rest and forbidden to work in it. God sanctified that day. The word "Saturday " is repeated in the Old Testament and in the Old Testament 94 times . But it was written "Sabbath" in the English version . It was known that it means "Saturday" till now . God said in the Bible :
    See, for that the LORD hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.(Exo 16/29)
    Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.(Exo31/14)
    12 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee.
    13 Six days thou shalt labor, and do all thy work:
    14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son,(Deu 5/12-14)
    -- The Christ adopted that day also because he said :" Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.(Mat 5/17) and that is found in the New Testament.
    "( رَبَّنَا لا تُؤَاخِذْنَا إِنْ نَسِينَا أَوْ أَخْطَأْنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تَحْمِلْ عَلَيْنَا إِصْرًا كَمَا حَمَلْتَهُ عَلَى الَّذِينَ مِنْ قَبْلِنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تُحَمِّلْنَا مَا لا طَاقَةَ لَنَا بِهِ وَاعْفُ عَنَّا وَاغْفِرْ لَنَا وَارْحَمْنَا أَنْتَ مَوْلانَا فَانْصُرْنَا عَلَى الْقَوْمِ الْكَافِرِينَ) (2/286)"


  5. #35
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    Dear Pandora,
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    Please do not imply that we see "son" as actual. This is blasphemy... And I am not happy with that. I do not understand why the Quran seemingly misrepresents Jesus as son of God, and implies a physical union. Which is abhorrent to Christians.
    --- I did not say that it is a physical union. Please tell me .How do you understand the phrase " son of God".What does that mean?.I said that any one that is righteous, devout and pious is called that he was born in Allah and is called " the son of God" . You do not accept that .What you accept? Why do Christians consider him a God although the Book says that no one had seen God and no one has heard his voice?.What about all people that were called " sons of God" Are they all Gods ? . Turst me I do not want to make you angry. Only I want to understand. Religions based on logic and mind. I do not accept something that contradict with mind and logic.Thank you and may Allah guide me and you to the straight way.
    "( رَبَّنَا لا تُؤَاخِذْنَا إِنْ نَسِينَا أَوْ أَخْطَأْنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تَحْمِلْ عَلَيْنَا إِصْرًا كَمَا حَمَلْتَهُ عَلَى الَّذِينَ مِنْ قَبْلِنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تُحَمِّلْنَا مَا لا طَاقَةَ لَنَا بِهِ وَاعْفُ عَنَّا وَاغْفِرْ لَنَا وَارْحَمْنَا أَنْتَ مَوْلانَا فَانْصُرْنَا عَلَى الْقَوْمِ الْكَافِرِينَ) (2/286)"


  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by عثمان أحمد الشيخ View Post
    Dear Pandora,

    --- I did not say that it is a physical union. Please tell me .How do you understand the phrase " son of God".What does that mean?.I said that any one that is righteous, devout and pious is called that he was born in Allah and is called " the son of God" . You do not accept that .What you accept? Why do Christians consider him a God although the Book says that no one had seen God and no one has heard his voice?.What about all people that were called " sons of God" Are they all Gods ? . Turst me I do not want to make you angry. Only I want to understand. Religions based on logic and mind. I do not accept something that contradict with mind and logic.Thank you and may Allah guide me and you to the straight way.
    Quote
    Why do Christians consider him a God
    Dear friend, please stop this nonsense and don't say such things. Jesus was never viewed as A god by any Christian ever. The fact that you continue with this fallacy despite being told time and time again that Christians believe in ONE God, that is YHWH, God of the Bible and all the prophets, means I am failing here to explain things clearly enough, may hap the fault is mine and my linguistic skills are not up to the task, or maybe you cannot allow yourself to understand this fact.

    What are you talking about? ... I don't accept that we are all sons of God and indeed nations were also sons of God.. Where did I say I do not accept this? I stated there are many instances of the term son of God used in the Bible referring to many if not all believers in the One God. I also stated that we see a case for the UNIQUE son ship of Jesus in the Bible. I also attached some links which I thought would explain better than I could.. As obviously I was not clear enough. I will attach some more in the hope that you may read them and it will clarify things better than I am able to do.

    http://www.icr.org/home/resources/re...lybegottenson/

    http://www.arabicbible.com/for-musli...r-muslims.html

    http://christianityexplained.net/exp...uslims/12.html

    And friend, you do never make me angry. Do not think that. You stick with your logic, if you believe God can be found within the bounds of human logic, then I am happy for you. Personally I believe God is far greater than we can ever know apart from how He chooses to reveal Himself to us in ways we can understand.

    Peace upon you.

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    Dear friend, please stop this nonsense and don't say such things. Jesus was never viewed as A god by any Christian ever. The fact that you continue with this fallacy despite being told time and time again that Christians believe in ONE God, that is YHWH, God of the Bible and all the prophets, means I am failing here to explain things clearly enough, may hap the fault is mine and my linguistic skills are not up to the task, or maybe you cannot allow yourself to understand this fact.
    Dear friend Pandora,
    --Thank you for your message .I testify that you are very polite and respectful .I am sorry that you felt tired and frustrated. But excuse me I am not the cause of that but you who started the discussion and you who can end it. The matter is not who win and who lose . Consider that you are the winner and I am the loser.The matter is more dangerous than that.It is the dogma .Who do you worship ? The only true God that Jesus himself worshipped and prostrated to him only? .The God of Jews and Muslims.The God of Nooh. Ibraham,Jacob,Ismael. Izak. Moses,Jesus and Muhammad (pbu them all)..Or the God of the Bible who is three persons in one , or one in three persons ( Trinity) that the Father is God but he is not the son or the Holy Spirit .The Son is God but he is not the father or the Holy Spirit .The Holy Spirit is God but he is not the father or the son But they are all one . How do triangulation equals monotheism?.Triangulation means three and monotheism means one. How can three = one or one = three ?
    -- No one in Christianity even the Pope himself can explain (trinity)
    --- Jesus himself (pbuh) worshipped the only God of Jews ,Ibraham ,Jacob and Muhammad (pbu them).Your book says that :
    (John 8/40) But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
    41Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
    42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
    54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
    --- In these verses Jesus (pbuh) proclaimed a resounding high that he is a man that told Jews the truth.When Jews said "we have one God", he blamed them saying that they should have loved him because he came from that God as a prophet.In the third verse he said that his God (who is the same God of the Jews ).honoured him. Then Jesus worshipped the only true God of Nooh,Ibraham,Jacob,Mosses ,Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them all ).Why did Christians deviated on worshipping the only true God .The God of all messengers and prophets . They invented what is called "trinity)" that no nation had done before. Please read the debate and the dialogue beween Arius who beleived that Jesus is a man and he never been God and Athanasius who believed that Jesus equals the father in the Council of Nicea which was held in 19 July 325 where they made Jesus God for the first time.Jesus is innocent of that (peace be upon him)
    "( رَبَّنَا لا تُؤَاخِذْنَا إِنْ نَسِينَا أَوْ أَخْطَأْنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تَحْمِلْ عَلَيْنَا إِصْرًا كَمَا حَمَلْتَهُ عَلَى الَّذِينَ مِنْ قَبْلِنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تُحَمِّلْنَا مَا لا طَاقَةَ لَنَا بِهِ وَاعْفُ عَنَّا وَاغْفِرْ لَنَا وَارْحَمْنَا أَنْتَ مَوْلانَا فَانْصُرْنَا عَلَى الْقَوْمِ الْكَافِرِينَ) (2/286)"


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    Quote Originally Posted by عثمان أحمد الشيخ View Post
    Dear friend Pandora,
    --Thank you for your message .I testify that you are very polite and respectful .I am sorry that you felt tired and frustrated. But excuse me I am not the cause of that but you who started the discussion and you who can end it. The matter is not who win and who lose . Consider that you are the winner and I am the loser.
    Friend, I assure you... You are not the cause of my being tired and frustrated. It is the difficulty I have compiling posts and the length of time it takes to post anything. Everything takes so long to load with this site, yet I do not have this problem with other websites. Also I guess, I get the impression that any information I provide is largely ignored, which means we forever circle each other repeating what has already been said. :) I agree this is not about winning or losing that doesn't bother me and is not my aim. I just seek clarity and hopefully to dispel misunderstandings about my belief as a Christian. It appears Muslims are fond of telling Christians what Christians belief but really it is more your interpretation of what you think we believe.. If that makes sense :) it does rather appear that I am banging my head against a brick wall in this respect and muslims are quite happy in viewing Christians with the labels they themselves have attached to us and there is no real interest in clarity.

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    The matter is more dangerous than that.It is the dogma .Who do you worship ? The only true God that Jesus himself worshipped and prostrated to him only? .The God of Jews and Muslims.The God of Nooh. Ibraham,Jacob,Ismael. Izak. Moses,Jesus and Muhammad (pbu them all)..Or the God of the Bible who is three persons in one , or one in three persons ( Trinity) that the Father is God but he is not the son or the Holy Spirit .The Son is God but he is not the father or the Holy Spirit .The Holy Spirit is God but he is not the father or the son But they are all one . How do triangulation equals monotheism?.Triangulation means three and monotheism means one. How can three = one or one = three ?
    -- No one in Christianity even the Pope himself can explain (trinity)
    Now I can once again repeat myself by stating I.. As a Christian do worship the ONE True God, that God is YHWH, God of the BIBLE and of all the Prophets and Christ Jesus. I could ask you which God do you believe you worship... And is Allah the same God as YHWH? I sincerely hope He is, because my dear friend if you do not see we share the same ONE True God then truly... I cannot see we have anything to discuss.

    I do not see that your inability to understand the concept of the trinity, or indeed the Popes inability to explain it.. Or indeed anyone's efforts to ensure God fits within the bounds of our human logic the better to understand Him... Is any kind of big problem that has much baring on mans ever seeking relationship with God. God exists eternally weather we believe or how we choose to interpret that belief, the world turns the same.. By Gods grace.

    Quote
    --- Jesus himself (pbuh) worshipped the only God of Jews ,Ibraham ,Jacob and Muhammad (pbu them).Your book says that :
    (John 8/40) But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
    41Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
    42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
    54 Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me; of whom ye say, that he is your God:
    --- In these verses Jesus (pbuh) proclaimed a resounding high that he is a man that told Jews the truth.When Jews said "we have one God", he blamed them saying that they should have loved him because he came from that God as a prophet.In the third verse he said that his God (who is the same God of the Jews ).honoured him. Then Jesus worshipped the only true God of Nooh,Ibraham,Jacob,Mosses ,Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them all ).Why did Christians deviated on worshipping the only true God .The God of all messengers and prophets . They invented what is called "trinity)" that no nation had done before. Please read the debate and the dialogue beween Arius who beleived that Jesus is a man and he never been God and Athanasius who believed that Jesus equals the father in the Council of Nicea which was held in 19 July 325 where they made Jesus God for the first time.Jesus is innocent of that (peace be upon him)
    I find it odd you choose the Gospel of John to seek to prove Jesus was nothing more than a man, when the very nature of the Gospel of John is concerned with explaining the divinity of Jesus, through the words, deeds and teachings of Jesus Himself. It differs from the three synoptic Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke in this respect. If you took the time to read more of John you would see far from proving Jesus as a mere mortal man... It does in fact seek to prove the opposite. I attach a greater portion from John which when you see the short excerpts you used are seen in context they offer a different perspective,

    Dispute Over Whose Children Jesus’ Opponents Are


    31 To the Jews who had believed him, Jesus said, “If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. 32 Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
    33 They answered him, “We are Abraham’s descendants and have never been slaves of anyone. How can you say that we shall be set free?”
    34 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. 35 Now a slave has no permanent place in the family, but a son belongs to it forever. 36 So if the Son sets you free, you will be free indeed. 37 I know that you are Abraham’s descendants. Yet you are looking for a way to kill me, because you have no room for my word. 38 I am telling you what I have seen in the Father’s presence, and you are doing what you have heard from your father.”
    39 “Abraham is our father,” they answered.
    “If you were Abraham’s children,” said Jesus, “then you would do what Abraham did. 40 As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. 41 You are doing the works of your own father.”
    “We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”
    42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. 43 Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. 44 You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45 Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46 Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me? 47 Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.”


    Jesus’ Claims About Himself


    48 The Jews answered him, “Aren’t we right in saying that you are a Samaritan and demon-possessed?”
    49 “I am not possessed by a demon,” said Jesus, “but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. 50 I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. 51 Very truly I tell you, whoever obeys my word will never see death.”
    52 At this they exclaimed, “Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that whoever obeys your word will never taste death. 53 Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?”
    54 Jesus replied, “If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55 Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and obey his word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.”
    57 “You are not yet fifty years old,” they said to him, “and you have seen Abraham!”
    58 “Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!” 59 At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

    I quoted a link to the entire content of discussion on the council of Nicea, it was rather lengthy, I have no reason to go through it all again. The trinity was not "invented" at Nicea, the council was to discuss mainly the divinity of Christ Jesus. When you says things like ~ Christians deviated on worshipping the only true God ~ I have to say I find that an inaccurate assessment and also quite hurtful. However, I know you do say such out of malice and only say what you believe is true according to what you have been taught.

    Peace and Gods blessings upon you.

  9. #39
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    Christians believe in ONE God, that is YHWH, God of the Bible and all the prophets, means I am failing here to explain things clearly enough, may hap the fault is mine and my linguistic skills are not up to the task, or maybe you cannot allow yourself to understand this fact.
    -- I think that Christians prefer rest and relaxation to research and making the necessary effort, especially in matters of faith. I am wondering of what you say that you worship one only God. Call God what you want " Allah" " God" "YHWH" but be sure that He is the only true God that Jesus himself invited you to worship. The God of Nooh ,Ibraham,Isaak,Jaccb .Moses ,Jesus and Muhammad (peace be upon them all) . Was Ibraham worshipping the God of The Bible who is "The father, the Son and the Holy Spirit". Was Moses worshipping that God? Was Muhammad worshipping the God of the Bible ? If so you are on the straight way?. If not you are worshipping another God Jesus himself did not know.
    -- We Muslims , worship the only true God of that universe. The only creator of that world. The only true God who sent all these great prophets and messengers.with one message . To teach people that " There is no God but God (Allah)" He has no son, no wife ,no partner,no one equals him and no one likens him.No one has heard his voice and no one has seen him. Muhammad (pbuh) did not come with a new religion "Islam" .We are on the religion of the father of prophets and messengers Abraham.. The word "Islam" means "peace" in Arabic.Also it means "The complete submission to the will of Allah and being perfect obedient to him.Doing his orders and his instructions (which are always good and benefit for all humanity) and avoiding his prohibitions (which are always harmful for all humanity). . Allah ordered us to follow the religion of Abraham .He says in the Holy Quran:
    "Abraham was indeed a model Devoutly obedient to Allah, (and) true in faith, and he joined not gods with Allah: (120) He showed his gratitude for the favours of Allah Who chose him and guided him to a straight way. (121) And We gave him Good in this world, and he will be, in the Hereafter, in the ranks of the righteous. (122) So We have taught thee (Muhammad) the inspired (message), "Follow the ways of Abraham the True in faith, and he joined not gods with Allah." (16/120-123)


    125. Who can be better In Religion than one who submits His whole self to Allah, does good, and follows the way of Abraham the true In Faith? for Allah did take Abraham for a friend.(4/125)

    95. Say: "(Allah) speaketh the truth: follow the Religion of Abraham, the sane In faith; He was not of the Pagans." (3/95)


    161. Say: "Verily, My Lord hath guided me to a way that is straight,- a Religion of right,- the path (trod) by Abraham the true In Faith, and He (certainly) joined not gods with Allah."(6/161)

    130. And who turns away from the Religion of Abraham but such As debase their souls with folly? Him we chose and rendered pure In This world: and He will be In the Hereafter In the ranks of the Righteous.
    131. Behold! His Lord said to him: "Bow (thy will to Me):" He said: "I bow (my will) to the Lord and Cherisher of the Universe."

    132. And This was the legacy that Abraham left to His sons, and so did Jacob; "Oh My sons! Allah hath chosen the Faith for you; then die not except In the Faith of Islam."

    --- Let us see the commandments of Jacob (peace be upon him) to his family before death:
    133. Were ye witnesses when death appeared before Jacob? Behold, He said to His sons: "What will ye worship after me?" They said: "We shall worship Thy Allah and the Allah of Thy fathers, of Abraham, Isma'il and Isaac,- the one (true) Allah. to Him we bow (in Islam)."

    --- I do not doubt for a moment that Jesus (pbuh) was a great model in his submission , his Humility and his obedience to the will of Allah (pbth).This is evident in his words in the length and width of the Gospel. He uttered it high resonant :
    :"And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent JOH-17-3"
    -- Jesus (pbuh) testifies that there is no God but God,and Jesus is the prophet of God.
    -- His brother Muhammad (pbuh) testifies that there is no God but God and Muhammad is the prophet of God. This is the first rule of the five rules that Islam was built on.
    -- In Islam all prophets and messengers are brothers.We believe in them all.We make no difference between them.Allah taught us that in his Holy Book the Quran saying :
    136. Say ye: "We believe In Allah, and the Revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: we make no difference between one and another of them: and we bow to Allah (in Islam)."(2/136)
    -- Peace bo to you every time.And may Allah help you and guide me and you to the straight way.The way of all prophets and messengers.

    to be continued
    "( رَبَّنَا لا تُؤَاخِذْنَا إِنْ نَسِينَا أَوْ أَخْطَأْنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تَحْمِلْ عَلَيْنَا إِصْرًا كَمَا حَمَلْتَهُ عَلَى الَّذِينَ مِنْ قَبْلِنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تُحَمِّلْنَا مَا لا طَاقَةَ لَنَا بِهِ وَاعْفُ عَنَّا وَاغْفِرْ لَنَا وَارْحَمْنَا أَنْتَ مَوْلانَا فَانْصُرْنَا عَلَى الْقَوْمِ الْكَافِرِينَ) (2/286)"


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    I also stated that we see a case for the UNIQUE son ship of Jesus in the Bible
    -- How can Jesus the UNIQUE son of God while Israel was the firstborn son of God as in (Exo 4/22).Soloman was a son of God. Peace makers were "sons of God".
    -- It is common in the Bible the phrases "son of God" "sons of God" "Was born in Allah" "son of devil". Of course they are not physical phrases.They are metaphorical phrases.Such as we say 'the son of desert" means he lived in desert and he loves living in it.The son of Nile" " the son of stage ". The son of God" means that he loves God and he is always sincere in obeying him.
    -- Why do Christians insist on raising Jesus (pbuh) to the degree of divinity although all prophets and messengers of Allah were men.Does Allah send angels or gods to mankind to guide them to worship Allah? Why do they insist to make him God or part of God although he said that he is a man and a son of man 63 times in length and width of the Gospel? Does that satisfy Jesus himself ? Did that happen the longevity of this universe?
    --- You said that I want to make Jesus mere man only. Yes , he is a man and a son of man as he himself called himself. Do you think being a man that reduces the high rank and value of Jesus (pbuh)?!!. By Allah No.
    -- Please,read about the people of Noah who have mocked him .They wondered how Allah sends a man .Allah told us about them saying :-

    23. (Further, we sent a long line of prophets for your instruction). we sent Noah to His people: He said, "O My people! worship Allah. ye have no other god but Him. will ye not fear (Him)?"

    24. The Chiefs of the unbelievers among His people said: "He is no more than a man like yourselves: His wish is to assert His superiority over you: if Allah had wished (to send messengers), He could have sent down angels; never did we Hear such a thing (as He says), among Our ancestors of old.(23/23-24)

    -- Allah (praise be to him) replied to them saying:-
    94. What kept men back from belief when guidance came to them, was nothing but this: They said, "Has Allah sent a man (Like us) to be (His) Messenger."
    95. Say, "If there were settled, on earth, angels walking about In peace and quiet, we should certainly have sent them down from the heavens an angel for an apostle."(17/94-95)

    -- I am wondering .What is the highest rank and value can man reach to in that universe? The president of the biggest and the richest country,or the president of all that world. Allah (pbth) honoured and raised the rank and value of those men in that world and in the hereafter . Allah chose them , granted them the grace of the closeness to him ,and used them as his messengers and prophets. In the hereafter they will be in the highest place in Paradise.What rank is better than that?. Oh Allah , grant us your forgiveness ,your mercy and your satisfaction and collect us with them in paradise.Ameen,Ameen.
    "( رَبَّنَا لا تُؤَاخِذْنَا إِنْ نَسِينَا أَوْ أَخْطَأْنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تَحْمِلْ عَلَيْنَا إِصْرًا كَمَا حَمَلْتَهُ عَلَى الَّذِينَ مِنْ قَبْلِنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تُحَمِّلْنَا مَا لا طَاقَةَ لَنَا بِهِ وَاعْفُ عَنَّا وَاغْفِرْ لَنَا وَارْحَمْنَا أَنْتَ مَوْلانَا فَانْصُرْنَا عَلَى الْقَوْمِ الْكَافِرِينَ) (2/286)"


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Is Christianity the religion of peace and love or the religion of revenge and terror?

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Is Christianity the religion of peace and love or the religion of revenge and terror?

Is Christianity the religion of peace and love or the religion of revenge and terror?