It seems our posts are irrelevant to the thread topic. Anyway, what you wrote can be understood only through a Christian perspective, not broader than this limit. Still those conceptions are made up because we do not find Jesus anywhere in Bible mentioning Adam and the sin, we have plenty of crucifixions and disobedience to God, why Jesus' crucifixion makes all other crucifixions and sins insignificant? the Jews (or Romans) crucified him for different reasons from what Jesus died for, did Jesus say that he is going to die for "atonement" of the sin so that God can reconcile with mankind? those and many other questions rise and neither Bible nor Christian theologians have a clear and satisfactory answer. it is clear that those ideas and doctrines never mentioned in Bible but are mere man made and inserted into Christianity.
Still what you wrote can be understood if there were verses in Bible confirm it, or Jesus himself state it, but we do not have
Peace to you
Last edited by هشيم; 11-02-2014 at 02:34 AM.
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
قل هو الله احد * الله الصمد * لم يلد و لم يولد * و لم يكن له كفوا احد
Dis : " Lui, Dieu, est Un ! * Dieu est le Soutien universel ! * Il n'engendre pas et Il n'est pas engendré, * et Il n'a pas d'égal. "
Well of courses it is written from a Christian prospective, that's a given .. Moi being a Christian after all... So I guess it is fair to say that it would be easily understood from the same prospective. I do however take exception to your "man made" inference.. And yet it is your prerogative to freely hold such views and freely express them. Of course I see things differently.. Whereas Jesus never mentioned Adam and Eve in more than passing as first man and woman created. We are left with no doubt as to Jesus's mission. There are many references about sin it's importance and the task Jesus was sent to do on our behalf. In Matthew Jesus says he has come to do Gods will, by giving His life for ours. He also says His blood is shed for the remission of our sins, and by accepting this we become part of the new covenant. Jesus often quoted Isaiah.. pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities... The Jews say this refers to the nation of Israel yet when I read these words my heart and soul tells me they refer to Christ Jesus. Sometimes one needs to listen to ones heart and soul.
In Matthew 20:28 Jesus said, “The Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many”
Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
"Surely he took up our infirmities and carried our sorrows, yet we considered him stricken by God, smitten by him, and afflicted. But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.
For the transgression of my people he was stricken.... Though he had done no violence ... it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer ... the Lord makes his life a guilt offering.... He will bear their iniquities.... He bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors."
There are many verses in the Bible that make this doctrine clear to me, sometimes we need to think beyond the words alone to their deeper meaning. I accept that as a Muslim who sees the Quran as the word of God verbatim it is likely you take words at face value, that is to say the words directly tell you what to understand. For me it is different, but I do not know I could explain how I understand my beliefs in a logical way that would make sense to you... As I know muslims set great store by logic. :) Jesus taught often in parables, these I love to read more than the historical accounts of the scripture because to reach an understanding one has to reach within oneself using ones heart and soul as well as ones mind to gain the meaning... Once gained its like a treasure, and the inner meaning of the words on the page light up your very soul and you carry that light within you, nothing can diminish it. People come to understanding in different ways as we are all different for some we need direct words, some even need scientific proofs of Gods existence before they can deign to believe for others it seems a natural process. Ultimately I believe God reveals His message to us all in ways that we can best understand.
Peace on Gods blessings upon you.
I hope that Allah (praise be to him) guide me to the right way >I hope that Allah does not guide you to the right way.
Originally Posted by pandora
"( رَبَّنَا لا تُؤَاخِذْنَا إِنْ نَسِينَا أَوْ أَخْطَأْنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تَحْمِلْ عَلَيْنَا إِصْرًا كَمَا حَمَلْتَهُ عَلَى الَّذِينَ مِنْ قَبْلِنَا رَبَّنَا وَلا تُحَمِّلْنَا مَا لا طَاقَةَ لَنَا بِهِ وَاعْفُ عَنَّا وَاغْفِرْ لَنَا وَارْحَمْنَا أَنْتَ مَوْلانَا فَانْصُرْنَا عَلَى الْقَوْمِ الْكَافِرِينَ) (2/286)"
You can wish such unkindness upon me if you wish, I do not mind. I am content to put my trust in God. :)
Originally Posted by عثمان أحمد الشيخ
I shall continue to love you as my brother or sister in humanity and hope God blesses you in your life.... Because that's the way this Christian cookie crumbles ;) :)
May God grant you peace.
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