Thread: Biblical Prophecies on the Advent of Muhammad

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Originally Posted by هشيم

This is a prophetic passage and has nothing to do with (Gods judgement against rebellious nations, primarily Judah and Jerusalem) which the Book of Isaiah. Babylon is concerned not (Kedar, Tema.....)

With all due respect I believe you are wrong in your assumptions. Isaiah prophecies were concerning the wrath of God against rebellious nations.

586 B.C. - Judah (Southern Kingdom) conquered by Babylon. Jerusalem destroyed, including the first Temple, and the Jews exiled to Babylon.

538 B.C. - The exiles return to Jerusalem from Babylon.

The Book of Isaiah was written about 740-680 B.C. Given the historical context and location do you not believe it more logical to believe that Isaiah was referring to Judah and Jerusalem and the conflict with Babylon? Given that this occurred hundreds of years before the birth of Christ Jesus, and given that the latter prophecies of Isaiah dealt with the coming of the Messiah, a title given to Jesus.. Both in the Bible and Quran.. Would it not be reasonable to assume that this prophecy that you believe refers to Mohammed was fulfilled the best part of a thousand years before Mohammed was born in 570.

Again of course you are free to interpret the previous scriptures as you will. Yet if Mohammed was prophesied in the Bible, I believe it would have been clearer, in a work the size and scope of the Bible there would have been more referrals than the mere handful that muslims like to lay claim to. Even these verses have to be seen outside of the biblical context in which they are set to even remotely appear to refer to Mohammed. It just does not seem logical.

Peace.

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Originally Posted by التواقة الى الجنة

(3) Biblical Prophecies on the Advent of
Muhammad , the Prophet of Islam


The Biblical prophecies on the advent of the Prophet Muhammad are evidence of the truth of Islam for people who believe in the Bible.


In Deuteronomy 18,Moses stated that God told him: “I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account.” (Deuteronomy 18:18-19).1


From these verses we conclude that the prophet in this prophecy must have the following three characteristics:


1) That he will be like Moses.


2) That he will come from the brothers of the Israelites, i.e. the Ishmaelites.


3) That God will put His words in to the mouth of this prophet and that he will declare what God commands him.


Let us examine these three characteristics in more depth:

To address this issue of Mohammed being the prophet inferred in Deuteronomy 18 and why it cannot apply to Mohammed, I do not see the need for greater depth as it's quite clear why it clear it cannot be He. If you are to take the bible as your source then you have to see it in biblical context and understand when the book was written who was its target audience and what was it telling them. You cannot apply your own reasonings to make it appear to infer what you wish. Deuteronomy was written primarily for the Israelites. So it does not matter how you take the meaning of "brethren" and so see Mohammed could be brethren to the Israelites through Ishmael... What determines the meaning is how "brethren" is used in the Bible, during that time and who did the term encompass. The term brethren was always used in reference to fellow Israelites, Moses meant that the prophet would come out of the 12 Israelite tribes who were from Isaac not Ishmael, at no point in the Old Testament are the descendants of Ishmael known by the term "brethren" to the Israelites. All of this shows that Muhammad could not be the prophet Moses foretold. The only acceptable, logical context for Moses' words is that "the prophet" must be an Israelite. No non-Israelite can meet the requirement. Muhammad was not an Israelite and thus he could not have fulfilled the conditions Moses set forth. Jesus is the prophet Moses foretold.

Additional implicit requirements to make this prophet "like unto Moses" can be found in the last verses in Deuteronomy 34.10-12:
"And there has not arisen a prophet since in Israel like Moses, (2) whom the Lord knew face to face, none like him for all the (3) signs and wonders which the Lord sent him to do in the land of Egypt, to Pharaoh and to all his servants and to all his land, and for all the mighty power and all the great and terrible deeds which Moses performed in the sight of all Israel." From this I see the requirements thus....

1.. this future prophet is to speak the words that God puts in his mouth.
2.. this future prophet would speak with God face to face
3.. this future prophet would perform miracles, signs, and wonders.

The prophets speaks the words of God...God puts words in mouth... Jesus spoke with God directly, Jesus is Gods word. Mohammed did not receive his revelation from God but through a spirit, believed to be Angel Gabriel. Jesus spoke with God face to face, Jesus showed he had existed with God the father from eternity. Moses also spoke with God face to face. Mohammed did not. Jesus performed miracles, as did Moses, the Quran does not record Mohammed performing any miracles and Mohammed himself denied he was given powers to perform miracles.

One very important similarity between Moses and Jesus was that they each mediated a covenant. Moses was the mediator of the Old Covenant (Testament), Christ of the New Covenant, or Testament. (Exodus 19 and 20, Hebrews 12:24). Muhammad did not bring a covenant. Unless you can tell me of a covenant Mohammed, it appears to me from what I have read that muslims maybe see themselves as following the Abrahamic covenant first made with the children of Israel.
peace.

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Again of course you are free to interpret the previous scriptures as you will.

No, we are not free to do so. Look at this verse from you book:

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Divine Light From Paran

The prophecies of the Bible had even led its followers to that part of the world where the great Prophet was to appear. Thus it was said:

And he said, the Lord came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; and shined forth from Mount Paran and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them. (Deuteronomy 33:2)

We have the same referred to i our Holy Quran. Your Bible, after many stages of disappearance then re-written the mistakes in translation, Allah Almighty wanted these verses to remain untouched so that one day it is going to be a witness to our Prophet and Holy Quran.

Now it seems logical.


Peace

The verse from Holy Quran having the same meaning of (Deuteronomy 33:2) : Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah; and those with him are forceful against the disbelievers, merciful among themselves. You see them bowing and prostrating [in prayer], seeking bounty from Allah and [His] pleasure. Their mark is on their faces from the trace of prostration. That is their description in the Torah. And their description in the Gospel is as a plant which produces its offshoots and strengthens them so they grow firm and stand upon their stalks, delighting the sowers - so that Allah may enrage by them the disbelievers. Allah has promised those who believe and do righteous deeds among them forgiveness and a great reward. (29) Al-Fath

I confess I do not see how you arrive at your conclusion about the same inference being found in both books. I accept that that what is in the Quran does indeed refer to Mohammed, but Deuteronomy 33:2 is not referring to a prophet. The LORD.. Is referring to God Himself... YHWH... Of the Old Testament. This is clear if you take the context of the whole Book into consideration.

And he said, the Lord came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; and shined forth from Mount Paran and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them. (Deuteronomy 33:2)


The only possible way you can claim that Deuteronomy 33:2 is talking about Muhammed is to admit that you believe that Muhammed = God, which all Jews, Christians, and (I should hope) you as a Muslim and indeed all muslims would consider to be blatantly offensive and blasphemous.

Also is it logical to look to verses from previous scriptures you believe to have been changed and tampered with by mankind to seek proof of your own dear prophet. Is not the Quran enough for you?

Peace.

Look Pandora our Holy Quran says:

In the name of Allah, the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful.
Muhammad is not the father of [any] one of your men, but [he is] the Messenger of Allah and last of the prophets. And ever is Allah, of all things, Knowing. (40) Al Ahzab

In the name of Allah, the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful.
And your Lord is most knowing of whoever is in the heavens and the earth. And We have made some of the prophets exceed others [in various ways], and to David We gave the book [of Psalms]. (55) Al Isra


If you ask about "covenant" you can consult this book " by John Andrew Morrow.

And for Prophets and comparing Muhammad to Jesus and Moses (Allah bless them all), Allah dignified and honored our Prophet Muhammad (Allah's blessing and peace be upon him) in many ways, and even his nation (Muslims) have many significant and important honors because of him. we can count more than 90 honoring and tributes to us from Allah that other nations (in the doomsday) envy us. Our Prophet is the prophets, Allah aided him to conquer the infidals, Allah will widespread his religion, millions of Muslims (ask [Allah to confer] blessing upon him and ask [Allah to grant him] peace), Allah honored him with victories and Holy Quran and the AlKursi verse (Which Moses wanted it)........

Peace to you...

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One very important similarity between Moses and Jesus was that they each mediated a covenant.

. Jesus spoke with God directly, Jesus is Gods word. Mohammed did not receive his revelation from God but through a spirit, believed to be Angel Gabriel. Jesus spoke with God face to face, Jesus showed he had existed with God the father from eternity. Moses also spoke with God face to face. Mohammed did not. Jesus performed miracles, as did Moses, the Quran does not record Mohammed performing any miracles and Mohammed himself denied he was given powers to perform miracles.

I can respect your posts (which reflect your belief) in-spite of being far from ours.

Any way when you say:

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the Quran does not record Mohammed performing any miracles and Mohammed himself denied he was given powers to perform miracles.

Our Prophet Muhammad (Allah's blessing and peace be upon him) had many miracles and mentioned in Quran and hadiths. I do not know where "Mohammed himself denied he was given powers to perform miracles"?

1- Holy Quran is his miracle and still there are miracles are hidden between the verses of this holy book who enemies admire before friends.
2- The event of moon split:

In the name of Allah, the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful
The Hour has come near, and the moon has split [in two]. (1) AlQamar

3-Mentioning his victories in holy Quran, Allah's promise to him to widespread his religion.
4-Muhammad (Allah's peace and blessing be upon him) knows many secrets and events.

Of course those happened by Allah's permission, the same to Jesus when Allah refers to his miracles in our Quran:

In the name of Allah, the Entirely Merciful, the Especially Merciful.
And [make him] a messenger to the Children of Israel, [who will say], 'Indeed I have come to you with a sign from your Lord in that I design for you from clay [that which is] like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of Allah. And I cure the blind and the leper, and I give life to the dead - by permission of Allah. And I inform you of what you eat and what you store in your houses. Indeed in that is a sign for you, if you are believers. (49)Al Umran


In addition to many other miracles in Quran and hadiths.

Peace to you

I accept it is wildly held belief that the Quran itself is considered a miracle attributed to Mohammed, although I have trouble viewing it as such because it seems to lack a supernatural element. It is held to be a word from God or Allah if you will and contains no untruths or discrepancy... Did Mohammed not claim when asked if he would perform a miracle as proof to pagan unbelievers that he was simply a messenger?

Say: "Glory to my Lord! Am I aught but a man,- a messenger?"
Qur'an 17:93

Was splitting the moon attributed to Mohammed in the Quran itself? As I understand the Hadith are not of divine nature as per the Quran, and there are thousands to go through some of which are more reliable and authentic than others. You chose out of the hadiths, I imagine you have a criteria to work to, about what is correct. It seems to me that by accepting hadiths about miracles attributed to Mohammed go against what Mohammed claimed about himself. How many of these Hadith had Mohammed ever read for himself to know what was said about him?

I don't know that you have many miracles of Jesus in the Quran, the Bible obviously has a great many, except the clay birds, which could never be attributed to Jesus as it lacked provenance and is to be found in a gnostic "the infant gospel of Thomas" I believe it is. It's strange that it's in the Quran because as miracles go it has no lesson to teach and I would think by its nature raises problems for muslims.

It's like this, you have your Holy Book and your religion and I have mine, they differ on certain points and yet the one thing and for me the most important is they have the same One True God at their core. You know God as Allah I know as YHWH.. One and the same. If you do not believe we worship the same God then we really do not have any else to talk about. I see God has decided how we shall understand Him, our path is chosen for us. Everything else is window dressing.

Peace to you.

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If you ask about "covenant" you can consult this book " by John Andrew Morrow.

you misunderstand me. This book is address the covenants Mohammed made with Christians. I was referring of any covenant God made with Mohammed such as the covenants God made with man in the Bible. The mention of covenants in the Quran that I can find refer to the Old covenants made with Biblical Prophets. That is why I assumed that muslims see themselves under the Abrahamic Covenant.

peace.

Look Pandora we can say the same thing about your Bible:
trinity is never mentioned in your Bible, neither the original sin and the list goes on.
At leas in Quran we have medical, economical...etc miracles that nowadays science proves them. The problem here is that: Christians refuse this truth before trying to comprehend it.

I can say the same thing about your Bible: It lacks clear and obvious texts regarding Trinity. You see it this way that it contains (trinity) (atonement) which in fact they are not there.
Apart from the fact that your Bible is misinterpreted and distorted you have no right to ask Quran to be just like it, because it is a fact that every Divine religion has its own doctrines and way of worshiping Allah (God), simply it is not our way it is Allah's way and desire. Praying in Islam is different from yours and different from the Jews, the same thing your fasting is different from ours and theirs. But I wish this fact does not lead you to reject another divine religion like Islam which Allah the Almighty protected through all these centuries (more than 1400years), at the same time you have more than one copy of Bible and from time to time we hear that another manuscript is discovered. Even each of your theologians differ in giving exact and united explanation to Trinity (which is Christianity’s backbone), but in Islam we all agree upon our main and core believes but may be differ in the minor cases, and the difference is not of great deal and does not effect our main believes.
Your Bible is never trustworthy, it is written a couple of hundred years after Jesus, all of us know that those who wrote Bible never saw Jesus in their lives for one time. The case we have with our hadiths, some are weak, some are fabricated……. and so on. But we Muslims have a belief that even the hadiths are from divine because we have in Quran:

Nor does he speak from [his own] inclination. (3) It is not but a revelation revealed, (4) Al Najm
Yes that is true, if not how our Prophet (Allah’s peace and blessing be upon him) knew that black cumin is good for health? And so many other hadiths.

Sometimes you should know some background of a speech or a phrase you put. Like talking about hadiths, because when you repeat what you listen or write from your Christian point of view it appears an "odd" thing to you, and that does not help you.

So if you argue Islam from a neutral view and as we introduce it to you, you’ll find the truth that we are right, but it seems you always read the articles from you Christianity point of view, that whatever proofs we put in your hands you will find it still not enough and not satisfactory and say “there is still something wrong”.
It rather raises problems to others rather than Muslims. We have scientifically proven facts in Quran. And our Prophet is not without miracles and it is not an ordinary believe we have proofs to this. May be at the time of Jesus people believed in miracles and supernatural elements, the same thing to Moses, and at the time of our Quran the using of wonderful, impressive magnificent language was common, that is why many wonder about the language of Quran which is a miracle itself. Even geographical and medical fact are expressed in such a way.