Bible: Inspired Incoherencies.

Last Post: | == == | Last Post: | == == | Nayer.tanyous Last Post: | == == | Last Post: 99 | == == | : Last Post: ismael-X | == == | Last Post: 555 | == == | Last Post: * * | == == | Nayer.tanyous Last Post: * * | == == | () Last Post: . | == == | ... 20 Last Post: | == == |










Bible: Inspired Incoherencies.

Results 1 to 2 of 2

Thread: Bible: Inspired Incoherencies.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Last Activity
    10:18 AM

    Default Bible: Inspired Incoherencies.

    Bible: Inspired Incoherencies.
    by Ijaz Ahmad

    Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem
    ۡ ٱ ٱٰۡ ٱ ,

    One of the primary arguments that Missionaries use is that the Bible is an inspired word of God, meaning God didnt dictate to the unknown authors what to write, but inspired these authors to write a synoptic (general, but cohesive) story about the worldly ministry of Jesus. The problem with this though is that most Christians dont exactly read all of the Bible. For example, a story which occurs in Matthew would be read and the reference for that similar story is acknowledged (in the footnotes), whether it be in Mark or Luke, however after one has read the story in Matthew and acting under the impression that it would be redundant to read the same story in another Gospel, Christians may simply become content with having just read the story in Matthew, while foregoing the reading of the other Gospels. This is problematic because Christians are indoctrinated with the impression that synoptic means, recalling the same story, albeit from an alternate viewpoint. While linguistically this definition is accurate, it behoves me to remind our Missionary friends as well as Evangelical inerrantists that while Mark, Matthew and Luke (Im excluding John because it gives an entirely variant viewpoint all together) in some way do narrate similar stories their narratives are often conflicting if not incohesive and inconclusive. What we must come to realise, if we truly are seeking the truth in religion is that the Synoptic Gospels arent fully Synoptic, rather they present a myopic view of events surrounding the person and life of Jesus, the Messiah of Israel.

    One of the more popular examples is the conflicting end of the Gospel of Mark, Christians often assume that such a conflict does not affect their doctrine therefore it is useless to discuss it. However, it does indeed affect their doctrine, if we agree with the presumption that God did inspire these 4 writers to complete a synoptic narrative of Jesus ministry where we could expect missing elements of one of the narratives but have the answer in another narrative, how could we account for one narrative thats conflicting in itself. That therefore, presents a doctrinal problem, which manuscript of a select Gospel, did God actually inspire? We could have over 30 versions of Mark, 15 with the short conclusion and 15 with the longer conclusion, which 15 did God inspire? If we take this problem and replicate it among the 4 Gospels we are introduced to an even greater question, which group out of all of these manuscripts actually consist of the inspired word of God? To understand this problem, lets take a look at Prof. Bruce Metzgers analysis of the Ethiopic Manuscripts of the Gospel of Mark:

    Until the latter part of the twentieth century, the status of the last 12 verses of Mark in this version was in doubt, arising from conflicting statements made concerning the evidence of the same manuscripts. Now, however, on the basis of the personal examination of photographs of the ending of the second Gospel in 65 Ethiopic manuscripts, belonging to about 30 different collections, Metzger has ascertained that all of them have the text of Mark 16.9-20. In addition, what is known as the shorter ending of Mark, found in several Greek and Syriac manuscripts, occurs in many Ethiopic manuscripts between 16.8 and 9. Subsequently, William F. Macomber of the Hill Monastic Manuscript Microfilm Library at Collegeville, Minnesota, examined microfilms of 129 additional Ethiopic manuscripts of Mark. Of the total of 194 (65 + 129) manuscripts, all but two (which are lectionaries) have Mark 16.9-20, while 131 contain both the shorter ending and the longer ending. At the end of the Ethiopic version of Acts chapter 28, there is a directive to readers to consult Pauls letters and the Acts of Paul, as well as information about Pauls further activities in Rome. This addition originated as a gloss or colophon that was later integrated into the main text. (The Text of the New Testament: Its Transmission, Corruption and Restoration, Bruce M. Metzger & Bart D. Ehrman, pp 120-121.)

    Prof. Bruce has clearly outlined a major problem for inerrantists and missionary zealots, what started as a colophon (an inscription placed usually at the end of a book, giving facts about its publication), became inspired scripture after a change of hands, through numerous scribes, eventually making its way into the mass population of Christendom. His statements are profound, for when missionary zealots propose that it is absurd that the word of God could have changed while so many people were in possession of it, we really must educate them. Clearly, as stated above, we have extant evidence of this happening, with various codices and manuscripts numbering more than 100, while in mass circulation having two varying endings. While the proposition of such corruption may be laughable to many missionary zealots, the empirical evidence is quite clear, the delusion that this could not happen, is smashed by the manuscripts themselves. Prof. Metzger continues:

    Scholars differ on the question of the date of origin of the Ethiopic version; some argue for a date as early as the fourth century, while others attribute it to the sixth or seventh century. Opinion also differs as to whether the translators made use of a Greek or Syriac original. In any case, it is a curious fact that in the Epistles of Paul the version frequently agrees with p46 with little or no other support. The version also shows evidence of later contamination from Coptic and Arabic texts. Thus, the Ethiopic text eventually became a conglomerate with quite disparate elements standing side by side. Analyses of the earlier form of the Ethiopic version disclose a mixed type of text, predominantly Byzantine in complexion but with occasional agreement with certain early Greek witnesses (p46 and B) against all other witnesses. The little that is known of this version as far as the New Testament is concerned (the Old Testament has been studied more thoroughly) suggests that it deserves far more attention than it has received. The earliest known manuscript, a codex of the four Gospels, dates from the thirteenth century; most other manuscripts are of the fifteenth and succeeding centuries. (The Text of the New Testament: Its Transmission, Corruption and Restoration, Bruce M. Metzger & Bart D. Ehrman, pp 120-121.)

    In summation, what weve read from the above excerpt is that further corruption took place due to Coptic Christian and Arabic Christian transmission of the manuscripts of the New Testament Gospels. Wherein he seals the problem of the manuscript corruption with these words:

    Thus, the Ethiopic text eventually became a conglomerate with quite disparate elements standing side by side. Analyses of the earlier form of the Ethiopic version disclose a mixed type of text, predominantly Byzantine in complexion but with occasional agreement with certain early Greek witnesses (p46 and B) against all other witnesses.

    I personally look forward to the refutation of this article by missionary zealots, where theyll have only one of two conclusions to arrive at:

    (1) Deny the above evidence by reinterpreting the corruption as invalid stories by liberal scholars who lack faith.
    (2) Concur with the corruption but say it doesnt affect doctrine therefore it does not matter.

    To refute position (1), we can simply question their logic and reason. If a person examines two sheets of paper and notices one is unlike the other, does that make such a person, a liberal atheist who only pretends to be Christian? Simple observation and determining a conclusive understanding based on ones observation equates someone to being a fraudulent Christian?

    To refute position (2), the very fact that Christians presuppose that God inspired these men to write, not by dictation but by their own ideas, implies that God wanted the variations to occur and thus sought to confuse rather than guide the masses. If God wanted to guide humanity, then he would have guarded it, protected it. We read from the Old Testament how much emphasis God placed on preserving the Torah:

    Take this Book of the Law and place it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God. There it will remain as a witness against you. Bible : Deuteronomy (31) : 26.

    Protected with great extravagance and attention to detail:

    When the camp is to move, Aaron and his sons are to go in and take down the shielding curtain and put it over the ark of the covenant law. Then they are to cover the curtain with a durable leather, spread a cloth of solid blue over that and put the poles in place.- Bible : Numbers (4) : 5-6.

    Furthermore to state that God wanted variations to occur is also in direct contradiction to the Bible in itself:

    For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints. Bible : 1 Corinthians (14) : 33.

    As I have demonstrated above, we can conclude that either possible argument against Biblical manuscript corruption is not easily disproved, but also irrational and illogical. Only a person of great arrogance and ignorance would continue to contest such a simply demonstrable fact. If we forego the manuscript corruption, can we actually find incoherencies within the Gospels themselves? Yes, however normally at this stage wed encounter counting and genealogical problems from the Old Testament and not the Gospels, such as:

    And those that died in the plague were twenty and four thousand. Bible : Numbers (25) : 9.

    Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand. Bible : 1 Corinthians (10) : 8.

    Or perhaps genealogical errors:

    And the sons of Eliphaz were Teman, Omar, Zepho, and Gatam, and Kenaz. Bible : Genesis (36) : 11.

    These were dukes of the sons of Esau: the sons of Eliphaz the firstborn son of Esau; duke Teman, duke Omar, duke Zepho, duke Kenaz, Duke Korah, duke Gatam, and duke Amalek: these are the dukes that came of Eliphaz in the land of Edom; these were the sons of Adah. Bible : Genesis (36) : 15 16.

    The sons of Eliphaz; Teman, and Omar, Zephi, and Gatam, Kenaz, and Timna, and Amalek. Bible : 1 Chronicles (1) : 36.

    However, these are found in the Old Testament and while some Christians may profess they believe in this Old Testament, they are quick to to deny its applicability in relation to the New Testament which is based on the life of their God, Jesus. With that said, can we find similar inconsistencies, based on the doctrine of Christians? Indeed we can, to begin with, the Bibles epistles are generally discussions by Church leaders on heretics and developing beliefs among the masses, usually they contain directives supposedly based on the life of Jesus, however these directives, although meant for the people, directly contradict the Gospels in themselves, leaving one with an air of confusion. For example, this simple directive in Titus 3:9 :-

    But avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law, because these are unprofitable and useless.

    Seems like a simple directive, not hard to achieve, relatively good advice, except that the Bible here is calling itself unprofitable and useless. To begin with, it directs Christians to avoid genealogies, yet when we read Matthew 1 and Luke 3, we have entire chapters devoted to them:

    This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiahthe son of David, the son of Abraham:

    2 Abraham was the father of Isaac,
    Isaac the father of Jacob,
    Jacob the father of Judah and his brothers,
    3 Judah the father of Perez and Zerah, whose mother was Tamar,
    Perez the father of Hezron,
    Hezron the father of Ram,
    4 Ram the father of Amminadab,
    Amminadab the father of Nahshon,
    Nahshon the father of Salmon,
    5 Salmon the father of Boaz, whose mother was Rahab,
    Boaz the father of Obed, whose mother was Ruth,
    Obed the father of Jesse,
    6 and Jesse the father of King David.
    David was the father of Solomon, whose mother had been Uriahs wife,
    7 Solomon the father of Rehoboam,
    Rehoboam the father of Abijah,
    Abijah the father of Asa,
    8 Asa the father of Jehoshaphat,
    Jehoshaphat the father of Jehoram,
    Jehoram the father of Uzziah,
    9 Uzziah the father of Jotham,
    Jotham the father of Ahaz,
    Ahaz the father of Hezekiah,
    10 Hezekiah the father of Manasseh,
    Manasseh the father of Amon,
    Amon the father of Josiah,
    11 and Josiah the father of Jeconiah[c] and his brothers at the time of the exile to Babylon.
    12 After the exile to Babylon:
    Jeconiah was the father of Shealtiel,
    Shealtiel the father of Zerubbabel,
    13 Zerubbabel the father of Abihud,
    Abihud the father of Eliakim,
    Eliakim the father of Azor,
    14 Azor the father of Zadok,
    Zadok the father of Akim,
    Akim the father of Elihud,
    15 Elihud the father of Eleazar,
    Eleazar the father of Matthan,
    Matthan the father of Jacob,
    16 and Jacob the father of Joseph, the husband of Mary, and Mary was the mother of Jesus who is called the Messiah.
    17 Thus there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Messiah.

    A bit ironic isnt it? Feel free to read Luke 3 here. Although it is well known that Pauls epistles were authored before the Gospels were written, many missionary zealots tend to argue that the Gospels were written by the disciples themselves. Given that Pauls epistles were authored between 50 CE and 65 CE, youd think that atleast one disciple, apostle, presbyter, anyone really (acting under the premise that the 4 Gospels did exist at this time) would have seen this major and blatant inconsistency in New Testament directives. How could the Bible in essence, condemn genealogies (which contradict within themselves) but then have two areas where genealogies are listed, far worse where the New Testament even begins with one? It really does leave a lot of questions unanswered, but what it does do is prove the historical claim that the epistles were written first and then the gospels, by persons who had yet to place them together as a scripture, thus leaving much room for errors.

    Are there instances where Jesus argued about the law? Why yes, there are many, but for the sake of brevity, lets look at one instance, Matthew 22: 41-42, 45 :-

    While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?.. If then David calls him Lord, how can he be his son?

    Notice, Jesus in this instance approaches and asks the Pharisees about laws and genealogies, not only contradicting the directive in Titus 3:9, but whosoever wrote Matthew 22, really had not seen Matthew 1, as it argues Jesus is the son of David:

    This is the genealogy of Jesus the Messiah, the son of David, the son of Abraham.

    Whereas Matthew 22 argues that Jesus is not the son of David, but the Lord of David, Matthew 1 argues that Jesus is the son of David and has no mention of him having lordship over anyone. Its one mistake to have an epistle contradict a gospel, but to have a gospel contradicting itself, let alone the very first verse of the New Testament? Highly appalling to say the least.

    Thus far, Ive demonstrated inconsistencies:

    (1) From within the manuscripts.
    (2) From within New Testament Laws and Directives.
    (3) From within the same Gospel.

    What is left to demonstrate now, is the incoherencies from within the the synoptic narrative, this being between one Gospel and another:

    When Jesus had again crossed over by boat to the other side of the lake, a large crowd gathered around him while he was by the lake. Then one of the synagogue leaders, named Jairus, came, and when he saw Jesus, he fell at his feet. He pleaded earnestly with him, My little daughter is dying. Please come and put your hands on her so that she will be healed and live. So Jesus went with him. - Bible : Mark (5) : 21-24.

    In this version, the girl is dying, she has yet to die, so Jesus is asked to come to heal her so that she will continue to live, Jesus accepts the proposition and proceeds to heal her. However in this version, the girl is already dead and the father asks Jesus to make her live:

    While he was saying this, a synagogue leader came and knelt before him and said, My daughter has just died. But come and put your hand on her, and she will live. Jesus got up and went with him, and so did his disciples. Bible : Matthew (9) : 18-19.

    So we are presented with two conflicting narratives. Is the girl dying and awaiting Jesus to cure her, or has she already died and waiting for Jesus to raise her from the dead? Which narrative is true? Which one did God inspire? If I am to believe that Jesus did a miracle, which miracle in this case did he do? Whats worse is that even the Bibles narration of this story was prohibited by Jesus, after he has cured the girl according to Marks gospel, Jesus gives a clear directive:

    He gave strict orders not to let anyone know about this, and told them to give her something to eat. Bible : Mark (5) : 43.

    If Jesus did in fact speak those words, and he himself according to Christian theology is God, how can we explain, that the God who inspired two (2) Gospel authors to write about this story which more than 1 billion people have read, also commanded for it to remain secret?

    In conclusion, Ive demonstrated inconsistencies:

    (1) From within the manuscripts.
    (2) From within New Testament Laws and Directives.
    (3) From within the same Gospel.
    (4) From within the same Gospels chapter.
    (5) From within the Synoptic Narrative.

    If you are a Christian and youve read this article, the onus is on you to take the challenge further. Your faith here isnt being demeaned or manipulated, but what is being done to it, is a critical examination of Biblical Gospel Truth. If you are willing to concede that these are errors and are willing to confirm in your heart and mind that you cannot accept that your faiths foundations are this inconsistent, I encourage you to take a sincere look at the religion of Islam, which some 1400 and more years ago, from within the true word of God (The Quraan), speaking on the Bible, has said:

    ٰ ۖ
    (So woe to those who write the scripture with their own hands, then say, This is from Allah, in order to exchange it for a small price. Woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn. ) Quraan : Suratul Baqarah (2) : 79.

    wa Allaahu Alam.
    [and God knows best.]


  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Last Activity
    10:18 AM


    Bible: Inspired Incoherencies Part 2
    by Ijaz Ahmad

    Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem
    ۡ ٱ ٱٰۡ ٱ ,

    In Part 1, we examined the textual nature of the New Testament, along with some examples of the incoherencies within. The understanding that Gods revelation cannot be inconsistent was developed through multiple evidences and at this point, one should realise that the Bible as we know it, is very dynamic. In this article, well be looking at the ramifications of Pauls writings versus an entire Book in the New Testament. Meaning then, that there exists a major inspired incoherency, note, Im using the term, inspired here, very loosely. Our journey today begins in the Epistle to Corinth, specifically, in the 2nd Epistle, Chapter 12, we read:

    I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not knowGod knows. And I know that this manwhether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell. Verses 2 4.

    Pauls epistles were authored between 50 AD (beginning with 1st Thessalonians) and 65 AD (his death). As opposed to the New Testament Gospels which were largely authored between 70 AD (if we take into consideration the Q theory) and progressed until 125 AD (Papyrus 52). The dating of the Pastorials and the Personal Revelation of John (The Book of Revelation), has spurious dating and therefore would require a dedicated article to convey a holistic understanding of those texts, for now, lets continue examining our current topic at hand. With the information given, it is then understood that Pauls epistles were clearly completed before the development of the New Testament Synoptic Gospels began. We also have to take into consideration that manuscripts were not as quickly transmitted as they are today. Often times a manuscript would be written by a single scribe (usually the author himself) and delivered where it was read and kept safely. Unlike in todays world where something can be copied in a matter of seconds, to be able to write, let alone read and spell was a significant skill set that a majority of the world did not possess. One must understand that textual transmission is relatively new to the world, as opposed to thousands of years of liturgical transmission (i.e. oral and aural). With that in mind, at the time of the Pauline letters (circa 1st century CE), the main method of transmitting data was primarily liturgical. Therefore with the advent of manuscripts, instead of making instant copies to distribute, the manuscripts would often be read out to persons, and perhaps when it became feasible (depending on the importance of said manuscript), a scribe would copy it meticulously.

    Pauls letters are often, generally classified into two types, as is testament by the manuscripts we possess today. Paul or his scribes would write a letter and address it to a Church in a particular city, cities or none at all. His letters were therefore either either direct (individual) or chain (circular). Direct letters would be directly specified to one named Church, e.g. 1st Thessalonians, as opposed to a letter where it was not directed to any Church, the title being left blank, later to be filled in by a scribe at that city, these are called circular letters. One example of a circular letter would be the Epistle to the Ephesians. For a more indepth understanding of the textual nature of a circular epistle, see the following excerpt from Reformed (Calvinist) Theologian Louis Berkhof:

    Now if we examine the internal evidence, we find that it certainly favors the idea that this Epistle was not intended for the Ephesian church exclusively, for (1) It contains no references to the peculiar circumstances of the Ephesian church, but might be addressed to any of the churches founded by Paul. (2) There are no salutations in it from Paul or his companions to any one in the Ephesian church. (3) The Epistle contemplates only heathen Christians. while the church at Ephesus was composed of both Jews and Gentiles, 2:11, 12; 4:17; 5: 8. (4) To these proofs is sometimes added that 1: 15 and 3: 2 make it appear as if Paul and his readers were not acquainted with each other; but this is not necessarily implied in these passages.

    In all probability the words ἐν ̓Εφέσῳ were not originally in the text. But now the question naturally arises, how we must interpret the following words τοῖς ἁγίοις τοῖς οὖσιν και πιστοῖς; etc. Several suggestions have been made. Some would read: The saints who are really such ; others: the saints existing and faithful in Jesus Christ ; still others: the saints who are also faithful. But none of these interpretations is satistactory: the first two are hardly grammatical; and the last one implies that there are also saints who are not faithful, and that the Epistle was written for a certain select view. Probably the hypothesis first suggested by Ussher is correct, that a blank was originally left after τοῖς οὖσιν, and that Tychicus or someone else was to make several copies of this Epistle and to fill in the blank with the name of the church to which each copy was to be sent. The fact that the church of Ephesus was the most prominent of the churches for which it was intended, will account for the insertion of the words ἐν ̓Εφέσῳ in transcribing the letter, and for the universal tradition regarding its destination. Most likely, therefore, this was a circular letter, sent to several churches in Asia, such as those of Ephesus, Laodicea, Hierapolis, e. a. Probably it is identical with the Epistle ἐκ Λαοδικίας, Col. 4:16.

    At this point, one should be able to understand the dubious nature of the transmission of earlier New Testament manuscripts. Our next point of discussion, logically, should be to understand how this historical lesson on the transmission of the aforementioned manuscripts plays into the quote from 2nd Corinthians. However, before we do so, a point must be noted: God by definition is all knowing, for example, God cant claim to be all knowing and at the same time, not know something (that is to be ignorant). As previously mentioned in Part 1, there is a verse which mentions this specific quality about God:

    For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints. Bible : 1 Corinthians (14) : 33.

    It is quite ironic that Paul states this, as he is at fault for possibly one of the bigger theological contradictions that were about to see. Recall Pauls statements:

    I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of the body I do not knowGod knows. And I know that this manwhether in the body or apart from the body I do not know, but God knows was caught up to paradise and heard inexpressible things, things that no one is permitted to tell. Bible : 2 Corinthians 12 : 2 4.

    How is all of this relevant? What is the point Im trying to make?

    The fact of the matter is that, the Personal Revelation of John (the Book of Revelation) draws on what John (not the John from the Gospel of John, but John of Patmos), allegedly heard/ saw from Jesus the Christ. It so happens that what Paul tells us he is unable to say, that he is not permitted to tell, that John of Patmos a few decades later (based on the more plausible Domitianic date of 95 AD), writes about those same things. Yes, Paul says it is unlawful to mention the inexpressible things about paradise and then we have John of Patmos, tell us those very inexpressible things, to the extent that Johns personal revelation makes it into the New Testament as canonical scripture. To properly understand this, lets examine what John Gill, in his exposition says on this issue:

    heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter; to instance in particular things, which be then either saw or heard, as some have done, is bold and daring; as that he saw the divine Being with the eyes of his understanding, the several angelic forms, thrones, dominions, principalities, and powers, and the glory and beauty of the souls of departed saints; and heard the harmonious music of each of these happy creatures; had a view of the book of life, and was shown the order and method of divine predestination; was let into the mystery of the calling of the Gentiles, and the change that will be on living saints, and heard the whole account of the dispensation of things, in the church of Christ to the end of the world: the things were unspeakable, never yet related, and so not to be known: they were such things which the apostle himself, when out of the rapture, might have but very inadequate ideas of, and such as he was not able to put into proper words and language to be understood by others; and which as he heard them not from a mere man, but from the Lord, so no mere man was able to utter them, none but he of whom he had heard them: and besides, whatever conceptions the apostle might have of them himself, and how capable soever he was of expressing them; yet they were not fit and proper to be told in the present state of things, being no part of the counsel of God relating to mans salvation, the whole of which he faithfully declares; and yet were necessary to be heard by him, in order to establish his faith in the Gospel, to animate him in his ministry, and fortify his mind against all the afflictions, reproaches, and persecutions, he was to meet with for the sake of Christ. The phrase seems to be the same with (wrmal rvpa ya) , it is impossible to say it; and of such like secret things in paradise, or the world of souls, the Jews say that

    they are hidden, and which (hbytkb twlel Mywar Mnya) , are not fit to produce in writing;and so these were such as were not lawful to speak out, (glwssaiv) (anyrwpinaiv) , with human tongues, as Justin Martyr says {z}; they were not in such sense unspeakable, as not to be expressed by any; for they were expressed either by Christ himself, who was glorified in human nature, whom the apostle might now see and hear, or by some angel or angels, or they could not have been heard by the apostle as they were; but they were such as before never been spoken to any mortal man, and so could never have been spoken by any; and though they had been spoken to a mortal man, yet they could not be spoke by him to others; for though when he heard them, his human soul, for that present time, might conceive and take in much of the nature and meaning of them, yet they were such as he could not express by words, and represent to others by speech after the vision was over, and especially at this distance: not that it was sinful to have done it, if he could have done it; or that the things themselves were of such a nature, that it would have been criminal to have rehearsed them; but rather that it was impossible to do it, at least fully, since they might greatly regard the glory of the divine Being, and the worship paid him by the heavenly inhabitants: or could it be done in any tolerable manner, it might not be altogether convenient and proper in the present state of things; since the worship of the upper world lying in praise without prayer, might not be so fit to be related, lest it should be imitated by saints on earth: and seeing what the apostle heard was ineffable, and not to be spoken by himself; no credit is to be given to those spurious things called the Revelation and Ascension of Saint Paul, in which the author or authors of them pretend to tell us what these things were.

    Therefore the entire Book of Revelation, which almost exclusively deals with unseen events in both heaven and earth, was not to be spoken about. Even Paul did not write it, yet today millions of Christians have it in their possession, information which according to Paul are things that no one is permitted to tell. If no one is permitted to speak about those events seen and heard in heaven, then why is it in the Christian Bible? Doesnt that seem odd to.anyone? In the very first chapter of the Book of Revelation (John of Patmos personal revelation) we read of unseen things that no one was permitted to tell (events in heaven):

    12 I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands,13 and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man, dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters.16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance.17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: Do not be afraid.I am the First and the Last. 18 I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

    This leaves us with several conclusions:

    Paul lied as God allowed the Book of Revelation to be written, thought of as scripture and widely produced for roughly 1800 years.
    God lied and told Paul he was not permitted to write it, but then lets some unknown John on a remote island write it.
    Both 1 and 2 are wrong and the Personal Revelation of John (the Book of Revelation) is an interpolation, a fraud and should be removed from the Biblical canon, as it had been before, see:
    The Alogi, about A.D. 200, a sect so called because of their rejection of the logos-doctrine, denied the authenticity of the Apocalypse, assigning it to Cerinthus (Epiphanius, LI, ff, 33; cf. Irenaeus,Against Heresies III.11.9). Caius, a presbyter in Rome, of about the same time, holds a similar opinion. Eusebius quotes his words taken from his Disputation: But Cerinthus by means ofrevelations which he pretended were written by a great Apostle falsely pretended to wonderful things, asserting that after the resurrection there would be an earthly kingdom (Church HistoryIII.28). The most formidable antagonist of the authority of the Apocalypse is Dionysius, Bishop ofAlexandria, disciple of Origen. He is not opposed to the supposition that Cerinthus is the writer of the Apocalypse. For, he says, this is the doctrine of Cerinthus, that there will be an earthly reign of Christ, and as he was a lover of the body he dreamed that he would revel in the gratification of the sensual appetite. He himself did not adopt the view that Cerinthus was the writer. He regarded the Apocalypse as the work of an inspired man but not of an Apostle (Eusebius, Church HistoryVII.25). During the fourth and fifth centuries the tendency to exclude the Apocalypse from the list of sacred books continued to increase in the Syro-Palestinian churches. Eusebius expresses no definite opinion. He contents himself with the statement: The Apocalypse is by some accepted among the canonical books but by others rejected (Church History III.25). St. Cyril of Jerusalemdoes not name it among the canonical books (Catechesis IV.33-36); nor does it occur on the list of the Synod of Laodicea, or on that of Gregory of Nazianzus. Perhaps the most telling argument against the apostolic authorship of the book is its omission from the Peshito, the Syrian Vulgate. But although the authorities giving evidence against the authenticity of the Apocalypse deserve full consideration they cannot annul or impair the older and unanimous testimony of the churches. The opinion of its opponents, moreover, was not free from bias. From the manner in which Dionysiusargued the question, it is evident that he thought the book dangerous as occasioning crude and sensual notions concerning the resurrection. In the West the Church persevered in its tradition ofapostolic authorship. St. Jerome alone seemed to have been influenced by the doubts of the East. The Catholic Encyclopedia, Book of Revelation.

    These inconsistencies never seem to end, in Part 1 we dealt with verses and chapters being contradictory, this time were dealing with an entire Book. The inconsistent nature of the Bible therefore has been demonstrated among verses, chapters and books, thereby constituting the Bible itself as an inconsistent, scripture.

    Further Reading:

    Louis Berkhofs, Introduction to the New Testament, 1st Thessalonians, 1st Ephesians.
    Dr. Ralph Wilsons Bible Studies: An Introduction to Pauls First Epistle to the Ephesians.
    Regarding the referencing of The Book of Revelation as Johns Personal Revelation, see the Catholic Encyclopedia.
    wa Allaahu Alam,
    and Allaah knows best.


Bible: Inspired Incoherencies.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 19-04-2010, 02:22 PM
  2. What does the Bible say
    By in forum English Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 17-01-2010, 12:42 AM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-01-2010, 02:00 AM
  4. Replies: 1
    Last Post: 24-12-2009, 10:40 PM
  5. What the Qur'an says about the Bible?
    By Alexi_Tarek in forum English Forum
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-08-2005, 11:35 AM

Tags for this Thread


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Bible: Inspired Incoherencies.

Bible: Inspired Incoherencies.