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شبكة الفرقان الإسلامية شبكة سبيل الإسلام شبكة كلمة سواء الدعوية منتديات حراس العقيدة
البشارة الإسلامية منتديات طريق الإيمان منتدى التوحيد مكتبة المهتدون
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غرفة الحوار الإسلامي المسيحي مكافح الشبهات شبكة الحقيقة الإسلامية موقع بشارة المسيح
شبكة البهائية فى الميزان شبكة الأحمدية فى الميزان مركز براهين شبكة ضد الإلحاد

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Pandora ask about Islam

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  1. #21
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    If the main reason for offence is the idea of a triune Godhead as opposed to a unitary one , then you are looking at it from the wrong angle, which may be the only way you as a Muslim have been shown to see it. Can't blame you for that. You associate the belief in the Trinity as worship of three persons ...this is not the case, it does not mean that. There is only one God, there are no partners to God in the way you see them ..as three separate individuals. As a simply analogy take an apple cut into three, its still an apple but has three separate pieces.

    There are many examples why a triune God makes more sense than a unitary God, if you read the scriptures that is, The Trinity provides a coherent understanding of God’s nature, the doctrine of the Trinity provides a clear explanation and theological basis upon which one can understand the human desire for love and community. Prior to creation, if Allah was seen as non-relational how could it be possible for Muslims to expect any kind of relationship with him. As an inherently, non-relational being, Allah would be incapable of providing a basis for human community. The Trinity provides an explanation for the human pursuit of love. Because the Trinity has existed for all eternity in a community of love, the human desire for love springs from mankind’s reflection of the divine. Without a Creator who possesses plural-unity, an expression of love would be impossible. The Trinity conveys the overwhelming brilliance of a loving God Who exists in a vibrant community of love.

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    John 1

    The Word Became Flesh

    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

    6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

    9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

    14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

    15 (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”) 16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

  3. #23
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    MOSES AND THE PROPHET

    "I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brethren; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him". Deuteronomy 18.18
    AI will address this claim first...apologies it takes me some time to post replies and I do not know how to quote..

    When Muslims seek to establish that Muhammad is foretold in the Torah, the Old Testament, this is usually referred to verse as the one obvious prophecy in support of their claim. That the prophet who was promised by God to Moses was Muhammed because:

    The Qur'an is allegedly the Word of God and therefore, as Muhammad recited each passage that was delivered to him, he had the words of God put into his mouth in accordance with the words of this prophecy;
    The prophet to come would be from among the brethren of the Israelites, hence the Ishmaelites, because Israel (Jacob) and Ishmael were both descended from Abraham, and the tribes who descended from the twelve sons of Ishmael are therefore "brethren" of the tribes who descended from the twelve sons of Israel. As Muhammad was the only Ishmaelite to claim prophethood in the line of the Old Testament prophets, they aver that the prophecy can only refer to him;
    Muhammad was like Moses in so many ways that the prophecy can only refer to him.
    Let's consider these claims briefly and do so in the light of the context of the prophecy, for this is the only way that a correct interpretation of the text can be obtained. Every intelligent expositor of scripture knows that no passage can be fairly interpreted if it is isolated from its context. Therefore it is essential to quote from the whole passage in which the prophecy is found and the following two extracts are of great importance:

    The Levitical priests, that is, all the tribe of Levi, shall have no portion or inheritance with Israel; they shall eat the offerings by fire to the Lord, and his rightful dues. They shall have no inheritance among their brethren; the Lord is their inheritance as he promised them. Deuteronomy 18.1-2
    The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me from among you, from your brethren - him shall you heed - just as you desired of the Lord your God at Horeb on the day of the assembly, when you said, 'Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, or see this great fire any more, lest I die'. And the Lord said to me, 'They have rightly said all that they have spoken. I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brethren; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I shall command him. And whoever will not give heed to my words which he shall speak in my name, I myself will require it of him. But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name which I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die'. Deuteronomy 18.15-20

    It's important to take the meaning out of context. Now if God had put words into Mohammed's mouth, as was the case of all prophets gone before, then those words would echo what had previously been said. It is true to say there are many similarities but on the core subjects the account not only differs but refutes it.

    Example: the crucifixion. The Quran denies it ever took place. Yet there is a wealth of evidence to suggest it did.

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    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by pandora View Post
    I have read the Quran as I have read the Bible, I am an ordinary person not a Biblical scholar . The Bible differs from the Quran as it never claims to be the direct word of God. It is an inspired work of God and an historical account over a period of 1500 years, a total of 66 books both the Old and New Testament each book collaborates with the others. The New Testament deals mainly with Christ, the Messiah, his birth, mission,death and resurrection. This was transcribed by various means over the years and for a book to be included in the canonised Bible we have today it had to meet a criteria. The Bible we have today is pretty much the same Bible that was inside use during prophet Mohammed's life, is there evidence that Mohammed ever said, personally, that the Bible was corrupted? Or did this idea come later, when the Christians and Jews of the time refused to recognise Mohammed as a prophet.
    What are these criteria ?
    أين الذين هم الرجال إذا دعوا هبوا وإن دوى النفير أغاروا
    يا مسلمون ومن سواكم للحمى إن كشرت عن نابها الأخطار
    الله أكبر في الحياة نشيدنا نور على درب الكفاح ونار


  5. #25
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    The comforter, Paraclete, Advocate or helper...refers to the Holy Spirit, not Mohammed.

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    The books admitted to the canon of Scripture were inspired by God. There were, however, many false books that claimed inspiration. How did the people judge between the true and the false? The Bible does not give any set of criteria that were used to determine which books were to be considered Scripture. We are not told how the determination was made. Though we do not know the exact criteria which were used, they may include the following:

    Prophetic Authorship

    For a book to be considered canonical, it must have been written by a prophet or apostle or by one who had a special relationship to such (Mark to Peter, Luke to Paul).

    Only those who had witnessed the events or had recorded eyewitness testimony could have their writings considered as Holy Scripture.

    Witness of the Spirit

    The appeal to the inner witness of the Holy Spirit was also made to aid the people in understanding which books belonged in the canon and which did not. Clark Pinnock writes:

    The Spirit did not reveal a list of inspired books, but left their recognition to a historical process in which He was active, God's people learned to distinguish wheat from chaff, and gold from gravel, as He worked in their hearts (Clark Pinnock, Biblical Revelation, Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1973, p. 104).

    Acceptance

    The final test is the acceptance of the people of God. Jesus told His disciples:

    But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things Which I said to you (John 14:26).

    We have the promise of Jesus that His disciples would given total recall by the Holy Spirit of the things He said and did. These same disciples either wrote the New Testament books or had input into which works were accepted as Scripture. Any book that claimed canonical status, yet diverted from the truth of the life of Christ, would have been rejected by Jesus' own disciples who were, eyewitnesses to the New Testament events. Thus the acceptance of God's people is an important criterion for book to be considered canonical.

  7. #27
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    How do we know the chosen books are credible?

    The Bible, as we have it today, consists of sixty-six books. The fact that these books belong as Holy Scripture is confirmed by the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    First, with regard to the Old Testament we have the testimony of Jesus to the existing books. He confirmed the accepted three-fold division of our canonical books.

    These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me (Luke 24:44).

    The Promise of Jesus

    As far as the New Testament is concerned, we have the promise of Jesus.

    But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you (John 14:26).

    Though we do not have His guarantee after the fact, we have this promise that a New Testament would be given. Thus, we have Jesus "pre-authenticating" the New Testament.

    Nature of God

    Another reason we can be assured the correct books in the Bible is the nature of God. It has been estimated there are a quintillion stars in the universe and the Bible says God calls them by their names. If God is able to do this, He certainly is able to preserve intact His Word for the benefit of mankind.

    Conclusion

    Since we have the testimony of Jesus that God preserved the Old Testament for His people, we can also be assured that God took the same care in preserving the New Testament books. When the evidence is examined, we find it consistent and credible.

  8. #28
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    Bandora
    Why Christians need to defend Christianity philosophy not science?
    You didn't you explain the Trinity. How Allah look like an Apple parts?
    Still lacking evidence and logic to defend your religion

    Reply you are clear and direct Guide

    1. do custom disciples Jesus Trinity
    2. does the male Word Trinity in the Bible

    This did not explain


    Quote
    A Christians relationship with God, well mine at least, does not depend wholly on what is written in the Bible. It is easy to know what God requires of us, as we have the example of Jesus to follow.
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

    تحمَّلتُ وحديَ مـا لا أُطيـقْ من الإغترابِ وهَـمِّ الطريـقْ
    اللهم اني اسالك في هذه الساعة ان كانت جوليان في سرور فزدها في سرورها ومن نعيمك عليها . وان كانت جوليان في عذاب فنجها من عذابك وانت الغني الحميد برحمتك يا ارحم الراحمين

  9. #29
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    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by pandora View Post
    John 1

    The Word Became Flesh

    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

    6 There was a man sent from God whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all might believe. 8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.

    9 The true light that gives light to everyone was coming into the world. 10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. 11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

    14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

    15 (John testified concerning him. He cried out, saying, “This is the one I spoke about when I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’”) 16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given. 17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.

    There are many guides from the New Testament and old testament destroy Trinity
    It is a contradiction in the Bible?

    Example: in the new testament

    - Matthew 4:10

    - Matthew 28:19
    - Luke 1:35

    - Luke 1:47

    - Luke 7:16

    - Luke 8:39

    - John 2:24

    - John 3:13

    - John 6:64

    - John 6:33, 38, 51 & 58

    - John 6:62

    example: in the old testament


    - Genesis 1:1

    - Genesis 16:7-13


    Why Christians are Monotheists reject the Trinity
    ؟
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

    تحمَّلتُ وحديَ مـا لا أُطيـقْ من الإغترابِ وهَـمِّ الطريـقْ
    اللهم اني اسالك في هذه الساعة ان كانت جوليان في سرور فزدها في سرورها ومن نعيمك عليها . وان كانت جوليان في عذاب فنجها من عذابك وانت الغني الحميد برحمتك يا ارحم الراحمين

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    "I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brethren; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them all that I command him". Deuteronomy 18.18
    Many other guides Bisharat Prophet Muhammad in the Bible. But don't think that this is reliable to prove the Prophet Mohammed. The Quran and Islam proves it because it
    Christians, Jews, Hindus and even atheists entering Islam is not because of Basharat in the Bible
    But because Islam and prophet Mohammad fact



    Quote
    The Qur'an is allegedly the Word of God and therefore
    Where!


    Quote
    It is true to say there are many similarities but on the core subjects the account not only differs but refutes it.

    Why deny it?

    Also did not comment on the rest of the Basharat


    Quote
    Example: the crucifixion. The Quran denies it ever took place. Yet there is a wealth of evidence to suggest it did.

    Complete talk about the Trinity and then talk about the crucifixion of Christ
    Last edited by فداء الرسول; 16-12-2012 at 12:38 PM.
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

    تحمَّلتُ وحديَ مـا لا أُطيـقْ من الإغترابِ وهَـمِّ الطريـقْ
    اللهم اني اسالك في هذه الساعة ان كانت جوليان في سرور فزدها في سرورها ومن نعيمك عليها . وان كانت جوليان في عذاب فنجها من عذابك وانت الغني الحميد برحمتك يا ارحم الراحمين

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