A debate between Authentic Man and our decent guest bahiraomar

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شبكة الفرقان الإسلامية شبكة سبيل الإسلام شبكة كلمة سواء الدعوية منتديات حراس العقيدة
البشارة الإسلامية منتديات طريق الإيمان منتدى التوحيد مكتبة المهتدون
موقع الشيخ احمد ديدات تليفزيون الحقيقة شبكة برسوميات المرصد الإسلامي لمقاومة التنصير
غرفة الحوار الإسلامي المسيحي مكافح الشبهات شبكة الحقيقة الإسلامية موقع الدعوة الإسلامية
شبكة البهائية فى الميزان شبكة الأحمدية فى الميزان مركز براهين شبكة ضد الإلحاد

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A debate between Authentic Man and our decent guest bahiraomar

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  1. #11
    bahiraomar's Avatar
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    السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

    I will wait for your responses. Meanwhile I want to share what I think about my God and Islam.

    God said:

    “ Yes, I have loved you with an everlasting love;
    Therefore with lovingkindness I have drawn you.”

    Jeremiah 31:3


    Do you know that LOVE is the greatest of all virtues.
    I saw how Muslims love Muslims.
    But Muslims do not know that they should love their enemies. Brothers, Muslims are commanded to love only Muslims.
    As always you do not believe me?

    Al Qura’an 60:4:
    There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: "We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah. we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone": But not when Abraham said to his father: "I will pray for forgiveness for thee, though I have no power (to get) aught on thy behalf from Allah." (They prayed): "Our Lord! in Thee do we trust, and to Thee do we turn in repentance: to Thee is (our) Final Goal.

    Muhammad said:
    The Prophet (saw) said: The best of the actions is to love for the sake of Allah and to hate for the sake of Allah. Abu Dawud 40:4582

    One man said: I went out with my father to Syria. The people passed by the cloisters in which there were Christians and began to salute them. My father said: Do not give them salutation first, for AbuHurayrah reported the Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) as saying: Do not salute them (Jews and Christians) first, and when you meet them on the road, force them to go to the narrowest part of it."
    Abu Dawud 41:5186, Sahih Muslim 26:5389, Sahih Muslim

    Why do we see it in Islamic world?
    There is a concept in Islam called al-Walaa wal-Baraa.
    Walaa is allegiance or love (for Muslims). Baraa is enmity or hate (of kafirs). So the concept is to love Muslims and Islam and to hate kafirs and their civilization. Walaa and baraa are love and hate. Walaa/baraa destroys all empathy and sympathy for kafirs. It means there is NO LOVE to all people in Islam! The walaa/baraa principle is duality at the personal level and at the same time it causes duality at the political level. Islam is incapable of being our friend because Islam teaches hatred. We know with you that those who hate other people are murderers. Yes, and only THOSE who know Islam are able to know this concept al-Walaa wal-Baraa. Other Muslims are secular Muslims. They do what Islam says not knowing why Islam says it. But we with you are another group of people who are called by God to BE REASONABLE. God called us to reason together with Him to find Him (Isaiah1:18 Come now, let us reason together,"says the LORD…).

    So, what does it mean?

    God Jesus said:
    Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3: 15

    But let’s look now how this attitude caused by Islam in the hearts of Muslims affects our lives and our world:
    Hamaz publishes scores of jihadist testimonies such as this from the will of suicide bomber Isma'il al-Ma'aswabi, who detonated a car bomb killing two Israeli soldiers:
    love of jihad and martyrdom rules my life, my soul, my feelings and my heart … It is difficult for the soul that has tasted the sweet taste of jihad, the suffering in which is delicious … to rest anywhere else than Paradise …Whereas I am living in Paradise … do not be sad my brothers as I am a shahid in Paradise …and I will see you there with God's help.
    Brother where is Isma'il al-Ma'aswabi now?
    His Islam called him to kill people and explode himself and their bodies.
    Hamaz called him to suffer and die.
    Is this explosion of two Israeli soldiers by Isma'il al-Ma'aswabi a crime?

    You and God have different nature and essence. That’s why what you think can contradict His will. You are NOT God and to know this God we study His words said many centuries before the existence of Islam. So, this God clearly said that anyone who violates any of His laws are guilty of violation of all laws of God. It means, if you hate anyone/your brother, it means you are a murderer of your brother. No one is teaching you that in Madrassah. No one teaches that in religious Islamic schools….
    There should not be any hatred in our lives if we are going to get to the Kingdom of God.
    Remember that our God is HOLY and righteous and He clearly said in the one of His Holy Commandments written by the finger of God at the Mount Sinai and given to Moses: YOU SHALL NOT KILL.

    We all can know our God by analysis of the HOLY words of God said many centuries before the existence of Islam. Let’s analyze them today together. I like to use this example: there are 33 mln of gods/allahs ONLY in India! How to know the difference between the TRUE God and one of this gods called cow. We just SHOULD analyze the nature/essence of cow and God to understand who should be worshipped by me and you and every man on this earth.

    So, brothers, God said that He manifested His love for every one of us and He expects that in some way we would love Him with all our hearts in return.

    "Beloved, let us love one another; for love is of God, and he who loves is born of God and knows God. He who does not love does not know God, for God is love. In this the love of God was made manifest among us, that God sent his only Son into the world, so that we might live through him. In this is love, not that we loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we also ought to love one another. No man has ever seen God; if we love one another, God abides in us and his love is perfected in us". 1 John 4:7-11.
    What does it mean? God loves us when we were sinners and He manifested His love toward us by sending us His perfect Son from His Perfect world to live among us and take our sins to His body and die instead of us.
    How may we understand the depth of this love?
    My Muslim brother said:
    God needed to set humans free, so he killed himself!!!

    Yes, right. Let me illustrate it to you:
    You are living in Libya. There are no good hospitals like in the USA. Your son is ill and he is hospital. Only you can save him by giving him your kidney for operation and transplantation. If you will not give it to him then you know that there is no other man who could be donor. And after this operation you die. But your son is alive. It is the highest love when you suffered everything…your life to save another person. We say that it is the highest LOVE of a man to his child.
    Or if you will not push your child from approaching car and die instead of him in this accident then your LOVE to your child is NOTHING! Because it means that you love yourself more than anyone else. So, if you are able to suffer and die, saving your child, then LOOK HOW great and perfect is LOVE of your Father- God- who gave His Son to die instead of you. This ‘car’ smashed Him to pieces and that’s why you will live forever and ever!

    "Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends". John 15:13

    "He who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, will he not also give us all things with him?" Romans 8:32

    "For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life". John 3:16

    Here we have a visible expression of God's love for us. God manifested His love toward all of us Christian and Muslims. We did not know this God, but He knew us.
    He said if even you do not know Me, I will grid you.

    I am the LORD, and there is no other;
    There is no God besides Me.
    I will gird you, though you have not known Me, Isaiah 45:5-6

    Thus, God made you the gift of His Son and it is a full manifestation of the depth of His love towards you and all of us:
    "God shows his love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us". Romans 5:8

    You all know Moses. Shortly before his death he addressed to the Children of Israel:

    "You shall keep the commandments of the Lord your God, by walking in his ways and by fearing him". Deuteronomy 8:6

    It is our duty to keep God's laws and we deservedly incur His wrath if we do not do so. Those who do not implement what God said are unbelievers and they will be judged soon. We all are servants and as servants we are obliged to render loyal service to our Master. So it is the duty of all men to fear God and keep His commandments (Ecclesiastes 12:13).
    But when one man asked Jesus which is the greatest of all God's commandments, what would the answer be? First, let us hear Moses again to discover whether there is a greater duty upon us towards God other than that of simply keeping His laws.
    "What does the Lord your God require of you, but to fear the Lord your God, to walk in all his ways, to love him, to serve the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul". Deuteronomy 10:12
    Our service to God must be the expression of the affections of our own hearts toward Him and people. We should LIVE by walking with God like Moses was guided by this God in the desert after their escape/Passover from Egypt. Moses and a group of people lived there without water, food and clothes. But God provided them food, and water. Even God protected their clothes, they were unchanged, preserved. God knows our greatest needs, and He knows what will sustain us and keep us safe. The fact is that the clothes and shoes of the Israelites did not wear out in the 40 years of desert wandering. God is faithful and supplies our needs. The manna stayed fresh so long as the people gathered it up according to His instructions and water came out of a rock for them because God was with them and kept them. The point is that it wasn't meat that the Israelites lacked but it was faith. God was trying to break their hope in flesh and thoughts of earthly pleasures in their captivity in Egypt. He was teaching them to live depending only on Him. Thus, He made them to be His people…perfect and separated from other pagan nations…This people Israelites didn’t depend on flesh and what they saw. They hoped to get what was unseen- the Promised Land/ the Kingdom of Heaven. This people entered the Promised Land and this land become the HOLY Land because the Holy God dwelt among them and in their lives.
    Moses did not enter the Promised Land because God did not allow him to do it because of his sin. But Moses made his people know which service God expects from men. The only service God will accept from men is that which flows from love that proceeds from the heart.
    Centuries later a Jewish scribe came up to Jesus and put a question to Him to test His interpretation of the law/ Jewish al Shariah to see whether Jesus agreed with the opinions of the Jewish elders:
    "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?" Matthew 22:36

    Jesus said:
    "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment." Matthew 22:37-38

    The command to love God is therefore the greatest and foremost of all His commandments. All other laws and all the teachings of the prophets are summed up in this one law to love the Lord with all our hearts, souls and minds.

    Jesus continues:

    And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.” Matthew 22:39-40

    Who is our neighbor? Jews in Palestine? Yes, they were given the Promised Land. This Land became HOLY because Jews brought there the HOLY laws of God of Israel. By entering there the HOLY Jewish people brought there the Kingdom of the HOLY God of Israel. Thus, God dwelt among them.

    What is love?
    We know that during all days of our lives we should be motivated by love. It means we obey God and this obedience that grows out of love. Love is expression of the affections of the heart. We serve each other with the purpose that this man or woman would escape the coming wrath of God against them. We seek to express that love in regularly prayers offered to God about this person…We can pray life long that God would save our parents, our brothers terrorists, stubborn Jews and our righteous Muslims. God values our heart-movements. He needs such service of our heart- our prayers. Prayer is not a bowing down, it is lifting up our brothers. We lift our supplications to the Throne of God and He is God who hears. He is God who saves. These are His names. God is able to dispatch from His Throne required number of His fighters/warriors called angels and they will guard your hearts and lives. God is who provides. It is His name.
    Remember, brothers, that our love should be expressive. It is fire. Love is an empty vacuum unless it manifests itself in appropriate ways. Unless deeds of love flow from our hearts, there is no love in our hearts. This love flowing from our hearts to save our brothers is FAITH. This love is evident in our deeds.
    "Little children, let us not love in word or speech but in deed and truth". 1 John 3:18

    If we obey God and His commandments/laws/words and turn from slavery of our sins in Egypt like Israelites did it in the desert after their Passover from their slavery in Egypt then it means that we love God. If we love people then it means that we love God.
    It is the truth.
    Worship God in this TRUTH.

    In the Song of Solomon/the Old Testament, we have an example of this principle.
    The book concerns the deepest affections of a man and his bride for one another. On one occasion when he was apart from her, she sought him desperately, saying to her companions:
    "I adjure you, O daughters of Jerusalem, if you find my beloved, that you tell him I am sick with love". Song of Solomon 5:8
    Her companions said to her in reply:
    "What is your beloved more than another beloved?" Song of Solomon 5:9
    In a lengthy reply she detailed the worth of her loved one and showed that she considered him to excel in every respect, from his head to his feet. He was, in her view, distinguished among ten thousand. She summed up his worth in these words:
    "His speech is most sweet, and he is altogether desirable. This is my beloved and this is my friend, O daughters of Jerusalem". Song of Solomon 5:16

    With these principles in mind, described by God in the Song of Solomon, we know that God of Israel has the most powerful words in the world. He has the most powerful deeds for you and me. He died and saved us. That’s why we express our love to Him in return. God chose to demonstrate His love for mankind by giving of His very own self to redeem us from sin. This is the perfect love and the highest love. This is the nature of God who is LOVE.

    Thus, if you have not obeyed God yet by LOVING Him and His people then do it today. This is the will of God. This is what you call Christianity. Thus, LOVE is the character of the Kingdom of God. And it is the character of those who live in the Kingdom of God. You want to enter there? LOVE God and LOVE people. Here in this parable below God Jesus teaches us to love all people. Only by loving people and the TRUE God Jesus we can inherit the Kingdom of God.

    The Parable of the Good Samaritan
    And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him (Jesus), saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
    He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?”
    So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’”
    And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”
    But he, wanting to justify himself, said to Jesus, “And who is my neighbor?”
    Then Jesus answered and said:
    “A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, who stripped him of his clothing, wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead. Now by chance a certain priest came down that road. And when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. Likewise a Levite, when he arrived at the place, came and looked, and passed by on the other side. But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was. And when he saw him, he had compassion. So he went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine; and he set him on his own animal, brought him to an inn, and took care of him. On the next day, when he departed, he took out two denarii, gave them to the innkeeper, and said to him, ‘Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, when I come again, I will repay you.’ So which of these three do you think was neighbor to him who fell among the thieves?”
    And he said, “He who showed mercy on him.”
    Then Jesus said to him, “Go and do likewise.”
    Luke 10:25-37

    Be neighbor to your Palestinian brothers! Be neighbor to your Jewish brothers. LOVE your neighbors and brothers. And you all will be HOLY sons of the HOLY Father dwelling on the HOLY LAND called Israel and in the Kingdom of Heaven.

  2. #12
    bahiraomar's Avatar
    bahiraomar is offline Banned
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    السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

    Our God cries about our brother Osama Bin Laden.
    President Barack Obama shared the news with the whole world that leader of Al Qaeda organization, Osama bin Laden, is dead.
    Let’s listen to the President Barack Obama:
    Good evening. Tonight, I can report to the American people and to the world that the United States has conducted an operation that killed Osama bin Laden, the leader of al Qaeda, and a terrorist who's responsible for the murder of thousands of innocent men, women, and children….We offered our neighbors a hand, and we offered the wounded our blood. We reaffirmed our ties to each other, and our love of community and country…. We were also united in our resolve to protect our nation and to bring those who committed this vicious attack to justice…And so we went to war against al Qaeda to protect our citizens, our friends, and our allies….For over two decades, bin Laden has been al Qaeda's leader and symbol, and has continued to plot attacks against our country and our friends and allies. The death of bin Laden marks the most significant achievement to date in our nation's effort to defeat al Qaeda…Bin Laden was not a Muslim leader; he was a mass murderer of Muslims. Indeed, al Qaeda has slaughtered scores of Muslims in many countries, including our own. So his demise should be welcomed by all who believe in peace and human dignity…The cause of securing our country is not complete…our commitment to stand up for our values abroad, and our sacrifices to make the world a safer place…Let us remember that we can do these things not just because of wealth or power, but because of who we are: one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you. May God bless you. And may God bless the United States of America.
    Yes, we all should be committed to implement the laws of justice.
    But it is not always the case in this world.
    We all are criminals.
    We all are murderers like Osama Bin Laden.
    God said if you hate your brother, you are a murderer.
    We all have expressed our hatred to our brothers in different ways.
    America celebrates his death. But the millions of people who are alive in this world are spiritually DEAD the same way like Osama. Those who do not conform their lives to live in peace with God and people are criminals in the eyes of God.
    Should we celebrate justice which became evident upon the death of Osama?
    We should MOURN because one of our brothers went to the Throne of God and he was sentenced to death. We should MOURN that one of our family members died. But we should deeply mourn about ourselves because our God Jesus is going to judge us the same way. We should mourn about millions of such brothers like Osama, living in Saudi Arabia and all over the world. But there is a hope. The light of God is shining to these brothers when they are still physically alive in this world. God does not sleep. He is calling them to repentance and His Son Jesus too. God Jesus is the ONE who is mourning the most about Osama.
    Osama was judged by God Jesus for his crimes according to the Holy Scripture.
    But what did he do when he saw the light coming from the pierced hands of the GOD of the universe Jesus in His Kingdom?
    He was terrible disappointed that he knew God Jesus but He chose another god.
    Osama offered to his god in Islam his wealth and life and even thousands of lives among which are Muslims and Americans. But knowing about God Jesus, Osama did not know God Jesus!
    Hearing about God of Israel, Osama did not know this God.
    Knowing about God who is God of our father Ibrahim, you Muslims do not know this God!
    This God is LOVE.
    This God loved you before the foundation of the world.
    My brother Sazie Johnson said the other day:
    I have a question for Muslims. But first let us talk.
    When we do a study on love, we find that love has a need and a purpose. The purpose of love is to extend itself from one point to another. And the need that love has is to be accepted. Both the purpose of love which is to extend itself from one point to another, and its need to be accepted make it impossible for love to exist in isolation or total aloneness.
    In other words, there love will die and dry-up if there is nothing to which it can extend itself. Here is the question: “If Muhammad’s god, Allah, is love, who did he love before creation? We know love cannot exist in total aloneness. Who did Allah love before creation?
    It is bad to say, “Allah did not need to love anyone or anything.” That mean love is not original with Allah, but a added-on attribute after creation.
    Brothers, but our Christian Allah said that He is God of LOVE!
    He loves you unconditional, infinitely.
    That’s why His heart is broken by seeing His son Osama going to the prison/hell.
    But Osama knows now that Jesus is right. He knows that thousands of killings he made in the name of Islamic allah were a mistake. It was the result of his wrong choices.
    But what did the love of our God do toward Oslama?
    God have never stopped calling us -Christians- to pray about salvation of Osama. God was making our hearts to pray daily about His salvation. This God never stopped loving Osama! This God never stopped talking to Osama. Our God made the best to turn Osama to Himself.
    But even our Almighty God could not violate his FREE will to choose his way.
    Our God broke the heart of Osama by talking to Him but only Osama could TURN his heart to God. God did not violate his will and didn’t force him.
    Because God loved him.
    God said:
    “ Yes, I have loved you with an everlasting love;
    Therefore with lovingkindness I have drawn you.” Jeremiah 31:3
    The LORD God says it to every one of us!
    God’s love for you is an eternal love. It is filled with unfailing care and mercy. He does not say, “I will love you,” but “I have loved you with an everlasting love.”
    In New Testament we read that the apostle John states the same wonderful truth:
    “We love, because He first loved us” (1 John 4:19).
    How do we know such an awesome fact is true? “In this is love, not that we loved God, but that He loved us and sent His Son to be the propitiation for my sins”.
    There has never been a time, or even a moment, when He did not love you.
    Osama didn’t escape the Judgment of God it but you can do it. But we are able to do it. Because according to the Scripture, Ibn Allah was judged instead of us.
    He descended to hell instead of you. But He brought there freedom and set people FREE. He set those people FREE who wanted to be FREE and follow God Jesus.
    Even coming to hell after His death, God Jesus set the prisoners free. This God whom we Christians worship SAVES.
    Jesus preached in the hell! He is God who SAVES.
    God loved us and sent His Son/Ibn Allah to be the “propitiation for our sins.” God’s holiness is satisfied, and His wrath is turned away from us because of what Jesus did for us on our behalf. God’s justice has now been satisfied because His perfect, sinless Son paid our debt in full on the cross by accepting all our sins to His holy body.
    God who is LOVE is God who is the consuming Fire.
    His righteous indignation devours every one who is living in their own worlds governed by their own rules because such worlds are full of hatred, abomination and murders.
    If God is coming, no one is able to be alive in His HOLY presence.
    God’s wrath is a settled, controlled, holy, antagonism against all sin.
    God says, “The soul that sins shall die!” “The wages of sin is death.”
    But a righteous, just and LOVING God intervened to our lives and to the life of Osama in His sovereign grace.
    “By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him” (1 John 4:9). “And the witness is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life” (5:11, 12).
    God keeps saying over and over again to us, “I have loved you with an everlasting love; therefore I have drawn you with loving-kindness.” I love you and I have demonstrated that love once and forever in the death of My Son on your behalf. This is My demonstration of My grace to YOU.
    We all see demonstration of death of Osama. But even the Son of this Almighty God was DEAD the same way. His heart stopped one moment. But this DEATH was demonstration of God’s LOVE.
    This God DIED instead of you!
    He did NOT kill thousands of Muslims and Americans.
    He willingly decided to die.
    This is what is contrary to violence.
    This is was is grace and mercy.
    This is the ONE who is worthy to be called millions of times during all our lives- AR-RAHMAN WA AR-RAHIM.
    This everlasting love of God on the cross and in the heart of God gives us confidence and assurance of eternal life with Him in the New World created by Him for you:
    Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth
    , for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away.
    Also there was no more sea….
    And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying,
    “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them,
    and they shall be His people.
    God Himself will be with them and be their God.
    And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”
    Then He who sat on the throne said,
    “Behold, I make all things new.”
    And He said to me,“Write, for these words are true and faithful.” Revelation 21: 1,3-5.

    The wealthy Saudis like Osama use their oil money to promote Islam, to build mosques, to pay the salaries of preachers all over the world. And in many cases their money turns against them by killing their Muslim brothers in Pakistan and even themselves. Life of Osama is a demonstration of such way of life.. But God didn't stop LOVING us. But we will not promote terrorism and hatred. We will hate sins and love all people. We decide to love you the same way like our God loves you! We will live holy lives being SONS of God and His inheritance. We will call you to RETURN to our Father until our last day and minute in this world. We will invest our time, money, lives and hearts to establish the Kingdom of God on earth like it is in the Kingdom of Heaven. This is the will of God for your life to be HOLY like He is HOLY! But this aim should not be reached by violence but by LOVE toward Muslim brothers and all people. Because our God is God of LOVE. Allahu Mahabba

    الله محبة

  3. #13
    Authentic Man's Avatar
    Authentic Man is offline مشرف المنتدى الانجليزي
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    It's again and again you beat around the bush
    My questions were so clear; to the point, but no direct or indirect answer, and going in circles

    As I said from the very beginning " It's a one side debate
    May Allah guide you to His Path
    من هنا نبدأ ... وفي الجنة نلتقي
    إن شاء الله

    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

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A debate between Authentic Man and our decent guest bahiraomar

A debate between Authentic Man and our decent guest bahiraomar