Salam Aleikom

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Salam Aleikom

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  1. #21
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    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post

    First of all In Christianity there are not three Gods

    There is the only God, figured as the Father, then there is his Son Jesus and then there is the Spirit
    Well,
    The Father +His Son + The Spirit = 1 not 3
    All are one God!!!
    Is Jesus the Father?
    No!!!

    Is Jesus the Spirit?
    No!!!

    Is the Spirit the Father?
    No!!!

    But the three are only one!!!

    So, Is Jesus a part of God?
    Is Father a part of God?
    Is the Spirit a part of God?

    No!!!

    OK
    The Father ≠ His Son ≠ The Spirit
    They are different, right?
    As each hypostasis has his own qualities and roles

    If we say each hypostasis is God
    The Father ≠ His Son ≠ The Spirit
    So,
    God ≠ God ≠ God ≠ 1


    So, they are 3 Gods not one

    .......................................

    Now, we have something more exciting,
    Why do you consider Jesus the God's son although all people are God's children?

    Let the Bible Speak:
    M't 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

    So, the idea of trinity must be one of the following:
    Father + Son + Chidren + Spirit
    So it's fourfold !!!!
    or
    Father + Chidren + Spirit

    ..................................

    Do you consider Jesus - the God who died according to your belief - a God?!!!

    He is dead!!!
    Do you worship a dead God?!!!

    I know you would say" He is not dead. He
    M't 28:6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. 7: And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead

    Great!!!
    What did they see?!!!
    They saw the Devil, Satan

    Let the Bible Speak
    M't 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
    M't 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders
    2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

    The prophcy of Christ bacame true, but you did listened to his order " believe it not" !!!

    His followers were of little faith, they doubted him while he was alive, and didn't apply what he ordered after his death!!!!
    He said "believe it not" but they believed!!!

    M't 16:8 Which when Jesus perceived, he said unto them, O ye of little faith, why reason ye among yourselves, because ye have brought no bread?



    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    spirit can be characterized as the message of humanity, being in all of us, preferably filled with ethical comprehension and recognition
    This means the spirit is in humans, right?
    What a weak God?!!!!

    If you had God in you, would you do a tiny mistake?!!!
    Why do we hear day and night about thousands of rape, children abuse, adultry, stealing,...etc. in churches and in streets?!!!

    Where is the spirit?!!!
    Does spirit like that?!!!
    Isn't it strong enough to stop people committing such crimes?!!!

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    we are not bond to the Bible, because in our belief the Bible is not given nor written by God, but human-made

    This implies that the Bible is a book as a pattern of thinking, it suggests you advice, it suggests you proposals
    Great to admit that the Bible is human-made..
    That means, it's not Divine anymore!!!



    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    According to our moral, ethical view, our education, our knowledge we are free to think what we want, but we are responsible towards ourselves as well as towards other people
    Well, what are the criteria of the ideal way of thinking?!!!
    Doesn't it differ from one to another?
    A women-rapist thinks all women's bodies are his!!!
    A bank robber thinks that all banks money is his!!!
    A cruel father thinks his way is the best to bring up his children in a healthy way!!!

    So, we need a sound accurate constitution to control peoples behaviours and deeds

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    Why are humans created according to Christianity?
    The answer depends on your approach
    The answer must be from the Christian point of view included with evidence, not personal or points of view!!!!

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    Regarding religion I confirm that thinking about humankind, nature and science you cannot be ignorant and you have to put questions. But the answers vary, from your point of view and so do religions also
    Where is the answer?!!!
    Please answer the question according to your own belief
    Why wrer humans created?

    best regards
    من هنا نبدأ ... وفي الجنة نلتقي
    إن شاء الله

    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

  2. #22
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    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    So if you want to call me an agnostic human, you might be right a little.
    If you are agnostic, what are the criteria of the ideal religion?
    Once you find these criteria in a religion, you will convert to it?
    Best regards
    من هنا نبدأ ... وفي الجنة نلتقي
    إن شاء الله

    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

  3. #23
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    God is the ruller . not huamain . adulf hitler is a humain and he said that we should kill gays and jews and non white people to save huamnity . and a lot of people was beleive in his theory and still some people beleive in what hitler said
    he is a humain . this is what humain brain & thinking give.
    but God is wise than us and he is know us more than our selfs . he diside to us what is best for us ..
    Last edited by مهدي بنزياد; 21-11-2010 at 07:40 PM.

  4. #24
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    يا اخوان ارجو منكم ان لا تكلموه عن المسيحية . ارجو ان تركزوا على الاسلام . تكلموا عن الاسلام و اتركوا المسيحية جانبا فهو لا يؤمن بها ايمانا حقيقيا . و هذا الضيف ليس ارثودوكسيا و لا يؤمن بان الكتاب المقدس هو من عند الله و لا يؤمن بان المسيحية دين الاهي . هو يؤمن انه ليس هنلك اي دين الاهي .
    لذلك تكلموا له عن الاسلام و عظمته و روعته و انه دين الاهي . و اتركوا المسيحية جانبا .

  5. #25
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    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    The Pope is catholic and

    I told several times here that the “Spirit” is not a God
    And I have never spoken about Buddhism
    I'm glad to hear about that ,
    Thank you for correcting this misunderstanding but I have my excuse , I've never met christians that deny the deity of the spirit .



    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    One crucial difference between Islam and Christianity is the approach and I can see, that this causes inconvenience.
    Of course Islam's approach is different but that's not all .

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    In Christianity and I speak for my behalf the approach is human-oriented. We do not deny that there is a God, on the other hand there is no prove.
    We can't see electricity that doesn't mean it doesn't exist !

    We just feel it although we can't see it .

    Did you read the Qoran ?


    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    But it is convenient to pretend there is a God and I can accept that.
    This following it depends on everybody’s personal attitude and opinion, what to think. Several people think of God as an absolute Creator, ok, why not and some people do admit doubts or they accept questions and are open to discuss essential questions.Christianity demands strong and responsible characters that can bear criticism, that can cope with it, that are aware of criticism and humans’ failure.
    [/QUOTE]

    I'm sorry to tell you that I really don't know what you're talking about .To think that God has a mother makes an atheist of a person .

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    Christianity in my belief is human-made and therefore religion is for humankind,not the other way round that religion is for a God. Christianity does not dictate any opinion or belief. The Christianity puts humankind in centre of our handling and dealing with problems. Christianity demands responsibility and maturity. I know this is too squishy for many people, but this is the origin for discussion, for thinking. Discussion and thinking depends on the humans in their surroundings in their time. This is requested. Thus the discussion should always centre about the humans and their problems. Christianity does not want blind followers, Christianity needs mature people who admit doubts, questions and discussions, criticism and failure.
    I disagree with that .


    It reminds me of this verse:

    Mat 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.



    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    Following this you will seldom see me quoting from the Bible, because it is a pattern of how it could have been, but not how it must have been. In my eyes it is the same with the Koran. Many people argue with words or quotations of their Bible or Koran and I can accept it. But all you would quote mustnot be a prove, it can be or it is your belief.
    well , I don't know what's wrong in quoting from the Bible or the Qoran .

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    See clearly the difference, elevating the Bible or the Koran as a book from God, that is your belief but there is not any proof in it nor for it. To read and understand the Bible or Koran is interpretation and that is quite fine. As said before there is no proof.
    What makes you so sure that there's no proof?

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    So if you want to call me an agnostic human, you might be right a little.
    I don't wanna call you agnostic , your words just sound agnostic to me .


    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    It is too private to mention it here in detail, but there were situations in my life when I behaved more a religious person than that persons, that call themselves Christians or Muslems.
    I keep saying that moslims don't think that non-moslems are villain . We don't .But this is not the point.

    The point is :why should one do the good deeds?

    if you do it for the good of the humanity ,perhaps you'd be rewarded from the humanity

    If you do it as a worship, God will reward you .

    & everyone is free to choose .

    Best regards
    Last edited by الفضة; 22-11-2010 at 01:24 AM.

  6. #26
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    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post

    The Pope is catholic and

    I told several times here that the “Spirit” is not a God
    And I have never spoken about Buddhism

    I'm glad to hear that ,
    Thank you for correcting this misunderstanding but I have my excuse , I've never met christians that deny the deity of the spirit that you sometimes call "the holy ghost " .






    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post

    One crucial difference between Islam and Christianity is the approach and I can see, that this causes inconvenience.

    Of course Islam's approach is different but that's not all
    .



    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post


    In Christianity and I speak for my behalf the approach is human-oriented. We do not deny that there is a God, on the other hand there is no prove.

    We can't see electricity that doesn't mean it doesn't exist !

    We just feel it although we can't see it .

    Did you read the Qoran ?





    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post


    But it is convenient to pretend there is a God and I can accept that.
    I think this is not a relief .

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post

    This following it depends on everybody’s personal attitude and opinion, what to think. Several people think of God as an absolute Creator, ok, why not and some people do admit doubts or they accept questions and are open to discuss essential questions.Christianity demands strong and responsible characters that can bear criticism, that can cope with it, that are aware of criticism and humans’ failure.
    I'm sorry to tell you that I really don't know what you're talking about .To think that God has a mother makes an atheist of a person .



    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post


    Christianity in my belief is human-made and therefore religion is for humankind,not the other way round that religion is for a God. Christianity does not dictate any opinion or belief. The Christianity puts humankind in centre of our handling and dealing with problems. Christianity demands responsibility and maturity. I know this is too squishy for many people, but this is the origin for discussion, for thinking. Discussion and thinking depends on the humans in their surroundings in their time. This is requested. Thus the discussion should always centre about the humans and their problems. Christianity does not want blind followers, Christianity needs mature people who admit doubts, questions and discussions, criticism and failure.

    I disagree with that .


    It reminds me of this verse:

    Mat 15:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.





    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post

    Following this you will seldom see me quoting from the Bible, because it is a pattern of how it could have been, but not how it must have been. In my eyes it is the same with the Koran. Many people argue with words or quotations of their Bible or Koran and I can accept it. But all you would quote mustnot be a prove, it can be or it is your belief.

    well , I don't know what's wrong with quoting from the Bible or the Qoran .



    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post

    See clearly the difference, elevating the Bible or the Koran as a book from God, that is your belief but there is not any proof in it nor for it. To read and understand the Bible or Koran is interpretation and that is quite fine. As said before there is no proof.
    &What makes you so sure that there's no proof?



    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post

    So if you want to call me an agnostic human, you might be right a little.

    I don't wanna call you agnostic , your words just sound agnostic to me .



    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post

    It is too private to mention it here in detail, but there were situations in my life when I behaved more a religious person than that persons, that call themselves Christians or Muslems.

    I keep saying that moslims don't think that non-moslems are villain . We don't .But this is not the point.

    The point is :why should one do the good deeds?

    if you do it for the good of the humanity ,perhaps you'd be rewarded from the humanity

    If you do it as a worship, God will reward you .

    & everyone is free to choose .

    Best regards
    Last edited by الفضة; 22-11-2010 at 02:54 AM.

  7. #27
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    whats make you so sure that their is no prove that quran is the book of God ?
    tell us please ??
    and why you dont beleive that muhammed is a prophet of God ? God sent him as a prophet to us ?

  8. #28
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    where are you colleague ? we hope that you're doing fine,

    so let us hear from you,

    I had some few comments on your previous posts

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    Christianity demands strong and responsible characters that can bear criticism, that can cope with it, that are aware of criticism and humans’ failure.
    I think it's mandatory for everyone (regardless of their faith ) to be responsible & to have a flexible way of thinking .


    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    I have been introduced to this forum by her to discuss about problems of converting to Islam

    We are all ears ! Just tell us what do you think these "problems " are .



  9. #29
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    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    The Pope is catholic and as a evangelischer Protestant I do not accept him as my authority.


    I told several times here that the “Spirit” is not a God

    And I have never spoken about Buddhism


    One crucial difference between Islam and Christianity is the approach and I can see, that this causes inconvenience.

    In Christianity and I speak for my behalf the approach is human-oriented. We do not deny that there is a God, on the other hand there is no prove. But it is convenient to pretend there is a God and I can accept that. This following it depends on everybody’s personal attitude and opinion, what to think. Several people think of God as an absolute Creator, ok, why not and some people do admit doubts or they accept questions and are open to discuss essential questions.Christianity demands strong and responsible characters that can bear criticism, that can cope with it, that are aware of criticism and humans’ failure.

    Christianity in my belief is human-made and therefore religion is for humankind, not the other way round that religion is for a God. Christianity does not dictate any opinion or belief. The Christianity puts humankind in centre of our handling and dealing with problems. Christianity demands responsibility and maturity. I know this is too squishy for many people, but this is the origin for discussion, for thinking. Discussion and thinking depends on the humans in their surroundings in their time. This is requested. Thus the discussion should always centre about the humans and their problems. Christianity does not want blind followers, Christianity needs mature people who admit doubts, questions and discussions, criticism and failure.

    Following this you will seldom see me quoting from the Bible, because it is a pattern of how it could have been, but not how it must have been. In my eyes it is the same with the Koran. Many people argue with words or quotations of their Bible or Koran and I can accept it. But all you would quote mustnot be a prove, it can be or it is your belief.

    See clearly the difference, elevating the Bible or the Koran as a book from God, that is your belief but there is not any proof in it nor for it. To read and understand the Bible or Koran is interpretation and that is quite fine. As said before there is no proof.

    So if you want to call me an agnostic human, you might be right a little. But religion is not only believing in God religion in my eyes is about humans, about their life together and their problems and success. And this is the point where religion comes in the matter. To live together with other people, to arrange with other people, to accept them, to tolerate them, to respect them, to cope with them. For this rules are compulsory. I can accept that rules are religion-based, but not religion-centered.

    Education and surroundigns associated with culture, mentality this creates your approach to religion and values. These conditions let you evaluate the values, wether they be religious or not, but they have to correspond with human rights and needs.

    It is too private to mention it here in detail, but there were situations in my life when I behaved more a religious person than that persons, that call themselves Christians or Muslems.

    Thank you colleague for your statements ,

    It's been a week since your last visit to the forum ,

    so I'll summarize your last post .

    you admitted that there's no proof of god's existance in christianity.


    you said that in christianity :" it is convenient to pretend there is a God



    so all you gotta do, christians, is "just pretend "

    I'm sorry for that,


    you admitted that christianity
    &bible are human made
    ...Thank you colleague .
    ............................................................ ...........................................
    Christianity in its current form has nothing to do with God

    But

    still you refuse to leave christianity!

    to accept Islam or any religion other than christianity ....


    You said that moslems got no proof of Qoran's divinity.

    You're not asking , you're not waiting for an answer from us or anyone ..


    Thank you colleague for making everything clear .






  10. #30
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    Hello

    I have read your words about religions

    But I have a question


    Did you read the Qur'an?

    Qur'an component of a large book of 603 pages

    I hope that you read

    I brought you a video (SUR) of the Qur'an

    I hope that you hear and read the translation








    Thank you
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي
    عبورهـ سابقا

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