Salam Aleikom

آخـــر الـــمـــشـــاركــــات


مـواقـع شـقــيـقـة
شبكة الفرقان الإسلامية شبكة سبيل الإسلام شبكة كلمة سواء الدعوية منتديات حراس العقيدة
البشارة الإسلامية منتديات طريق الإيمان منتدى التوحيد مكتبة المهتدون
موقع الشيخ احمد ديدات تليفزيون الحقيقة شبكة برسوميات شبكة المسيح كلمة الله
غرفة الحوار الإسلامي المسيحي مكافح الشبهات شبكة الحقيقة الإسلامية موقع بشارة المسيح
شبكة البهائية فى الميزان شبكة الأحمدية فى الميزان مركز براهين شبكة ضد الإلحاد

يرجى عدم تناول موضوعات سياسية حتى لا تتعرض العضوية للحظر

 

       

         

 

    

 

 

    

 

Salam Aleikom

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Thread: Salam Aleikom

  1. #11
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    If our brother Abu Ali allowed me WE DON'T WORSHIP GOT CUZ HE NEEDS US , WE WORSHIP HIM CUZ WE NEED HIM,WE NEED HIS GIFTS ,WE NEED HIS MERCY WE NEED HIS SATISFACTION


    according to the Bible the un-Christian or the un-Jewish is just an animal

    Where is the human rights in Cursed is he who does the work of the LORD deceitfully
    And cursed is he who keeps back his sword from blood.
    JEREMIAH 48:10 (NEW KING JAMES VERSION)

    16 Samaria is held guilty,[i]
    For she has rebelled against her God.
    They shall fall by the sword,
    Their infants shall be dashed in pieces
    ,
    And their women with child ripped open.
    HOSEA 13:16 (NEW KING JAMES VERSION)

    This is just a simple gesture on human rights in the Bible applied by America in Iraq and Afghanistan

    best wishes
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي
    O en iyi ordu... Hey iyi-e
    Sen cesur... Seçin denizde bir
    Kalkan el... Dagger elinde
    Mystery Aloaadi hakkında... Hey iyi-e
    Eğer her şey... denizinde destekler
    Biz çağrı... Allahu Akbar
    Allah büyüktür... Allahu Akbar
    Bizim askeri edelim... Her zaman Muzafferabad

  2. #12
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    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post

    Yes, thank you for your welcome and enjoy our sharp, but fair, discussion


    I hope it won't be too sharp;

    Allah said:29|46|And argue not with the People of the Scripture unless it be in (a way) that is better, save with such of them as do wrong; and say: We believe in that which hath been revealed unto us and revealed unto you; our God and your God is One, and unto Him we surrender.

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post


    So now: medias in res, directly to the point:

    I stand for christianity in my belief, this means that I speak from my "evangelischem" point of view, as a Christian Protestant

    In our eyes religion is not neither an agenda neither a timetable
    From my point of view religion demands reponsability from the human
    what's wrong with agendas & timetables ?


    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post

    And why this?


    Yes, because it is true, religion is human-made This does not imply anything good or bad
    In christianity we notice this especially when we read a book like "misquoting Jesus " for Bart Ehrman " .


    but the concept of religion is totally different in Islam .

    In Arabic language religion (deen) means authority , faith, judgement ,submission ,recompense.

    Allah said:3|19|Lo! religion with Allah (is) The Surrender (to His will and guidance).



    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post

    My approach to religion is human, we all are not Christians, nor Muslems, nor of other religion, WE are HUMANS
    Allah said :49|13|O mankind! Lo! We have created you male and female, and have made you nations and tribes that ye may know one another. Lo! the noblest of you, in the sight of Allah, is the best in conduct. Lo! Allah is Knower, Aware.

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    Why the world, the nature and the humans are created, nobody knows, really nobody knows, so religion is a good measure to understand, to comprehend and also to cope with the fascination of creation
    I agree with you .

    Allah said :51|56|I created the jinn and humankind only that they might worship Me.

    Allah said :23|115|Deemed ye then that We had created you for naught, and that ye would not be returned unto Us?

    Allah said:6|165|He it is who hath placed you as viceroys of the earth and hath exalted some of you in rank above others, that He may try you by (the test of) that which He hath given you. Lo! Thy Lord is swift in prosecution, and lo! He is Forgiving, Merciful.


    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    You wrote God has created the world and created us to worship him and to live in this world by his teachings. If we do that we will be happy at life and after death

    According to my opinion this is wrong
    In contrary, this proves that religion is human-made
    It is a typically human trait to claim for God that he needs us to worship him
    If I were a king, then it would be human to raise my self-esteem by my inferiors worshipping me
    If I am a public or private authority, then it would be my trait and need to be admired, to be accepted, to be popular

    How can we proclaim that God wants to be worshipped, this is typically human
    Yes, the world and the nature with human beings is fascinating This is true and nobody can deny it
    If somebody tells me, human’s duty is to worship this will make me think that God needs us humans and that is wrong
    Furthermore you write: and he is God who has no needs like humansExactly, so God does not need us
    I agree with you that Allah Almighty doesn't need us at all & that was stated in the Quran :

    29|6|And whosoever striveth, striveth only for himself, for lo! Allah is altogether Independent of (His) creatures.

    Hadith Qudsi :Narrated Abu-Dhar :The Prophet said that Allah said: O My slaves! I have forbidden injustice for Myself, so it is forbidden amongst you. So, do not be unjust to each other. O My slave! All of you are liable to go astray except the one whom I guide on the right path. So (always) seek guidance from Me, I will guide you. O My slave! All of you are hungry except the one whom I feed. So ask Me for food. I shall feed you. O My slave! All of you are naked except the one whom I make wear. So ask Me to make you wear and I shall make you wear. O My slave! You commit mistakes (sins) by day and night; and I forgive all the sins. So ask Me forgiveness, I shall forgive you (your sins). O My slaves! You will not attain harming Me so as to harm Me, and you will not attain benefiting Me so as to benefit Me. O My slaves! Were the first of you and the last of you, the human being of you and the jinn of you to be as pious as the most pious heart of any one of you, that would not increase My Kingdom anything. O My slaves! Were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as wicked as the most wicked heart of any one of you, that would not decrease My kingdom anything. O My slaves! Were the first of you, the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to rise up in any place and make a request to Me and I have to give every one what he requested, that would not decrease what I have anything more than a needle decreases the sea if it is put into it. O My slaves! Rather it is but your deeds which I will reckon for you, and then recompense for. So let, who finds good, praise Allah and let, who finds other than that, blame no one but himself.

    (This Hadith is sound and related by Muslim)



    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    More-over you write: The Christians also worship three Gods in one, and claim that Jesus is another god
    This is not correct, there is one God, the Father, Jesus, his Son and the Spirit, this is called Trinität
    why don't you just say that you believe in one God ?

    there's nothing mentioned in TNK about the trinity .

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    And on my behalf I do not worship, I believe or you can say I verify my responsibility in my daily life and I am the only one to be responsible
    I can understand why you don't worship for Jesus as he never claimed being someone to be worshipped .

    Mat 4:10 Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and himonly shalt thou serve.

    I won't comment on that verse .

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    As I said in the beginning Christianity is neither an agenda, neither a timetable and this is the evident difference between Christianity and Islam
    I disagree with you , we don't believe in "deity of Jesus " nor the" original sin" neither "the crucifiction & redemption " & lots of other differences .

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    Christianity does not want followers on its behalf, Christianity demands responsibility, maturity
    if christianity doesn't want followers , why sending missionaries all over the world ?

    even atheists need to be responsible &mature to go on in this life . Everyone needs to be responsible & mature .


    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    For some people this is a great problem They prefer having rules how to behave, but Christianity from the protestant point of view needs people to be mature, to assess from their own
    To follow rules doesn't mean that one can't or doesn't assess oneself .

    But the question is : Are these rules Divine ?

    if yes : one should follow .

    if not :one shouldn't .


    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    Unfortunately humans are egoistic and selfish, so we have always problems in policy, in economy, ecology, sociology, paedagogy and so on and so on until we come to religion, there we come to different opinions, believes also, so are humans
    But that doesn't mean that everyone is right .



    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    One last question in the end?

    Are Muslems better humans than Christians
    Are Christians better humans than Muslems
    Are Jewish better humans thanChristians or Muslems

    No, not at all,

    humans are equal all over the world
    There is no human preferred or discriminated, we all are human
    yes & that's what makes every mentally healthy adult responsible for his acts & choices in life .

    And peace will be for him who followeth right guidance.

    Last edited by الفضة; 19-11-2010 at 06:32 AM.

  3. #13
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    you are so welcome
    your problem is you treate relegions as an accessories. but islam take relegion as the important thing in the humain life. God said that those who beleive that jesus is the God are infidels.
    the prophet muhammed said *any christian who hear about me and he didn't beleive in me will not entre the paradise*
    so you should shose in this life so you can save'it in the other life .the truth is very very clear . you just have to search and use you head .

  4. #14
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    Thank you for your numerous comments and statements
    Unfortunately I cannot answer to every one, because it would take too much time Moreover I cannot answer only in one sentence

    First of all In Christianity there are not three Gods

    There is the only God, figured as the Father, then there is his Son Jesus and then there is the Spirit

    You are open to define what this means, spirit can be characterized as the message of humanity, being in all of us, preferably filled with ethical comprehension and recognition


    Second of all, I am a Christian (evangelischer Protestant) Our belief is open-minded and not narrow-minded to the Bible only, we are not bond to the Bible, because in our belief the Bible is not given nor written by God, but human-made

    This implies that the Bible is a book as a pattern of thinking, it suggests you advice, it suggests you proposals
    According to our moral, ethical view, our education, our knowledge we are free to think what we want, but we are responsible towards ourselves as well as towards other people

    Now to the central question, someone of you has put

    Why are humans created according to Christianity?

    Yes, this is a very complex question and as complex is the answer

    The answer depends on your approach

    A theologian would answer that humankind is created to exist and produce on earth associated with the problems that normally arise between humans and also acknowledging that there is a vis major, mostly called God

    A scientist would answer that humankind has the knowledge to exist on earth and to make use of all the science

    A sociologist would answer that you have the responsibility for yourself and for the society of humans

    There are more answers or you can choose to take a little or all of them, but in the end it is your own opinion.

    Regarding religion I confirm that thinking about humankind, nature and science you cannot be ignorant and you have to put questions. But the answers vary, from your point of view and so do religions also

    But you cannot claim that one answer is the only right one. Ok, you can pretend for your behalf to have found the one and only answer, but that is only your opinion


    As long as it is your opinion I accept it and I do not have any problems with or against that, but I cannot accept that some people proclaim to have found the one and only right answer
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

  5. #15
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    my freind..fo you think that we dont know christianity ??
    we know about christianity more than the pope..hhh .im kidding
    but we know a lot..
    we know that you worshiping the one God that he is holy trinity. but the question her is : did jesus said that ? in the gosples ?
    is the holy trinty exist in the bible ? did any one of the prophets of the old tastment speak about the holy trinity ?
    yes ot no ?
    look man.. we dont shose relegion coz its nice , we shose relegion coz its the truth
    in islam God said that people should think and use their minds to shose, not the heart .

  6. #16
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    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post


    Regarding religion I confirm that thinking about humankind, nature and science you cannot be ignorant and you have to put questions. But the answers vary, from your point of view and so do religions also

    But you cannot claim that one answer is the only right one. Ok, you can pretend for your behalf to have found the one and only answer, but that is only your opinion


    As long as it is your opinion I accept it and I do not have any problems with or against that, but I cannot accept that some people proclaim to have found the one and only right answer

    well ,


    I know that you keep saying that you're an evangelic protestant but these words seem Agnostic to me .


    I agree with you that people are different in so many things ,some of them are uncultured , illiterate or ignorant ,disabled, mentally -ill ......& so on

    but in Islam we're talking about those who have the knowledge & keep ignoring Allah's commandements.



    7|33|Say: My Lord forbiddeth only indecencies, such of them as are apparent and such as are within, and sin and wrongful oppression, and that ye associate with Allah that for which no warrant hath been revealed, and that ye tell concerning Allah that which ye know not.


    39|9|Is he who payeth adoration in the watches of the night, prostrate and standing, bewaring of the Hereafter and hoping for the mercy of his Lord, (to be accounted equal with a disbeliever)? Say (unto them, O Muhammad): Are those who know equal with those who know not? But only men of understanding will pay heed.



    the Prophet (saws) said: "The pen is raised for three groups [of people]—(that is, they will not be responsible for their actions): the insane until they become sane, those who are sleeping until they awaken, and the young until they reach the age of puberty."

    Related by Ahmad, Abu Dawud, and at-Tirmidhi.




    We believe that Allah sent his messengers all over the world

    10|47|And for every nation there is a messenger. And when their messenger cometh (on the Day of Judgment) it will be judged between them fairly, and they will not be wronged.

    17|15|Whosoever goeth right, it is only for (the good of) his own soul that he goeth right, and whosoever erreth, erreth only to its hurt. No laden soul can bear another's load. We never punish until We have sent a messenger


    please let's focus on Islam & Christianity
    we're not gonna discuss Buddhism here,
    Islam denies that Jesus is son of God
    We deny that the Holy Spirit is God..

    Last edited by الفضة; 20-11-2010 at 04:27 AM.

  7. #17
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    اخوتي الكرام
    هذا الضيف الكريم تفكيره مختلف.. هو يتعامل مع الدين و كأنه ليس هنلك اي دين حقيقي حسب كلامه هو . و يتعامل مع الدين و كأنه مكمل و ليس اساسيا و لا يسعى من خلاله لا جنة او لنار . الكثير من الناس في الغرب هكذا . هم يبحثون عن شيء يملأون به فراغهم الروحي و في نفس الوقت يمارسون شهواتهم .
    سوف تجدون مشكلة كبيرة معه. لكن يجب ا\ن تركزوا فقط على المعاني الجميلة في الاسلام و الروحانيات الاسلامية . ركزوا ركزوا على الروحانيات...
    .....
    as i know muslim women should not be married to a non-muslim man.
    a im right ??

  8. #18
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    In the name of Allah the Compassionate, the Merciful

    I really regard what you're saying Mr. German ... but you must know that because people are following what the think is the right and do not follow God's orders or don't accept his guidance to hem they make mistakes and get far away from the right choices ....
    In Islam God never force you to do something you don't want to .. but God tells you the right way to follow... if you don't accept it then you will bear the responsibility for your choice ...

    I want to ask you a question... do you love your wife??? if so let suppose that she will choose to follow God's way ...can you force her not to do?
    you can't ... because she has the right to worship one God and to do what God wants her to do ...

    there are many differences between you and her ... she follows God but you follow your own mind ... that's why i advice you to think more and more ... all of us will be judged in the judgment day and those who deny God's path will be punished so think of the matter again and again ... Islam is the only way for your salvation ...

    we can prove to you that Christianity is totally wrong ...and we have clear evidences that you can't deny ...

    I really pray to God to help you and choose the right way
    Last edited by ابو علي الفلسطيني; 20-11-2010 at 06:05 PM.
    سَلامٌ مِنْ صَبا بَرَدى أَرَقُّ ....ودمعٌ لا يُكَفْكَفُ يا دمشقُ

    ومَعْذِرَةَ اليراعةِ والقوافي .... جلاءُ الرِّزءِ عَنْ وَصْفٍ يُدَّقُ

    وذكرى عن خواطرِها لقلبي .... إليكِ تلفّتٌ أَبداً وخَفْقُ

  9. #19
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    السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
    جزاكم الله خيراً إخواني وأخواتي على مجهوداتكم العظيمة
    جعله الله في موازين أعمالكم
    وهدى الله ضيفنا

    Welcome German.Bergheim to our forum
    Hoping that we can exchange information in a mild way included with the evidence

    And we should be honest with ourselves and others when we discuss the religious issues

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    married with my wife from Morocco and of course she is Muslim
    It's not allowed for a Muslim woman to get married to a non-Muslim man

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    according to my opinion
    My decent addressee,
    we don't discuss religions through personal points of view, but through evidence first, logic second ....

    The sanity of people is different from one to another. i.e. you have your own way of thinking, and I have my own one . So, which one is correct?!!!!
    a psycho thinks that he is the only rational person and all the others are mad!!!

    So, please stick to evidence


    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    according to my opinion humans are humans independant from their religion whether christian or Muslim or any other religion
    Let the Bible speak:

    Lu 10:25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
    Lu 10:26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
    Lu 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
    Lu 10:28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.


    Another verse
    Lu 18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
    Lu 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
    Lu 18:20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
    Lu 18:21 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
    Lu 18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

    It means there are many specific things you have to do to live inherit eternal life!!!!
    You are not free to do whatever you like, or you will not inherit eternal life!!!

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    Thus the question turns up: why converting to Islam
    Let's think together:
    This life is as a game!!!
    Every game has its own roles which you must follow and apply, otherwise, you will lose it !!!!
    Then you learn from your mistakes and step by step you can enhance your performance and improve your standard

    But the game life is just once to win or lose!!!
    No other chance will be provided to you

    That's why we have to be honest with ourselves first and with others second

    So, what about if Islam is the true religion and you died and realized that it was a must to follow Islam, but you didn't!!!

    As God said in the Holly Quran
    3|85|And whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allah) it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter.

    So, what is the fate waiting for you?!!!!
    Simply, the hellfire!

    Islam founded the whole life to people in both transactions and worshipping
    Islam disciplines humans outwardly and inwardly, and draws the frame that must be followed, whether in your transaction for yourself, or your parents, or your spouse, or your children, and neighbors, and your enemies, your opponents and ... And protects peoples' rights and threatening all those who abuse the rights of others ...etc.

    One more thing,
    Have you seen any of Jesus' Miracle?
    You just heard about them!!!
    You have no Miracles left from him!!!
    So, what you heared might be wrong as there is no clear direct evidence that there was a prophet called Jesus!!!

    We have the best lasting Miracle ever which includes the evidence of Jesus!!!

    I mean the Holy Quran which no body can bring to life a similar book or even one chapter Quran-alike

    2|23|And if ye are in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto Our slave (Muhammad), then produce a sura or the like thereof, and call your witnesses beside Allah if ye are truthful.

    Do not be in a hurry!!!
    Do not say I have the evidence in the Bible, as my following question will be:
    Which Bible?!!!
    Which version?!!!
    Which translation?!!!
    Of which Christian sect?!!!
    Before voting or after it?!!!

    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    Humanity comes first
    Islam respects humanity, and draws the ideal picture of humanity
    So, Religion and humanity complement each other, not oppose one another


    Quote
    Quote Originally Posted by German.Bergheim View Post
    noone has the right to judge about other people to stipulate any belief
    If we have the criteria with evidence, we can judge easily










    من هنا نبدأ ... وفي الجنة نلتقي
    إن شاء الله

    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

  10. #20
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    The Pope is catholic and as a evangelischer Protestant I do not accept him as my authority.


    I told several times here that the “Spirit” is not a God

    And I have never spoken about Buddhism


    One crucial difference between Islam and Christianity is the approach and I can see, that this causes inconvenience.

    In Christianity and I speak for my behalf the approach is human-oriented. We do not deny that there is a God, on the other hand there is no prove. But it is convenient to pretend there is a God and I can accept that. This following it depends on everybody’s personal attitude and opinion, what to think. Several people think of God as an absolute Creator, ok, why not and some people do admit doubts or they accept questions and are open to discuss essential questions.Christianity demands strong and responsible characters that can bear criticism, that can cope with it, that are aware of criticism and humans’ failure.

    Christianity in my belief is human-made and therefore religion is for humankind, not the other way round that religion is for a God. Christianity does not dictate any opinion or belief. The Christianity puts humankind in centre of our handling and dealing with problems. Christianity demands responsibility and maturity. I know this is too squishy for many people, but this is the origin for discussion, for thinking. Discussion and thinking depends on the humans in their surroundings in their time. This is requested. Thus the discussion should always centre about the humans and their problems. Christianity does not want blind followers, Christianity needs mature people who admit doubts, questions and discussions, criticism and failure.

    Following this you will seldom see me quoting from the Bible, because it is a pattern of how it could have been, but not how it must have been. In my eyes it is the same with the Koran. Many people argue with words or quotations of their Bible or Koran and I can accept it. But all you would quote mustnot be a prove, it can be or it is your belief.

    See clearly the difference, elevating the Bible or the Koran as a book from God, that is your belief but there is not any proof in it nor for it. To read and understand the Bible or Koran is interpretation and that is quite fine. As said before there is no proof.

    So if you want to call me an agnostic human, you might be right a little. But religion is not only believing in God religion in my eyes is about humans, about their life together and their problems and success. And this is the point where religion comes in the matter. To live together with other people, to arrange with other people, to accept them, to tolerate them, to respect them, to cope with them. For this rules are compulsory. I can accept that rules are religion-based, but not religion-centered.

    Education and surroundigns associated with culture, mentality this creates your approach to religion and values. These conditions let you evaluate the values, wether they be religious or not, but they have to correspond with human rights and needs.

    It is too private to mention it here in detail, but there were situations in my life when I behaved more a religious person than that persons, that call themselves Christians or Muslems.
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

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Salam Aleikom

Salam Aleikom