let we answer about Abrogated verses of the Quran

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let we answer about Abrogated verses of the Quran

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Thread: let we answer about Abrogated verses of the Quran

  1. #1
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    Default let we answer about Abrogated verses of the Quran

    بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
    السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته
    To all my brothers and sisters i would like to share this topic with so we can give complet answer enshala....
    there is men on face book said this
    .....

    John Smith :I guess you guys haven't heared of Abrogated verses of the Quran or in other words canceled verses of the quran. I will tell you the way it works, the earlier verses of the quran are abrogated by the later verses of the quran, ask your shieks about it.
    and i asked him to give me proof so he give me thes verese

    John Smith ‎002:106
    Nothing of our revelation (even a single verse) do we abrogate or cause be forgotten, but we bring (in place) one better or the like thereof. Knowest thou not that Allah is Able to do all things?

    016:101
    And when We put a revelation... in place of (another) revelation, - and Allah knoweth best what He revealeth - they say: Lo! thou art but inventing. Most of them know not

    John Smith Sura - 2 The Heifer( Al-Baqarah)
    http://www.submission.org/suras/sura2.html

    An Nahl
    Surah 16. The Bee
    ...http://www.muslimaccess.com/quraan/arabic/016.asp
    so we want give him answer inshala......... and i bring this topic here becuse if this happend with any one so he or she can faind the answer here........ an I know that there is many Abrogated verses of the bible....... ill tray to put it inshala.... later on

    jazakom alah kher
    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

    اللهم احفظ المسجد الاقصى وارزقنا صلاة فيه

  2. #2
    Authentic Man's Avatar
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    السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

    Thank you sister for your efforts
    May Allah bless you
    ..........

    Let me start with:
    M't 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?


    Any how, the person who wrote these words is just a yes-man

    He wrote what he heared without even uderstanding the significance of it; or knowing that he has the same issue of abrogated verses in the Bible!!!!!


    So, I'm answering his question from many points of view

    1- What is the meaning of abrogation
    2- What is the significance of it
    3- The abrogation in the Bible
    4- Is abrogation against God's knowledge?


    ____________________

    1- What is the meaning of abrogation

    Simply speaking, it means changing some laws according to a specific states or a reasons, or for a graual legislation..

    So, the abrogation was only for applying rules,
    It was not for stories, news, information or good manners
    just for applying rules...

    ------------------------------

    2- What is the significance of it

    I- The gradual legislation:
    for example, Arab used to drink wine more than water, so wine banned gradually,

    The first verse mentioned for wine didn't ban it completely, but gave a hint that it is not preferable ...

    16|67|And of the fruits of the date palm, and grapes, whence ye derive strong drink and (also) good nourishment. Lo! therein, is indeed a portent for people who have sense.
    using "and: gave a hint that wine is not of the good nourishment


    Then it clarified its harmes are more than its benefits:

    2|219|They question thee about strong drink and games of chance. Say: In both is great sin, and (some) utility for men; but the sin of them is greater than their usefulness. And they ask thee what they ought to spend. Say: That which is superfluous. Thus Allah maketh plain to you (His) revelations, that haply ye may reflect--


    Then the following verse to ban drinking it before prayers:

    4|43|O ye who believe! Draw not near unto prayer when ye are drunken, till ye know that which ye utter,

    Till worshippers had become familiar with leaving wine all day as the needed to pray 5 times...


    Finally, The last verse whish forbade it completely

    5|90|O ye who believe! Strong drink and games of chance and idols and divining arrows are only an infamy of Satan's handiwork. Leave it aside in order that ye may succeed.

    Here in this example, it was a kind of habituation to Arab to leave it step by step... So. the last verse abrogated the previous ones ....

    --------

    II - Lightened burden

    For example,

    He gave them an order to fight their number multiplied by 10 when they were really strong,

    8|65|O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there be of you twenty steadfast they shall overcome two hundred, and if there be of you a hundred steadfast they shall overcome a thousand of those who disbelieve, because they (the disbelievers) are a folk without intelligence.



    Then with passing of time, they became weaker, so he Lightened their burden:

    8|66|Now hath Allah lightened your burden, for He knoweth that there is weakness in you. So if there be of you a steadfast hundred they shall overcome two hundred, and if there be of you a thousand (steadfast) they shall overcome two thousand by permission of Allah. Allah is with the steadfast.

    So, why?
    Couldn't it be from the beginning?!!!

    No !!!!!
    Because both eras were different
    and how can you know His mercy if you do not know his previous heavy order?!!!

    ------------------

    III- To have a better verse:

    For example,
    the punishment for a girl who commited adultery was confining her to the house until death, but it was abrogated with 100 lashes only.

    4|15|As for those of your women who are guilty of lewdness, call to witness four of you against them. And if they testify (to the truth of the allegation) then confine them to the houses until death take them or (until) Allah appoint for them a way (through new legislation).


    And he gave a hint that the punishment could be changed with another one.

    24|2|The adulterer and the adulteress, scourge ye each one of them (with) a hundred stripes. And let not pity for the twain withhold you from obedience to Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a party of believers witness their punishment.

    -----------------------

    IV- To present the same meaning
    For example,
    The punishment of old married people when they commit adultery, is killing them by srones - like the old testament-
    but the verse was deleted from the Holy Quran , howerver the punshment wasn't

    This is why God didn't like those old people feel sad when they recite this verse, and with deleting it they feel that God is so mercy kind and considerate with them. That's why old people when they are about to face their ends, they need to feel with the mercy of God and a verse like this may make them hopeless in his mercy...

    ----------------------------

    V- It's a kind of inimitability

    God Challenged all people to create even one Sorah of it, but they couldn't. God changed many verses in terms of styles and rules in the Holy Quran , though.
    However nobody could write even a short Sorah like it
    It was clearly shown that God is Able to do all things ...

    Now
    Is it not allowed to God to change what he wants according to his wise?!!!!!!!
    -------------------------------------

    VI - To examine Faith commitment

    To unmask those people who assumed that they were right worshippers, however they weren't !!!

    -----------------------------------


    To be continued with the other two points:
    3- The abrogation in the Bible
    4- Is abrogation against God's knowledge?
    Last edited by Authentic Man; 03-08-2010 at 09:28 AM.
    من هنا نبدأ ... وفي الجنة نلتقي
    إن شاء الله

    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

  3. #3
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    3The abrogation in the Bible


    Let's start with what Jesus said

    M't 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.


    And said
    M't 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
    M't 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.


    M't 5:31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
    M't 5:32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery:

    M't 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
    M't 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

    So, which kind of change was it?
    In the past there were some orders, but Jesus changed them,didn't he?

    Do not say he fulfilled, not changed, simply because to fulfill some thing means to make it perfect and ready to be used forever!!!!
    What he changed could be used nowadays?
    If I slap your cheek, will you turn to me the other one?!!!!!

    So, isn't it abrogation to change the old testament to a worse order?!!!!!


    Let's complete

    M't 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
    M't 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
    M't 5:20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

    The verses show clearly that Jesus orderd to follow the commandments and who breaks any of them is the least in the kingdom of heaven.......


    And he said
    M't 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
    M't 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
    M't 23:3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

    He orderd again to follow it and not to be like Pharisees as they say what they don't do ......

    M't 19:17 but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

    He told us that the gate to life is to keep the commandments ....

    But Pual abrogated all the previous verses
    Ro 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

    With this verse Pual obrogated the whole Christianity and Judaism!!!!!!
    Forget about law!!!!!!
    Follow nothing!!!!!
    He opened the gate to do whatever you like!!!!!!!!!

    Jesus ordered to keep the commandments , but Pual ordered not to!!!!!!!!!!!

    It's not abrogation, it's The Christianty destruction!!!!!!

    However, the simple fact that Jesus did not utter a word in his life, stating that human freedom from liability for its work as long as the belief that Christ paid the price in advance and on his behalf, if true, it would have been tantamount to a license for chaos, social, crime and moral decay and corruption, but that Paul uttered all insolence!!!!!

    Moreover, Pual said
    Ro 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

    What a result he reached?!!!!
    Sins brought much more grace.!!!!!!!!!!!
    !!!!!! law brought offence

    This means that the only result of a law should make a lot of sins according to his theory, therefore, concluded Paul said:
    Ro 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.


    In contrary, James wrote in his letter
    Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

    Jas 2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

    Jas 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.


    So, faith with no work is useless!!!

    This is against what Pual said!!!
    Is it abrogation or killing the pillars of Christianty?!!!!




    Paul admits that he is a liar!!
    Ro 3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?

    So who abrogate the laws of Christianty was a liar!!!

    To put it in a nutshell,
    Jesus ordered to keep the law, but Pual abrogated it...
    Abrogation in Christianty was for worse law
    Abrogation in Christianty made by a liar

    To be continued with
    4- Is abrogation against God's knowledge?
    من هنا نبدأ ... وفي الجنة نلتقي
    إن شاء الله

    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

  4. #4
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    4- Is abrogation against God's knowledge?

    Jesus changed many orders of the old testement as I mentioned above .....
    Why?

    Is it against God's knowledge to order something and change it later?

    The Holy Quran revealed during 23 years according to events , time and the general state - not only one day - that is to say, the changes happened to adapt and prepare Muslims psychologically and mentally to accept the divine order...

    Till God said 5|3 " This day have I perfected your religion for you and completed My favor unto you, and have chosen for you as religion AL- ISLAM. Whoso is forced by hunger, not by will, to sin: (for him) lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful".

    So, it was the time for completing the religion when no change can never be done .....

    So, was it a kind of ignorance? or a kind of the devine wisdom?

    The abrogation happened in the Holy Quran was done by God , the Prophet or through a vote?!!!
    It was all done by God,

    Unlike the Bible obrogation happened by Pual and a vote!!!!

    Where are the other thousands of biblical scripts?
    They were burnt !!! through a vote !!!!

    Why does the number of chapters vary from sect to another?!!!
    and who did delete them from the different ones?!!!

    Was it Jesus? Pual? or through a vote who abrogated?!!!!
    It was thtough a Vote

    Exactly like The belief which was decided by (318) bishops gathered in Venice in the reign of Constantine in 325 AD In 381 AD, increased by the following: (Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three persons and three faces and three properties of uniformity in the triangulation in the standardization of a single entity in three persons, one God and one substance nature one).


    To sum up,
    Abrogation in Quran was a Divine order happened - during the prophet's life not after as the bible - for wise reasons as I mentioned before....

    God does have the complete choice to do whatever he likes

    Unlike the Bible which was distorted by some people for their personal interests and whims


    Best Regards
    Last edited by Authentic Man; 15-09-2010 at 06:11 PM.
    من هنا نبدأ ... وفي الجنة نلتقي
    إن شاء الله

    نقره لتكبير أو تصغير الصورة ونقرتين لعرض الصورة في صفحة مستقلة بحجمها الطبيعي

let we answer about Abrogated verses of the Quran

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let we answer about Abrogated verses of the Quran

let  we answer about  Abrogated verses of the Quran