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Am I to take from this excerpt that prophet Mohammed decided that prostration was for Allah alone at a later date?
Incorrect , it is Allah the almighty who decided so . And he knows best of the nature of mankind and knows it is for the best .
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Did Allah change his mind about whom should be prostrating to whom? I'm not sure what to take from that.
You should keep in mind that in Islam , Allah doesn't do or order something and then change it because he - exalted he is - found out the latter is better than the first , rather , it's because he chooses what fits certain people of certain places and times . That's why it later became forbidden to marry one's sister , something I believe the Bible says as well .
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Doesn't really matter what you believe. We know the Bible as it stands is what it has always been and you have absolutely no proof otherwise.
I could simply say "I have proof" but as said before , this isn't the subject right now .
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I'm not at all sure what a jinn is or why they exist. Am I to assume they are a different creation entirely from humans and angels? What purpose do they serve?
I know for certain that they are tested as well as humans . In regard to their purpose , wither I personally know or not doesn't matter because I do know that Allah is the most wise .
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Well.. I will leave you to explain what exactly a jinn is and what purpose it or they serve. Maybe that's also another topic for another thread.
I don't think it requires a whole thread so I'll make it short .
While angels are created from light and humans are created from clay-sand-mud , Jinns are created from fire . They have a free will and thus are judge the same as us ...... well , that's about all I have on my mind right now . If you want specific information , just ask .
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That's frankly ridiculous.. An animal has a capacity for learning behaviours... Some are very adept at it. To say they have no mind for thought process makes no sense. A level of intelligence needed to allow for learning behaviours is evidence for some kind of "mind".
We seem to differ on what we mean by "mind" . The point is that animals have a very limited intelligence . Still though , even animals glorify the almighty and exalt him :
17:44 The seven heavens and the earth and whatever is in them exalt Him. And there is not a thing except that it exalts [ Allah ] by His praise, but you do not understand their [way of] exalting. Indeed, He is ever Forbearing and Forgiving.
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In regards to choosing falsehood that's a matter of opinion for someone's falsehood is another's truth.
NOT , an excuse . If so , none would be judged at all . Both mind and the good nature - Fitrah - lead people to truth . Only those who follow the ill desire would ignore the signs when they see them . And if you believe what you just wrote , why on Earth do you preach your religion ?
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I rather think it is dependant on the persons soul as how they are judged. Not weather they are willing or able to accept or not prophet Mohammed as the last prophet.
Missing the point here . As for the soul , Allah says :
91:7 And [by] the soul and He who proportioned it 8 And inspired it [with discernment of] its wickedness and its righteousness, 9 He has succeeded who purifies it, 10 And he has failed who instills it [with corruption].
And as for accepting prophet Muhammad peace upon him , I'm sensing skeptism on your part . Like the rest of prophets , we believe in him being sent from Allah , peace upon them all . Also keep in mind that Allah never wrongs anyone .
18:49 And the record [of deeds] will be placed [open], and you will see the criminals fearful of that within it, and they will say, "Oh, woe to us! What is this book that leaves nothing small or great except that it has enumerated it?" And they will find what they did present [before them]. And your Lord does injustice to no one.
So wither it's a teenager on their puberty , an insane person , a person who had the message of Islam presented in a wrong way , rest assured , Allah will judged each accordingly and he never does injustice to anyone .
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I mentioned vegetarians because mankind was first created vegetarian..
That's your ...
... fair enough .
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Maybe you do not have that level of information available to you in the Quran.
Maybe not in Quran but in Sunnah . That's all in Islam . Sacrifises can only be done with camels , cows , or goats and sheep . I might be inaccurate about the last two because frankly , I'm not sure if "Ghanam" includes one of them or both .
So it's a no brainer that you can't do so with a chicken . Or with non livestock for the matter .
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God decided when mankind could use animals for food..
Alright , back on track . The whole reason this started is because you don't see it acceptable to kill something with a soul for food . I presented our view in Islam . That's quiet enough .
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Islam states a lot of things about Christianity that actually have no basis at all in Christianity... Just someone's misconception about it. Please desist with this nonsense about the Bible being altered.. Or bring on your proof of what you claim.. And if you are honest and read those suras that muslims fondly quote in support of this idea in truth you will know that they do not claim the Torah or the Gospel was changed. In fact I don't think the Gospel is mentioned at all.
It seems that each time I mention your doctrine , I touch a nerve . It's so sensetive that you'd turn blind for crystal clear signs of Quran and crystal clear narrations about the subject . The people of the book corrupting the message is a given and a no brainer among Muslims . Wither that's correct or not is a different subject for another thread . Still , I'll bring you the signs again :
2:75 Do you covet [the hope, O believers], that they would believe for you while a party of them
used to hear the words of Allah and then distort the Torah after they had understood it while they were knowing?
4:46
Among the Jews are those who distort words from their [proper] usages and say, "We hear and disobey" and "Hear but be not heard" and "Ra'ina," twisting their tongues and defaming the religion. And if they had said [instead], "We hear and obey" and "Wait for us [to understand]," it would have been better for them and more suitable. But Allah has cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not, except for a few.
5:13 So for their breaking of the covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard.
They distort words from their [proper] usages and have forgotten a portion of that of which they were reminded. And you will still observe deceit among them, except a few of them. But pardon them and overlook [their misdeeds]. Indeed, Allah loves the doers of good.
5:41 O Messenger, let them not grieve you who hasten into disbelief of those who say, "We believe" with their mouths, but their hearts believe not, and from among the Jews. [They are] avid listeners to falsehood, listening to another people who have not come to you.
They distort words beyond their [proper] usages, saying "If you are given this, take it; but if you are not given it, then beware." But he for whom Allah intends fitnah - never will you possess [power to do] for him a thing against Allah . Those are the ones for whom Allah does not intend to purify their hearts. For them in this world is disgrace, and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment.
Ibn `Abbas said, "Why do you ask the people of the scripture about anything while your Book (Qur'an) which has been revealed to Allah's Messenger (ﷺ) is newer and the latest? You read it pure, undistorted and unchanged, and Allah has told you that
the people of the scripture (Jews and Christians) changed their scripture and distorted it, and wrote the scripture with their own hands and said, 'It is from Allah,' to sell it for a little gain.
So who knows our doctrine better , the entire Islamic nation through history starting from the companions , or you ? I thought we've already gone through this , let's not start it again because that's just ridiculous and absurd . If just the claim that the people of the book altered the message gets you worked up like that , what would happen in a conversation about the proof for it ?
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You know for sure that the Torah and the Gospel were in wide circulation in the sixth century along with a whole host of gnostic works and folk tales.
In Arabic ?! Do I need to remind you he couldn't write or read ? And when you make the claim he heard it from someone , Allah himself answers you and the pagans who made this slander a millenia and half ago :
16:103 And We certainly know that they say, "It is only a human being who teaches the Prophet." The tongue of the one they refer to is foreign, and this Qur'an is [in] a clear Arabic language.
And I don't know how on Earth would someone just take thing he hears on the fly and "adds" them to his message while avoiding the everything that's false !
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Was he not well travelled with his wife's Khadja's business?
Oh ! So you're just assuming that he heard these folklores on the fly as he was travelling ! Also , here's a thing , he hasn't been anywhere outside the peninsula . You kept talking about proof for the corruption - another subject - yet here you are making allegations out of thin air .
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The wife whose Nestorian Christian cousin knew and spoke with prophet Mohammed.
http://www.islamweb.net/emainpage/ar...-christians-ii
Also , he died shortly after the revelation . Islam was revealed through 23 years !
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]The rest of your post does not warrant a response as it is no more than personal vitriol against Burninglight. Which I would have thought you would have been above.. It's a shame that we can't agree to disagree without recourse to unpleasantness. [/QUOTE]
I thought you said one's falsehood is another's truth . You don't seem to see anything wrong with his method of flooding the thread and the constant slandering , but I do . If he just acts more professionaly and stops trying to force his personal - and comletely baseless - opinions , he'll find a different treatment . Each situation is acted upon differently , that's a given .
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please reconsider what you say here. It is grossly offensive and no Christian has ever thought thus of Lord Jesus.... You should know that!!
?!
Either I chose wrong words when I translated from Arabic to English , or you differ with the Orthodox Christians of Egypt we're dealing with because that's what they say . They say that the human contained the divine being one with it - or something nearly - . So honestly , if you have a problem , you should be sovling it with them .
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Animals have minds and are accountable to God and man
Already addressed . And once again , that's your belief .
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I never said your prophet made divine claims! It seems you are wrapped in emotion friend.
Pot calling kettle black .
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I never claimed Jesus was half human and half God. This is another Islamic misconception or just your misconception.
Either me not choosing proper words at translation or Catholic and Orthodox - etc - differing among each other .
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God cannot be understood using His creation in the form number sequence. We can only understand what god reveals to us by faith.
So , blind faith in short . Here you are talking about monothesim and slandering at Islam basing your slanders on ignoarnce of the testimony . You claim monotheism to yourselves and say you worship 1 . And now when I tell you about the equation , all of a sudden it isn't possible to understand ?! Indeed , creatures can't comprehend the true nature of Allah , still , we know he's one , perfect , and has no partners .
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You are repeating yourself. I never said your prophet made those claims. Go back and reread carefully and cool down.
So let me get this straight : You realize we don't claim any divine attributes to the prophet peac upon him and you STILL have the nerve say we worship him with a straight face ?!
U mad bro ? I won't get into the subject at the time , the video was just to make you get of your high horse .
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I am not meaning to insult. I just all it the way I truthfully see it. Unlike you, I don't attack the OP
While I may not be the best of my fellow members at conversations and don't have as much pateince as some of them , I do address your points .
And when I "attack" the OP (What's that ?) , I'm attacking your method .
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I have a mind to tell truth too. Humans and animals both go into the sand after death. From dust we were made and to dust we return. Besides we are referring to living humans and animals not what happens after death. Humans are never below in value.
You missed the point . I'm talking about the final day . On that day , animals return even once more to sand while the people of hell are imprisoned .
Originally Posted by نصير الدين
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