What do we learn from Jacobs fight with God

[pandora]

I have seen that many muslims find this account of Jacobs "battle" with God a difficult subject and do not see why it is in the Bible or what lesson we are to learn from it.. I thought I would explain. There is some discussion on weather the battle was spiritual or an actual physical contact. We are taught that Jacob had an anger or inner struggle within him from birth, deceiving his brothers and was full of fear and anxiety. There existed an enmity between himself and his brother Esau all his life. He comes to a realisation that his struggle is not against Esau as man but rather against God himself. Before God can use Jacob in his plan as the father of the Israelite nation, Jacob must have a change of heart.


Do we take it as a spiritual battle? Later in the Old Testament the Prophet Hosea tells of the life of Jacob, saying of his struggle started even in the womb with his brother and when he became a man he fought with God and won. At Bethel he met God face to face, and God spoke to him. It seems clear that we are meant to interpret that the "man or angel" was God himself. This may seem strange to believe but there are many occasions in the Old Testament that God spoke with his people...one has to remember that this was the time that God was laying down the rules about how his people should live. As I believe God is all powerful I do not question his methods. we also have to believe it was indeed a physical encounter and not spiritual because Jacob was left with a physical wound...a permanent limp.


You may well ask the question at this point... "but surely God is all powerful he could so easy defeat Jacob in a blink of an eye"? Well.. True, yet God matched Jacob's strength but did not overpower him, so that the struggle could continue. Though God could obviously defeat Jacob at any time, the extended battle was somehow important to Jacob's spiritual development. When at daybreak the "man"/ God is ready to discontinue the wrestling match, he simply touches Jacob's hip and it is over. The lesson for us here is easy to understand...and everything in the Bible is a lesson for us to learn from, as I expect you take the same such lessons from the Quran.


So often in life are we in the midst of a struggle and praying for God to end it, only to find that He allows the struggle to continue... If you've ever been in a situation like this, wishing for something hard for you to be made easy or just go away, you also know that it is when we have to struggle for something and succeed we learn the greatest lesson and grow ourselves as a person. This is why God allowed Jacob to wrestle all night and why He leaves us in our trials, often far beyond what we think we can tolerate. But in His mercy, he does eventually reach down, and with "one touch" end the struggle. The fact that we may bear a scar, as Jacob did in his resulting limp, serves to remind us of His rescue and provision.


When at last the wrestling has subsided, the "man" asks Jacob what his name is. Of course He knew what Jacob's name was, but Jacob needed to come to terms with what his name meant. When he states his name, which means "the grasper" or "the deceiver", he is admitting who he is. His name is then changed to Israel, which means "he struggles with God" or "God prevails". He has had a fundamental shift in his relationship with God and in his concept of himself. He is ready to move into the Promised Land and into his role as the father of God's holy people.


So the lesson to take from Jacobs struggle.. God is with us always bad times and good. He can end the bad times easy if He wished..but our struggles to overcome them make us better and stronger.

Peace and blessings.

[محمد سني 1989]

Quote

As I believe God is all powerful I do not question his methods. we also have to believe it was indeed a physical encounter and not spiritual because Jacob was left with a physical wound...a permanent limp.


You may well ask the question at this point... "but surely God is all powerful he could so easy defeat Jacob in a blink of an eye"? Well.. True, yet God matched Jacob's strength but did not overpower him, so that the struggle could continue. Though God could obviously defeat Jacob at any time, the extended battle was somehow important to Jacob's spiritual development. When at daybreak the "man"/ God is ready to discontinue the wrestling match, he simply touches Jacob's hip and it is over. The lesson for us here is easy to understand...and everything in the Bible is a lesson for us to learn from, as I expect you take the same such lessons from the Quran.





So the lesson to take from Jacobs struggle.. God is with us always bad times and good. He can end the bad times easy if He wished..but our struggles to overcome them make us better and stronger.

Peace and blessings.

This was the only section which I think had an actual DIRECT ANSWER . The rest was just claims and smokescreens and just turning around the facts with individual interpritation that does not coincide with the text nor with the traditional known interpritation : first : you said that we do not question god's decesion , let me be clear this is a passage from the bible a book where all muslims believe have been manipulated so this kind of explanation only applies to christians, where you say the bible said so so its true and you can't question it !!!!!

Second : This had nothing to do with spirituality , Jacob was already a prophet , he was already blessed by his father issac so this kind of spirituality ( if I should call it like that ) does not serve the purpose :
26 Then the man said, “Let me go, for the dawn is breaking.” “I will not let you go,” Jacob replied, “unless you bless me.” 27 The man asked him, “What is your name?” He answered, “Jacob.” 28 “No longer will your name be Jacob,” the man told him, “but Israel, because you have fought with God and with men and have prevailed.”
So according to this the blessing only came by Jacob's black mail , and I really do not see the spirituality in black mail!!!

Third You said god can do anything , yes that is true but it does not appeal to his mighty status such a discription!!! A king can do anything in his empire for example but it does not go with his high respectabull status to say drink urine for example !!! one could argue he can do it I would say yes but it does not agree with his respectabull image

Fourth Your interpritation of the passage is wrong the battle ends with Jacob winning !!! and God pleading to Jacob to let go :
25 When the man saw that he could not defeat Jacob, he struck the socket of his hip so the socket of Jacob’s hip was dislocated while he wrestled with him.
26 Then the man said, “Let me go, for the dawn is breaking.” “I will not let you go,” Jacob replied, “unless you bless me.” 27 The man asked him, “What is your name?” He answered, “Jacob.” 28 “No longer will your name be Jacob,” the man told him, “but Israel, because you have fought with God and with men and have prevailed.”
29 Then Jacob asked, “Please tell me your name.” “Why do you ask my name?” the man replied. Then he blessed Jacob there. 30 So Jacob named the place Peniel, explaining, “Certainly I have seen God face to face and have survived.

So what can be said is that god wresselled with jacob and jacob won and wouldn't let go of him untill he blessed Jacob which he did and named him israel !!!!

peace

[Burninglight]

Quote

[SIZE=5]So what can be said is that god wresselled with jacob and jacob won and wouldn't let go of him untill he blessed Jacob which he did and named him israel !!!!

peace[/FONT][/FONT]

So does this story stumble you? Think of it this way, if you had a child you loved and you wrestle with him, couldn't you in your fatherly love be gentle and let him win to bless his heart?. God could of course have crushed Jacob and Jacob only gives his understand of his personal experience of the account. Couldn't you figure this out on your own? Friend, you are on a very slippery slope, because you are attacking and doubting books that your god Allah said he sent down for guidance and light to your prophet that never criticized the text of the Bible; he criticized people. Your prophet didn't have problems with the torah and injil you have, and we don't have theses mega doubts you clearly demonstrated regarding the Scripture that came before. We doubt what came after that contradicts what God sent at first as a corruption and an attempt to distort what God has promised is established forever in heaven and His central gospel message that the apostle Paul makes wonderfully clear to us. Thank God for Paul and peace be unto him.

peace

[محمد سني 1989]

Quote

So does this story stumble you? Think of it this way, if you had a child you loved and you wrestle with him, couldn't you in your fatherly love be gentle and let him win to bless his heart?. God could of course have crushed Jacob and Jacob only gives his understand of his personal experience of the account. Couldn't you figure this out on your own?
peace

The rest of the quote is a waste of time and nothing to do with the subject just the usual immotional crocodile tears strategy

I already addressed this concern in my previous response but as USUAL the ignore strategy :

here is the answer:

Third You said god can do anything , yes that is true but it does not appeal to his mighty status such a discription!!! A king can do anything in his empire for example but it does not go with his high respectabull status to say drink urine for example !!! one could argue he can do it I would say yes but it does not agree with his respectabull image